GDT: 11/14/2023 - Devils @ Jets, MSGSN, 8:00 pm

[nessus]

I always try to come up with the positives, but this is just getting tiring at this point. I liked what I saw from Holtz, too bad he couldn't cash in.

Some of the analytics guys used to talk about how many wins Jack's impact gets the team over the course of a season. It's always surprisingly low, like 5 or something like that. I can't imagine we don't win at least a couple of these past few games due to Jack alone in just this short time he has been out. As good as the depth looks when Jack and Nico are in the lineup, the team really depends on those two guys a lot. It's easy to lose that perspective, but those two are arguably the Devils two most important players. Still doesn't make this stretch of games any more acceptable IMO.

Nothing against Luke, but I'm starting to think Dougie needs more power play time, especially with Jack out of the lineup. He can't enter the zone like Luke can, but he is so dangerous when the Devils have possession. It seems the coaching staff is starting to move on from him already, which I don't think is the right move.

I can't wait for Miller to be ready to go. If he is able to play the PK, I really hope he keeps Smith out of the lineup from here on. Disappointing preseason showing aside, he can't possibly be anything but an upgrade.

 

[jagknife]

7 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

What’s interesting is that even though a coaching change can’t possibly be imminent, does Fitz dare consider punting away 2023-24 if this team is still scuffling 4-5 weeks from now?  Would he remain THAT convinced that Lindy is indeed the right man to take this team to a Cup in due time?  

Shero is to Hynes as Fitz is to Lindy. He picked his horse, trusted him entirely too much based off a record setting year, and now will live and (hopefully not) die with him.

5 hours ago, RizzMB30 said:

But we need Ryan Reaves so he can play 4 minutes a night and go fvck up Jordan Binnington.....or something. 

I know you’re being sarcastic, but if this team ever got Ryan Reaves I’d mail a very angry letter to Fitz.

That roided up gasbag does nothing. He wouldn’t even go after Marchand two weeks ago. My kids in their Halloween costumes with fake muscles are tougher than him. 

[Nicomo]

1 hour ago, jagknife said:

Shero is to Hynes as Fitz is to Lindy. He picked his horse, trusted him entirely too much based off a record setting year, and now will live and (hopefully not) die with him

Fitz and Ruff go all the way back to the 90’s Panthers. It definitely worries me that he will be overly loyal towards him no matter what. 

[Rob_Ottawa]

The answer's in the [emergency] room

[Nicomo]

Hart Trophy voters should be forced to watch all of these games. Jack would win in a landslide. 

[Mitico12]

Replacing arguably one of the most prominent, up and coming stars in the game is an exercise in futility.  So, there is no replacing Jack Hughes presence and production.  Also, there's little replacing Nico Hischier's ability to play solid on both sides of the puck.   You had a bit of a one-two punch here, that drove a bit of how the defense plays as well.

However, the team's lack of "collective defense" exacerbated by spotty goaltending is going to be the team's demise this season.  Irrespective of whether or not Jack and Nico come back tomorrow or next week, a team that is that porous defensively and is suspect on the back end in goal will not make it past the first round of the playoffs (if they even make the playoffs).

Team defense (in exchange for an explosive offense) is what I expected from a Jack-less and Nico-less team.  But apparently, our braintrust hasn't gotten the memo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MadDog2020]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

Hart Trophy voters should be forced to watch all of these games. Jack would win in a landslide. 

When it comes to an MVP in any sport, the best way to measure that is to say ‘take that player off the team and how do they do?’ Jack is proving to be the leading Hart candidate.

[NJDfan1711]

7 hours ago, Nicomo said:

A hell of a lot more than what they’re getting, that’s for sure. No one is asking for 20, but when Curtis Lazar has twice as many goals as you 7 weeks into the season that’s fvcking horrendous. Dude is well paid, and an alternate captain, and has done absolutely nothing to step up in the absence of Jack & Nico. 

