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6 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If the bolded is accurate on any level...I'm sure Jack, Nico, and others will call him on it.  Jack and Nico obviously give a fvck and then some.  I know Jesper can look disengaged at times but I think that's just how it appears when he's in one of his funks. 

He needs a fvcking wake up call. I’ve had it with his ‘meh’ bullsh!t since he got here. Start playing like the player you were in SJ, or perhaps we can find you a better fit somewhere else where they don’t care if you zombie out every night. 

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18 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

He needs a fvcking wake up call. I’ve had it with his ‘meh’ bullsh!t since he got here. Start playing like the player you were in SJ, or perhaps we can find you a better fit somewhere else where they don’t care if you zombie out every night. 

He ain’t going anywhere.

But unless he’s still dealing with something physically, if he’s not picking it up in 3-4 games (I’ll give him a few games to get into the swing), Fitz might have to have a “What’s going on Timo?” kind of chat with him.  He’s the highest-paid forward and the second-highest paid Devil.  He was playing better after being benched but he’s starting to again look like the guy who needed to be benched.  Something’s gotta give.  Especially when guys like Jack are busting their asses every single game.  

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1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’m seriously losing my patience with Timo. He was a fvcking zombie last night. The only time I noticed him is when he let Quinn walk right around him, leading directly to a goal, when he should’ve been harder on the puck. 

We totally got that one wrong. The player Fitz should have traded for was Hertl (not even sure if he was available, but Hertl plays with a helluva lot of heart. Something Timo seems to be lacking). I still say Nico should take him out for a few beers and ask him WTF is up. Someone needs to get through to Meier. 

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3 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

We totally got that one wrong. The player Fitz should have traded for was Hertl (not even sure if he was available, but Hertl plays with a helluva lot of heart. Something Timo seems to be lacking). I still say Nico should take him out for a few beers and ask him WTF is up. Someone needs to get through to Meier. 

Meier was basically the guy, or one of just a few, in SJ. You'd think he'd be bale to handle the pressure... But maybe not. Alternative theory is that his head is still fvcked up from the Trouba special he got in the summer.

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12 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Meier was basically the guy, or one of just a few, in SJ. You'd think he'd be bale to handle the pressure... But maybe not. Alternative theory is that his head is still fvcked up from the Trouba special he got in the summer.

Never know. Trouba did bust him up pretty badly. The other theory is Meier isn't happy being one of many stars and no longer the face of a franchise (that belongs unquestionably to Jack) and it's been messing with his head. If that is the case, I'd hope someone would tell him to get his sh!t together asap and contribute. I guess we'll see if he ups his game. If he plays like this for the remainder of the season the team will be screwed with his contract. 

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19 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

We totally got that one wrong. The player Fitz should have traded for was Hertl (not even sure if he was available, but Hertl plays with a helluva lot of heart. Something Timo seems to be lacking). I still say Nico should take him out for a few beers and ask him WTF is up. Someone needs to get through to Meier. 


I don't know, he scored 40 last year and had 35 the year before that. I think the effort consistency needs to be there, but I think most people are forgetting that he WAS scoring through our loss streak and putting up decent possession numbers, but it does appear from the eye test that he's taken a backseater role since Nico and Jack have come back. 

Before the last two donuts of a game from Timo, he had 3 goals in 3 games. Each of those three games we lost by at least 4-6 goals but Timo scored in each game. 

He's 11 points in 16 games. That's not dreadful or awful in terms of trying to get to ppg. If he had 11 points in 23 games, then yeah, but saying you want Hertl seems to stem from just the fact that Hertl just potted a hat trick against the Islanders. 

Hertl was older and would not have cost as much as Timo to pry from the Sharks. We could have given up a 2nd and just one prospect and a Dman and we could have gotten him. 

 

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10 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

Never know. Trouba did bust him up pretty badly. The other theory is Meier isn't happy being one of many stars and no longer the face of a franchise (that belongs unquestionably to Jack) and it's been messing with his head. If that is the case, I'd hope someone would tell him to get his sh!t together asap and contribute. I guess we'll see if he ups his game. If he plays like this for the remainder of the season the team will be screwed with his contract. 

