bruins4777 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Ok i realize most of you will say "brodeur". In fact i myself am saying brodeur. But what i'm really wondering is why you guys want brodeur over roy? Personally my reason is this: Puckhandling and attitude. Although there may be no clutch goalie better than patrick roy, to me Brodeur is the greatest puckhandling goalie ever. His ability to handle the puck changes the entire flow of a game, he can start a rush for a goal with his puckhandling, slow down the game, and do so much more with that incredible puckhandling. As a goalie myself, i think his puckhandling puts him ahead of all goalies, since with it he is able to do so much and to me he is the reason the devils have been the most consistent defensive team of all time and he, not the trap, is the main reason he faces so few shots. Also the fact that he isn't an arrogant prick endears him more to me. I haven't even gotten into his INCREDIBLE poise, which is what puts him ahead of guys like turco, dipietro, and throwback hextall who have/had great puckhandling. Anyways thats my opinion. When you vote can you please say why you'd pick one or the other at their peaks? I just think this will make some interesting discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Brodeur's attitude is getting to be Roy-esque. I think as he closes in on Patrick's records, it will get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 (edited) Roy is probably the greatest pure puckstopper ever, though you could argue Hasek too, but his era of dominance was shorter and it was only during the dead puck era. Roy is the best. Brodeur is tough to evaluate, yes he's the greatest puckhandling goalie ever, and he made things easier on himself that way. He is a good positional goalie, good glove, but his reflexes were average. He never carried an average team to a cup, Roy did it twice. His playoff OT record is terrible, way too many softies. Edited November 28, 2004 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4777 Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 Brodeur's attitude is getting to be Roy-esque. I think as he closes in on Patrick's records, it will get worse. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Really, cause i haven't noticed. Then again i don't see the devs daily like you guys use too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 It's just some of the things that he's said to the media that has rubbed me the wrong way.. and his column in Montreal. Take, for example, the Golderak comment about Garth Snow. We all got a chuckle out of it, but at that point, Brodeur is saying "I'm so much better than this guy I can get away with insulting him." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Take, for example, the Golderak comment about Garth Snow. We all got a chuckle out of it, but at that point, Brodeur is saying "I'm so much better than this guy I can get away with insulting him." Perhaps it was just a response to something Snow said about Brodeur or the Devils, because Snow is known to be an arrogant loudmouth himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4777 Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 o...I wasn't aware of that. I didn't know brodeur was like that....meh. I just like how brodeur is so upbeat i heard the one time grant marshall got a penalty shot he said "i dunno, just enjoy it cause you probably won't get another one" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Brodeur is tough to evaluate, yes he's the greatest puckhandling goalie ever, and he made things easier on himself that way. He is a good positional goalie, good glove, but his reflexes were average. He never carried an average team to a cup, Roy did it twice. His playoff OT record is terrible, way too many softies. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Two? I'll give you the 86 Canadiens, but what was the other? The 93 Canadiens had 102 points, two guys with over 90 points, a 40 goal scorer and three guys with between 30 and 39 goals. They were no slouch. Neither were the Avalanche teams who both won their divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Roy hands down. Roy is the greatest goalie of all time and Brodeur might become close when he retires. Roy won Cups for his teams and won an amazing three Conn Smythes. Heres where it comes down to. Roy destroyed the Devils in 2001 and Marty was below average. That meeting is a perfect way to judge the two goalies and the Devils even had the most goals that year. I don;t think there is any argument what so ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Roy had more rest than Brodeur in 2001 and Roy almost gave the series away with his gaffe in Game 4. No way he deserved the Conn Smythe over Sakic that year. But Roy is still the better goaltender. Petey, don't look at stats, look at names. Is that team really a Cup champion? Certainly they are one of the worst Cup winners in the modern era. Roy got them there. Brodeur still hasn't done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils102 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 As much as it kills me to say it, Roy probably has been the better goalie in his peaks. Nothing Brodeur has done can really compete with the 86 cup where he basically won the cup single handedly. He also outduled Brodeur in 2001, although they were both inconsistent throughout the series. That said, you could definitely make an argument that Brodeur has been the more consistent goalie. He has continued to improve over his career while Roy has been inconsistent at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Roy hands down. Roy is the greatest goalie of all time and Brodeur might become close when he retires. Roy won Cups for his teams and won an amazing three Conn Smythes. Heres where it comes down to. Roy destroyed the Devils in 2001 and Marty was below average. That meeting is a perfect way to judge the two goalies and the Devils even had the most goals that year. I don;t think there is any argument what so ever. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Roy has accomplished more thus far, but how does the one series judge both goaltenders when Belfour outdueled Roy (two seasons in a row!), Vernon outdueled him once, not to mention Hasek, Fernandez, et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 well, you can also say that Damian Rhodes and an aging Tom Barrasso outdueled Brodeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylbert Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 well, you can also say that Damian Rhodes and an aging Tom Barrasso outdueled Brodeur <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think thats why he said "but how does the one series judge both goaltenders" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 If the Devils won the Cup in 2001 everyone here would be saying Brodeur outdueled Roy when they met in the biggest series, the biggest stage, the Stanley Cup. So with that being said Roy was outstanding and shut down the Greatest Devils offense of all time while Brodeur looked like a below average goalie. Even without that Roy has won Cups for teams that had no reason winning and has count them, three Conn Smythes to Brodeurs zero. Right now I can't see how anyone can vote Brodeur tthe best goalie and the only people in the world who will are Devils fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 You 'could' make the case for Marty being better than Roy, it isn't just Devils fans. Marty will be statistically better when his career is over, he plays the position better (re: puckhandling). And I