I think the criticism of Palat is fair. As you said, he's definitely well paid, and the entire intention of bringing him to this team was a depth and veteran move - someone who could supplement this young group of guys and add scoring when guys like Jack, Bratt, Nico and Timo aren't finding the back of the net. Or, in this case when two of those guys are hurt and not even in the lineup at all. It's a huge opportunity for plot to log top line minutes and show what he's made of. 

It's no secret that, yes, historically Palat has been more of a clutch player when it comes to the playoffs, but he needs to prove himself and make us believe it was the right move to bring him here and pay him the money that we did. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 hours ago, nessus said:

I always try to come up with the positives, but this is just getting tiring at this point. I liked what I saw from Holtz, too bad he couldn't cash in.

Some of the analytics guys used to talk about how many wins Jack's impact gets the team over the course of a season. It's always surprisingly low, like 5 or something like that. I can't imagine we don't win at least a couple of these past few games due to Jack alone in just this short time he has been out. As good as the depth looks when Jack and Nico are in the lineup, the team really depends on those two guys a lot. It's easy to lose that perspective, but those two are arguably the Devils two most important players. Still doesn't make this stretch of games any more acceptable IMO.

Nothing against Luke, but I'm starting to think Dougie needs more power play time, especially with Jack out of the lineup. He can't enter the zone like Luke can, but he is so dangerous when the Devils have possession. It seems the coaching staff is starting to move on from him already, which I don't think is the right move.

I can't wait for Miller to be ready to go. If he is able to play the PK, I really hope he keeps Smith out of the lineup from here on. Disappointing preseason showing aside, he can't possibly be anything but an upgrade.

 

Re:  the bolded, I'm with ya.  When the Devils go into a new season with so much promise (especially coming off such a fun season, like 2022-23 was), the last thing I wanna do is make it sound like a 7-6-1 start with two top centers out (with Jack to return very soon) is somehow the end of the world...if the Devils had gotten off to, say, a 3-10-1 start, with Jack to miss several months, I would definitely get the feeling that it's absolutely not happening this year.  But this team is definitely NOT dead.

That being said, I can only try to feel good about Lindy for so long.  I was on board with him being hired, especially after Hynes...I did like the idea of a guy with experience for the next hire, even with the red flags (especially when it came to team defense) that came with Lindy coming here.  And when a guy sees his team notch 112 points and come back to beat the Devils' most-hated rival in the playoffs (when the Rangers were clearly as all-in as it gets), you WANT to believe that even if you're not necessarily ever going to be comfortable with him as the head coach, that maybe, just maybe, he'll prove you completely wrong.

It's not fair to underestimate how difficult it is to be down a pair of centers like Jack and Nico...they're obviously major losses.  When McLeod has to play in the Top 6 out of pure necessity...nothing against him, but that's obviously not good for the team NOR McLeod.  And when pure depth guys like Tierney and Smith (Smith was ABSOLUTELY supposed to be a 7th D-type, but Miller's injury obviously put a serious crimp in THAT plan) are also playing out of necessity...also not great.

BUT, I need a coach who brings more than "Well as long as everything is near-perfect, maybe he won't fvck things up."  I get that his players like him, and I also get that they do TRY for him...I never really ever get the impression that his players ever mail it in.  But I was wrong about the Devils needing a guy who doesn't get in the way too much and steps in to settle things down and make adjustments when needed.  They need a guy with some polish...a guy who brings more of a real system with him, as opposed to "Hope my star players do star things and make me look good."  They need a coach who can really make a difference, who when key guys are out, at least he puts his team in a position to have a CHANCE to steal a point or two.  The Devils are too talented to look so disorganized and helpless, as they have over this funk.