I suspect this could be the case. There are some guys out there who like the stardom and limelight, and the attention that comes with it, even if it doesn't necessarily mean that they're winning - as was pretty much the case with Meier in San Jose where he was basically their main guy, but the team didn't win anything. 

On the Devils, he blends in more because we have guys like Jack, Nico, Bratt, and Toffoli who are  producing at high rates and all the attention isn't on him. It should be a good thing, way less pressure, and better players around him, but who knows. Everyone reacts to that stuff differently.

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Meier is two games removed from injury. Played last night with dudes he doesn’t play alongside with often. Pre-injury he wasn’t doing badly. Give him some time to get going. He’s also on the third line so it’ll take some time to get the momentum rolling. 

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23 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

We totally got that one wrong. The player Fitz should have traded for was Hertl (not even sure if he was available, but Hertl plays with a helluva lot of heart. Something Timo seems to be lacking). I still say Nico should take him out for a few beers and ask him WTF is up. Someone needs to get through to Meier. 

 

7 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

Never know. Trouba did bust him up pretty badly. The other theory is Meier isn't happy being one of many stars and no longer the face of a franchise (that belongs unquestionably to Jack) and it's been messing with his head. If that is the case, I'd hope someone would tell him to get his sh!t together asap and contribute. I guess we'll see if he ups his game. If he plays like this for the remainder of the season the team will be screwed with his contract. 

Here's what's wrong with the bolded above:

Hertl is a center, not to mention almost three years older than Timo...he was not what the Devils needed...Meier's game fit an EXACT need for the Devils at the time that he was acquired (physical scoring winger).  Also, Hertl was in Year 1 of a mega-extension that he had just signed on 3/16/22...unless something goes HORRIBLY wrong (like the player becoming a major cancer), you rarely see a player like that dealt in the very first year of a brand-new eight-year deal.

Meier was also known for having chemistry with Nico in international play...so much so that Devils fans wondered for several seasons what it would be like to have those two playing together.  It felt like a long-awaited dream come true.

Also, unlike Hertl, Meier was only signed through this season if he hadn't signed an extension, so it made sense for the Sharks to move him while they could get a solid return of some young pieces (which they did), as they had decided to go into more of a rebuild mode.  

And let's not make Hertl to be more than he is...Hertl's a nice player, but he's not some major points horse or goal-scoring beast.  He's managed over 60 points three times, same as Timo (career high is 74...Timo's is 76) and he's managed 30+ goals twice (Timo's done that four times, in less seasons).  Hertl averages 25 G and 31 A per 82 GP; Timo's at 28 G and 29 A.  And to be fair, how often have you really seen Hertl play?  Can you really attest to how much heart Hertl plays with compares to Timo, or is this more a case of the grass looking greener because we're frustrated with Timo ATM?  

 

Also, it's not like Meier didn't know that Nico and Jack and Dougie and Bratt were here when he decided to stick around, so I'm not buying the "I need to be the face of the franchise" bit; after he signed his deal he made it very clear how much he wanted to be part of a potential winner.  Clearly he hasn't quite settled in yet, but I suspect it's more that it's taking more time for him to find some chemistry with linemates...more time than we'd all like, to be sure. 

I get why we're frustrated with his overall body of work here overall...we've seen the scoring and we've seen the physicality, but not enough of either, and we've also seen him be a relative nonentity in some games (when he's not taking bad penalties)...that's gotta change, absolutely, and soon...even if chemistry remains an issue, he simply HAS to start giving more, game in and game out.  But it's definitely much too early to bail on him or act like he possibly can't or won't get it together.  Doesn't make him any less maddening right in this moment, but the guy is locked up here and is going to be here for quite some time.  He's a Devil.  

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I'm not an apologist for him, but I think he's still hurting. Now why he hasn't seemed integrated this season?