don't buy this 'Roy led two mediocre teams to Cups while Marty hasn't' line of thinking. First of all I don't recall many people thinking last year's Devils were a lock to win the Cup Stack up the players on the '86 Canadiens and '93 Canadiens with the '03 Devils. There's not much of a difference, we have a better defense, they were deeper up front (particularly the '93 team). And unlike those two Canadien teams we DID have to go through the best team in hockey to win the Cup, while the '86 Oilers and '93 Penguins were taken out by other teams. All that said I did vote for Waaah as much as I don't like him, three Conn Smythes, outdueling Marty head-to-head, Waaah's OT record, one more Cup at this point all compel me to say yeah he's better right now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 (edited) If the Devils won the Cup in 2001 everyone here would be saying Brodeur outdueled Roy when they met in the biggest series, the biggest stage, the Stanley Cup. Just as you say things such as "they were owned" or "they were destroyed" following a Devils loss? I realize you try not to be a homer, but you also criticize the team a lot and call the general fanbase out often for making what you believe to be biased statements. But the truth is that 28 other NHL franchises haven't had as much recent success as NJ has. Combine that with the excessive criticism of them in the media, and you're obviously going to have people who are constantly excited about the team. As Petey mentioned about 1993, the Montreal team wasn't quite as horrible as people would like to believe. I don't care WHAT names were on the roster, because they had players who were on hot streaks in the postseason and had enough to contribute to winning ALONG with Roy. Yes, he had to win 10 OTs, but if they hadn't been able to score, he would have lost many of those or not been there in the first place. So Roy's first two Smythes were well-deserved, yes, but I agree with Tri that Sakic deserved it in 2001, especially since Forsberg was injured. Smythes are nice trophies, but I don't base EVERYTHING on them. They're strange to me because sometimes the winners are so clear-cut that awarding the trophy screams "You would have had no chance of winning the Cup without <player x>." It's kind of nice having quite a few candidates up for nomination instead. On the other hand, I'm wondering how a goaltender CAN win the Conn Smythe on NJ, especially considering just how many players contribute to our team's success throughout a good run. We receive the timely scoring, rock-solid defense AND great goaltending. We often don't need a goaltender to stand on their head, especially since when we DO lose it's usually because we can't generate any scoring in the least. I don't harp on 2001 that much. Which of our players DID have a good Finals? Because I honestly can't remember. All I know is that we generated an incredible one goal in the last two games. Say that Roy "owned" us or that our offense choked, whatever, because it doesn't matter. But Marty was NOT going to shut out Colorado, a 118-point team with that type of offense and defense (Foote, Bourque, Blake, et al.) at home, especially when they nearly gambled their future away for that one run. They can enjoy that season all they want, as far as I'm concerned, especially considering how they're not built nearly as well. Edited November 28, 2004 by Giuseppe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 When Brodeur's career is done he might be the greatest goalie ever but right now it is not close. Brodeur still has a lot of hokcey to be played. Also with the Devils using the trap it has helped Brodeur out so much. I have seen Brodeur steal games so many times but we have all seen Brodeur do nothing and get shutouts. Last year he had 10 shutouts and how many of those did he get 20 or mroe shots. Maybe twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJD Jester Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I think this all comes down to whether you feel the system suceeds because of Marty, or if Marty suceeds because of the system. I've seen enough of the Devils over the last decade to think it's a little of both, but there's no question that Roy and other goalies in the elite faced more shots than Marty on average. <JESTER> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionHockey Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Roy, he was much more clutch than any other goalie... even Brodeur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4777 Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 yep, this is kinda what i expected. The reason people are saying roy are not suprising much at all. Honestly i might say roy anotehr day, i sway back and forth all the time. I guess i just like brodeur more as a person and his beautiful puckhandling puts him ahead...bleh so hard to pick. To me brodeur is the system in jersey and thats what endears him so much to me, but at the same time roy is so clutch. and i guess clutch is more important...but at brodeur's peak he can control the game like few other goalies AGGH!!!?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Funny. Most of the comments are saying Roy, but the poll itself says Brodeur. I won't vote. I can't give it to Brodeur, but I refuse got give any kudos to ego-maniac who refused to play for our Olympic team because they were going to give Brodeur a SHOT at starting goaltender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) Since Brodeur's subpar OT record was mentioned, I felt that I should mention that Roy's Game 7 record is 6-7. Although a sparkling 6-2 at home, he was 0-5 on the road, which I never thought would be the case. Marty was able to take 2 Game 7s on the road, as we know, which was HUGE. Edited November 29, 2004 by Giuseppe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4777 Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Since Brodeur's subpar OT record was mentioned, I felt that I should mention that Roy's Game 7 record is 6-7. Although a sparkling 6-2 at home, he was 0-5 on the road, which I never thought would be the case. Marty was able to take 2 away Game 7s on the road, as we know, which was HUGE. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was going to point that out, but thank you. Lets also remeber that despite this pretty so so game 7 record, roy is no doubt a huge clutch goaltender. Which i could use as a springboard for a huge rant about patrick lalime and how pissed i am about people calling him a choker....but i'll hold back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Lets also remeber that despite this pretty so so game 7 record, roy is no doubt a huge clutch goaltender. Which i could use as a springboard for a huge rant about patrick lalime and how pissed i am about people calling him a choker....but i'll hold back. biggrin.gif Oh, I agree with you. I certainly can't diminish Roy's accomplishments, and I wasn't trying to. I just think people need to look at both goaltenders at face value instead of assuming one blows away the other automatically or that one's success is because of the "trap". And when I take them both at face value, I consider Roy to have been the more dominant individual when needed (USUALLY). However, most of us realize that Marty is on pace to shatter a few of Roy's records given time, so we'll see. As much as I hate to say it, as of NOW, Marty is the better regular season goaltender and Roy the better postseason goaltender. Either way, I still like our chances for another Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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