Basically, there are coaches (through effective systems blueprints) that have a way of getting a little more out of their teams than the parts would suggest.  Lindy strikes me as a guy who's a little more the opposite, even with the season that he had last year.  What sucks is that based off last season and having signed an extension, it's not like Fitz is going to make a change anytime soon...probably well into next season at the earliest would be my best guess, and of course only if the results fully warrant it.  But it feels like the need for an upgrade is inevitable...just a question of when.

Edited November 15 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[ringtwins]

Hopefully, colin miller can stick his finger in this dike.

[devlman]

I also thought Haula was absolutely brutal once again. The backbreaking third Jets goal was a result of his terrible pass which meant we couldn’t get a clear and a change. His penalty killing also looked slow and lazy. He belongs on those 2014ish Lou-era teams.

[jagknife]

24 minutes ago, devlman said:

I also thought Haula was absolutely brutal once again. The backbreaking third Jets goal was a result of his terrible pass which meant we couldn’t get a clear and a change. His penalty killing also looked slow and lazy. He belongs on those 2014ish Lou-era teams.

For clarity are you referring to the 3-2 goal right after they battled back to tie? Cause he wasn’t even on the ice for it. It was the Tierney-Nosek-Bastian line with the Dougie pair

[Jerrydevil]

1 hour ago, ringtwins said:

Hopefully, colin miller can stick his finger in this dike.

 

[devlman]

2 hours ago, jagknife said:

For clarity are you referring to the 3-2 goal right after they battled back to tie? Cause he wasn’t even on the ice for it. It was the Tierney-Nosek-Bastian line with the Dougie pair

Hmm then I have my goals mixed up. But I do know it was Haula, just cant verify which goal it was.

[jagknife]

41 minutes ago, devlman said:

Hmm then I have my goals mixed up. But I do know it was Haula, just cant verify which goal it was.

No worries. It was the last goal I was able to see last night and definitely drove me to the conclusion Tierney isn’t good and Bastian is struggling 

(As is everyone, apparently)

[Lateralous]

6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

 

That being said, I can only try to feel good about Lindy for so long.  I was on board with him being hired, especially after Hynes...I did like the idea of a guy with experience for the next hire, even with the red flags (especially when it came to team defense) that came with Lindy coming here.  And when a guy sees his team notch 112 points and come back to beat the Devils' most-hated rival in the playoffs (when the Rangers were clearly as all-in as it gets), you WANT to believe that even if you're not necessarily ever going to be comfortable with him as the head coach, that maybe, just maybe, he'll prove you completely wrong.

It's not fair to underestimate how difficult it is to be down a pair of centers like Jack and Nico...they're obviously major losses.  When McLeod has to play in the Top 6 out of pure necessity...nothing against him, but that's obviously not good for the team NOR McLeod.  And when pure depth guys like Tierney and Smith (Smith was ABSOLUTELY supposed to be a 7th D-type, but Miller's injury obviously put a serious crimp in THAT plan) are also playing out of necessity...also not great.

BUT, I need a coach who brings more than "Well as long as everything is near-perfect, maybe he won't fvck things up."  I get that his players like him, and I also get that they do TRY for him...I never really ever get the impression that his players ever mail it in.  But I was wrong about the Devils needing a guy who doesn't get in the way too much and steps in to settle things down and make adjustments when needed.  They need a guy with some polish...a guy who brings more of a real system with him, as opposed to "Hope my star players do star things and make me look good."  They need a coach who can really make a difference, who when key guys are out, at least he puts his team in a position to have a CHANCE to steal a point or two.  The Devils are too talented to look so disorganized and helpless, as they have over this funk.

Basically, there are coaches (through effective systems blueprints) that have a way of getting a little more out of their teams than the parts would suggest.  Lindy strikes me as a guy who's a little more the opposite, even with the season that he had last year.  What sucks is that based off last season and having signed an extension, it's not like Fitz is going to make a change anytime soon...probably well into next season at the earliest would be my best guess, and of course only if the results fully warrant it.  But it feels like the need for an upgrade is inevitable...just a question of when.