I think he's having a hard time playing "his" game with this system. That is on HIM though. Praying it clicks soon, we don't have another option.

If he finds it, we'll be much harder to play.

 

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And on one last side note...man does Hertl seem like exactly the kind of guy Lou would jump on at this point (age, cap hit, and term be damned).  

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40 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

 

Here's what's wrong with the bolded above:

Hertl is a center, not to mention almost three years older than Timo...he was not what the Devils needed...Meier's game fit an EXACT need for the Devils at the time that he was acquired (physical scoring winger).  Also, Hertl was in Year 1 of a mega-extension that he had just signed on 3/16/22...unless something goes HORRIBLY wrong (like the player becoming a major cancer), you rarely see a player like that dealt in the very first year of a brand-new eight-year deal.

Meier was also known for having chemistry with Nico in international play...so much so that Devils fans wondered for several seasons what it would be like to have those two playing together.  It felt like a long-awaited dream come true.

Also, unlike Hertl, Meier was only signed through this season if he hadn't signed an extension, so it made sense for the Sharks to move him while they could get a solid return of some young pieces (which they did), as they had decided to go into more of a rebuild mode.  

And let's not make Hertl to be more than he is...Hertl's a nice player, but he's not some major points horse or goal-scoring beast.  He's managed over 60 points three times, same as Timo (career high is 74...Timo's is 76) and he's managed 30+ goals twice (Timo's done that four times, in less seasons).  Hertl averages 25 G and 31 A per 82 GP; Timo's at 28 G and 29 A.  And to be fair, how often have you really seen Hertl play?  Can you really attest to how much heart Hertl plays with compares to Timo, or is this more a case of the grass looking greener because we're frustrated with Timo ATM?  

 

Also, it's not like Meier didn't know that Nico and Jack and Dougie and Bratt were here when he decided to stick around, so I'm not buying the "I need to be the face of the franchise" bit; after he signed his deal he made it very clear how much he wanted to be part of a potential winner.  Clearly he hasn't quite settled in yet, but I suspect it's more that it's taking more time for him to find some chemistry with linemates...more time than we'd all like, to be sure. 

I get why we're frustrated with his overall body of work here overall...we've seen the scoring and we've seen the physicality, but not enough of either, and we've also seen him be a relative nonentity in some games (when he's not taking bad penalties)...that's gotta change, absolutely, and soon...even if chemistry remains an issue, he simply HAS to start giving more, game in and game out.  But it's definitely much too early to bail on him or act like he possibly can't or won't get it together.  Doesn't make him any less maddening right in this moment, but the guy is locked up here and is going to be here for quite some time.  He's a Devil.  

Totally. There's not one person here who didn't get excited at the prospect of Meier and Nico playing together. It's basically frustration at this point based on Meier's previous accomplishments. Hopefully he finds his game soon, adapts, and learns how to excel in the Devils' system. Regarding Hertl, I've just watched video when I can and he seems like a hard-nosed player who plays with a high motor. Again, Meier was that same type of player in SJ and that's probably me speaking out of frustration for lack of not seeing it yet.

Meier is here long-term so yea...hopefully he gets it together. It would be a gargantuan waste of talent if he doesn't. 

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10 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

Totally. There's not one person here who didn't get excited at the prospect of Meier and Nico playing together. It's basically frustration at this point based on Meier's previous accomplishments. Hopefully he finds his game soon, adapts, and learns how to excel in the Devils' system. Regarding Hertl, I've just watched video when I can and he seems like a hard-nosed player who plays with a high motor. Again, Meier was that same type of player in SJ and that's probably me speaking out of frustration for lack of not seeing it yet.

Meier is here long-term so yea...hopefully he gets it together. It would be a gargantuan waste of talent if he doesn't. 

Yeah I thought with a freshly-signed max-term extension, and a full training camp and preseason, that he was going to be off and running sooner than later.  Certainly didn't expect him to get benched three games in.

He did start to accumulate some points after that, but something just feels...off.  I just want to see it all click for him here, badly.  

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14 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

Never know. Trouba did bust him up pretty badly. The other theory is Meier isn't happy being one of many stars and no longer the face of a franchise (that belongs unquestionably to Jack) and it's been messing with his head. If that is the case, I'd hope someone would tell him to get his sh!t together asap and contribute. I guess we'll see if he ups his game. If he plays like this for the remainder of the season the team will be screwed with his contract. 

 

1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I suspect this could be the case. There are some guys out there who like the stardom and limelight, and the attention that comes with it, even if it doesn't necessarily mean that they're winning - as was pretty much the case with Meier in San Jose where he was basically their main guy, but the team didn't win anything. 

On the Devils, he blends in more because we have guys like Jack, Nico, Bratt, and Toffoli who are  producing at high rates and all the attention isn't on him. It should be a good thing, way less pressure, and better players around him, but who knows. Everyone reacts to that stuff differently.

Yet Timo decided to re-sign with the Devils rather than search for a smaller pond in which he could once again be the biggest fish.  He had to know that the pecking order on this team is Jack —> Nico —> Jesper —> everyone else (eventually, Luke and Nemec will be part of the core group, too).  If he’s unhappy with his situation, he has no one but himself to blame.

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9 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said:

 

Yet Timo decided to re-sign with the Devils rather than search for a smaller pond in which he could once again be the biggest fish.  He had to know that the pecking order on this team is Jack —> Nico —> Jesper —> everyone else (eventually, Luke and Nemec will be part of the core group, too).  If he’s unhappy with his situation, he has no one but himself to blame.

Definitely no one to blame but himself, he's in charge of his destiny and certainly no one forced him into the situation, but I have to wonder if maybe ego plays a little bit of a factor. Perhaps he was expecting to come in and be the big dog, despite the pre-existing talent on the roster?  Might make sense, especially given how young the team is. Maybe he thought with his age and experience he would come in and take over. 

This is all pure speculation, I'm not saying any of it's true. Just grasping at straws and thinking out loud. 

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17 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Definitely no one to blame but himself, he's in charge of his destiny and certainly no one forced him into the situation, but I have to wonder if maybe ego plays a little bit of a factor. Perhaps he was expecting to come in and be the big dog, despite the pre-existing talent on the roster?  Might make sense, especially given how young the team is. Maybe he thought with his age and experience he would come in and take over. 

This is all pure speculation, I'm not saying any of it's true. Just grasping at straws and thinking out loud. 

It’s certainly possible, as he wouldn’t be the first to assume that more experienced = better player.  As has been pointed out, it might be time for Nico, Jack, or a veteran like Palat to speak with Timo and explain that because of the broader needs of the team, he won’t be the go-to guy like he was in San Jose, but he can still be a big part of what the group hopes to accomplish.  If the Devils win the Stanley Cup, everyone on the roster will get his due.

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6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Keep in mind that Fitz bet HARD on this team already having most of the answers in house...he spent good money to keep Bratt and Timo and spent what limited leftover money he had on cheap depth guys that he didn't think would ever play as much as they have.  He extended Ruff.  As much as I might want Ruff replaced, I don't kid myself...at 12-10-1, the season is still plenty salvageable, and I'm more just venting about seeing the same issues not being corrected.  I don't expect Fitz to extend a guy and then can him 23 games into a season that, though frustrating to watch, hasn't truly gone off the rails.    

Honestly, this season hasn't gone the way we hoped so far but I haven't really seen anything to suggest Fitz's master plan is off the rails in any way.  While he did bet hard on the core of the roster, he really didn't go all in on our two biggest problems by any means, coaching and goaltending.   Ruff can pretty much be replaced at any time if there is a better option.  The biggest concern is just the optics of firing a guy you just extended coming off a wildly successful year. 

It looks like he will probably need to address the goaltending at some point, but its not like he's tied long term to either of the guys we have.  I think we both agreed with him seeing how the current tandem played out which wasn't unreasonable given that we had a one guy coming off a nice 30 win season and a rookie who literally outplayed Shesterkin in the playoffs. 