I don't disagree with any of this, the only thing I would add is that I suspect that Fitz is still looking at this as somewhat of a development year and I think Lindy does deserve a ton of credit for the development of the young guys on the team.   With the exception of the curious case of Alex Holtz, nearly every young player that has come up lately seems to be reaching the high end of their potential. Hell, if you ignore their draft pedigree and just consider where they were when Lindy inherited them, I would even argue McLeod and Zacha kind of hit the top end of their range.   Zetterlund is 2nd on the Sharks in scoring and first in goals.  I know, it's San Jose but still not bad.     

Do I think a guy like DeBoer could get a lot more out of this team?  Sure I do.  I know no one in their right mind is suggesting DeBoer, just using him as an example since most people here are probably familiar with him getting us to the cup while also being terrible for the development of a guy like Adam Larsson.  There are still very important guys who need to be properly developed just getting their feet wet, or in Nemec's case, not even here yet.   I think this is going to be another factor in Lindy getting a really long leash because unless someone who can do both X's and O's + development becomes available, it's probably better to stick with the guy who is killing it with the young guys at the NHL level. 

Note:  I know a lot of Zacha's success can be credited to Boston surrounding him with guys like Pasta and  Krejci last year but while I can't explain '21-'22, he did seem to figure some sh!t out in '20-'21 when he led the Devils in scoring.    

.     

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

I don't disagree with any of this, the only thing I would add is that I suspect that Fitz is still looking at this as somewhat of a development year and I think Lindy does deserve a ton of credit for the development of the young guys on the team.   With the exception of the curious case of Alex Holtz, nearly every young player that has come up lately seems to be reaching the high end of their potential. Hell, if you ignore their draft pedigree and just consider where they were when Lindy inherited them, I would even argue McLeod and Zacha kind of hit the top end of their range.   Zetterlund is 2nd on the Sharks in scoring and first in goals.  I know, it's San Jose but still not bad.     

Do I think a guy like DeBoer could get a lot more out of this team?  Sure I do.  I know no one in their right mind is suggesting DeBoer, just using him as an example since most people here are probably familiar with him getting us to the cup while also being terrible for the development of a guy like Adam Larsson.  There are still very important guys who need to be properly developed just getting their feet wet, or in Nemec's case, not even here yet.   I think this is going to be another factor in Lindy getting a really long leash because unless someone who can do both X's and O's + development becomes available, it's probably better to stick with the guy who is killing it with the young guys at the NHL level. 

Note:  I know a lot of Zacha's success can be credited to Boston surrounding him with guys like Pasta and  Krejci last year but while I can't explain '21-'22, he did seem to figure some sh!t out in '20-'21 when he led the Devils in scoring.  

Yeah this year was pretty much a "Maybe a ECF or SCF appearance if everything breaks absolutely right" kind of season.  Starting with first Nico getting hurt and then Jack following, it definitely doesn't look to be that kind of year at all...but I do still firmly believe that this team finds its way into the playoffs.

Did Lindy really have THAT much to do with these guys development, or is it a case of some of these guys simply being too good to be derailed?  Probably a lot of differing opinions on that.

Sadly it does feel like eventually Fitz's hand is going to be forced, once Lindy proves that he can only take the Devils so far.  When exactly that happens I don't know (I'm guessing sometime in 2024-25), but I can't say that I would ever expect it to happen this season...the team would REALLY have to fall off a cliff, as in, say, a 2021-22 kind of free fall.  I know it hasn't been pretty lately, but as long as Jack comes back and can stay healthy and play at or near his best, I can't see that kind of dropoff coming.  I think they'll stabilize, but they may be stuck in the middle of the Metro for the next few months, instead of being in the mix for a division title.   

[Satans Hockey]

Didn't read the whole thread, team blows again. Can't wait to see Smith off this team permanently, guy sucks as it is and can't even win a fight he should easily win.