 

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah I thought with a freshly-signed max-term extension, and a full training camp and preseason, that he was going to be off and running sooner than later.  Certainly didn't expect him to get benched three games in.

He did start to accumulate some points after that, but something just feels...off.  I just want to see it all click for him here, badly.  

I'm another one who has been disappointed with Timo so far.  The lazy play and penalties are one thing but I also haven't really seen many flashes of the heavy shooting bull rushing power forward I was under the impression we were getting.   I struggle to think of goals of his in a NJ uniform that aren't him just stationary in front of the net with put backs or tap ins.   That's certainly a skill we needed to add to the group but from what little I saw of him in San Jose, I thought we were getting so much more than what we've seen to date.     

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There's this weird narrative here that's starting to gain steam and no offense to anyone here, but I'm not really sure there's any evidence at all to support it.

I think Timo knew he was coming here to be part of a young ensemble capable of winning big in the not-too-distant future...and got paid very handsomely to do it (but to his credit, he did NOT attempt to chase UFA, which he easily could have).  I don't think Timo's any dummy...he surely knows that there's truly only one "THE MAN" here, and it's Jack fvcking Hughes.  It all starts with him.  He's the Devils' first bona-fide offensive superstar...his pure talent and ability is way the fvck up there.  The only guy who can come as close to being as purely electric is Bratt, but it's not nearly as game in and game out for him as it is with Jack, and Jack just has SO much skill.  I don't think Timo ever thought for a second that he was somehow going to become The Man here, or that such an idea was ever in his head.  He saw a potentially great situation and wanted to be a part of it.

But where I give a good chunk of our fanbase credit (especially HERE), is that we have room in our hearts for more than just the superstar.  Bratt, Nico, Dougie, now Toffoli (and of course others)...we appreciate these guys for what they all are and when they're doing what we know that they can, we embrace them all differently, but equally.  McLeod's ability to win faceoffs and score that occasional surprisingly pretty goal...Hischier's excellent all-around game...Dougie's net-seeking laser beams...Luke's tantalizing promise...we love all of these guys.

Timo can become just as celebrated as the rest...we just need to see him be the guy he was during the last two seasons...he gets on some 10-goal in 15-games burst, that's all it will take.  We're not an unrealistic fanbase...no one is asking for 50 goals and 100 points from him.  He puts up 30-40 goals and 60-80 points and knocks guys around, he'll be as much "part of the gang" as anyone else, just as beloved as many others here.  Being one of the guys is not such a bad thing here.

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14 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

Honestly, this season hasn't gone the way we hoped so far but I haven't really seen anything to suggest Fitz's master plan is off the rails in any way.  While he did bet hard on the core of the roster, he really didn't go all in on our two biggest problems by any means, coaching and goaltending.   Ruff can pretty much be replaced at any time if there is a better option.  The biggest concern is just the optics of firing a guy you just extended coming off a wildly successful year. 

It looks like he will probably need to address the goaltending at some point, but its not like he's tied long term to either of the guys we have.  I think we both agreed with him seeing seeing how the goaltending played out which wasn't unreasonable given that we had a one guy coming off a nice 30 win season and a rookie who literally outplayed Shesterkin in the playoffs. 

 

I'm another one who has been disappointed with Timo so far.  The lazy play and penalties are one thing but I also haven't really seen many flashes of the heavy shooting bull rushing power forward I was under the impression we were getting.   I struggle to think of goals of his in a NJ uniform that aren't him just stationary in front of the net with put backs or tap ins.   That's certainly a skill we needed to add to the group but from what little I saw of him in San Jose, I thought we were getting so much more than what we've seen to date.     

It's not all on the goalies, but I don't think he planned for them for their numbers to fall so sharply...or for several of the defensemen to not play up to last year's level.  I also don't think he saw himself having to deal with so many injuries, but who really sees their teams getting slammed with key players missing games?  I was on board with Fitz's master plan this past offseason and I have no problems at all with the moves that he made or his overall approach.  I still firmly believe in him, but the one thing he hasn't really been inclined to do is to make any significant in-season fixes...there were absolutely reasons not to before.  But if the goaltending doesn't improve soon, Fitz may have to REALLY start kicking the tires on who's available.  I don't think he'll do anything rash there, in terms of "He gave up THAT just to get THAT guy?!" 

I had no issues with Fitz not trying to snag an upgrade in goal this offseason...there were reasons for him to hope the answers were already in house, and like we've all pretty much noted, he wasn't interested in tying up cap space in a goalie at the time.  And it didn't seem like there wasn't a whole lot available via trade anyway...still doesn't seem to be.  I'm sure there's fans who would've liked Hellebuyck, but who the hell knows what Winnipeg was asking for?  Not like anyone else stepped up with any big offers of their own.  And Hellebuyck's hit quite possibly would've meant either no Bratt or Timo...I'm sure some would say "Well screw Timo then, I'd rather have Helle!", but also would've meant thinning the prospect pool as well.  And of course too early to write off Timo as some misstep.

My thoughts re:  the Devils goalie situation remains the same...I just really hope that they can develop one from within already (if that turns out to be Schmid, all the better).  You're up Brennan!  

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3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's not all on the goalies, but I don't think he planned for them for their numbers to fall so sharply...or for several of the defensemen to not play up to last year's level.  I also don't think he saw himself having to deal with so many injuries, but who really sees their teams getting slammed with key players missing games?  I was on board with Fitz's master plan this past offseason and I have no problems at all with the moves that he made or his overall approach.  I still firmly believe in him, but the one thing he hasn't really been inclined to do is to make any significant in-season fixes...there were absolutely reasons not to before.  But if the goaltending doesn't improve soon, Fitz may have to REALLY start kicking the tires on who's available.  I don't think he'll do anything rash there, in terms of "He gave up THAT just to get THAT guy?!" 

He's definitely a patient dude but if the right guy becomes available, I'm confident he would make an in season adjustment.  Our winger situation wasn't great last year and when the seemingly perfect guy became available, he nabbed him.   

The goaltender issue is just going to be a tough fix until a few more teams fall out of contention.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

He's definitely a patient dude but if the right guy becomes available, I'm confident he would make an in season adjustment.  Our winger situation wasn't great last year and when the seemingly perfect guy became available, he nabbed him.   

The goaltender issue is just going to be a tough fix until a few more teams fall out of contention.  

The Timo situation was different from prior seasons...Fitz was buying not only for the present, but for the future. 

Agree re:  the goalie situation.  Right now, it would be either sign a guy like Halak and hope for the best (no thanks), or give one of Poultier/Kallgren/KK a look (also no thanks).  You are right, probably just going to have to see who becomes available.

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4 hours ago, slasher72 said:

Never know. Trouba did bust him up pretty badly. The other theory is Meier isn't happy being one of many stars and no longer the face of a franchise (that belongs unquestionably to Jack) and it's been messing with his head. If that is the case, I'd hope someone would tell him to get his sh!t together asap and contribute. I guess we'll see if he ups his game. If he plays like this for the remainder of the season the team will be screwed with his contract. 

If he’s not happy because he is not the face of the team, then why did he sign?  He could have held out for the $10 million and then walk in a year.

It maybe that he is just not the guy for the system.  Zacha struggled in NJ and McLeod is only now starting to play his best hockey.  If seems as though bigger bodied forwards have a hard time in the system.

Another possibility could be he doesn’t like Hughes.

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19 minutes ago, Puckbuster said:

Another possibility could be he doesn’t like Hughes.

I’m going to assume you’re referring to Jack since Luke hasn’t been with the Devils that long.  I’m not aware of a beef between the two men, nor have I seen any evidence that one exists, but if something like that is contributing to Timo’s inconsistent play, then he’s going to have to find a way to put his personal feelings aside, as Jack’s not going anywhere.

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