From the NHLPA website

[MadDog2020]

http://www.nhlpa.com/Content/Feature.asp?contentId=3431

Unreal. They don't want linkage, but they STILL expect the cap to increase when revenues go up, after the league told them in no uncertian terms that linkage works BOTH WAYS. I swear, do these guys sniff paint for fun? No one could be born this stupid.

['7']

the NHL invited them to NY........and did not make a proposal. They're lucky the NHLPA didn't flush there heads down a toilet.

This is negotiations remember, not "Give Gary whatever he wants"

they accept a cap, and the owners have to make concessions too. Nobody is stupid enough to believe the owners lose less by not playing. Let's see these franchises bleed for a while, pit them against each other. then maybe the middle and upper level teams will stop being held hostage by the smaller market teams who shouldn't be in the league.

[MadDog2020]

the NHL invited them to NY........and did not make a proposal. They're lucky the NHLPA didn't flush there heads down a toilet.

This is negotiations remember, not "Give Gary whatever he wants"

they accept a cap, and the owners have to make concessions too. Nobody is stupid enough to believe the owners lose less by not playing. Let's see these franchises bleed for a while, pit them against each other. then maybe the middle and upper level teams will stop being held hostage by the smaller market teams who shouldn't be in the league.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They can't have their cake and eat it too. You don't want linkage- fine- no linkage- EITHER way. You want more if the revenues go up, you take less when they go down. Life 'aint a one-way street.

['7']

the owners also never even agreed to a minimum salary, so they must concede on linkage to the players. jeez they accepted your cap already, and a 24% rollback, that was the biggest concessions!

[njdevils_info]

Alright, I trade you the 24% rollback for a cap at $42.5 million.

[Derek21]

The owners are out to make as much money as they can. But they also want to be taken off the hook completely in this mess. I see one side ready to sacrifice millions of dollars and I see another side greedy as hell going for the jugular as part of some revenge tactic for their own stupid mistakes. It's why I feel the way I do regarding the owners. Someone should tell the Nashville's and Florida's that a $45 million cap would limit the spending of the 7 or 8 big market teams there are. They want a more competitive balance. By getting that kind of cap in place, they'd have it. You can't have it all.

[Derek21]

Also, we're not even factoring in if a $45 million cap were accepted, what happens to unrestricted free agency and RFA's and arbitration? Is the age going to be lowered for UFA status? These things would have to get sorted out as part of a new agreement.

[MadDog2020]

the owners also never even agreed to a minimum salary, so they must concede on linkage to the players. jeez they accepted your cap already, and a 24% rollback, that was the biggest concessions!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will agree there should've been a salary floor of around $30 mil offered with increased revenue sharing- the owners are wrong there. But as far as linkage goes, I agree with the owners. Linkage should go both ways, not just the way the players want it. Just goes to show once again that BOTH PARTIES are to blame and should rot in hell.

[njdevils_info]

Also, we're not even factoring in if a $45 million cap were accepted, what happens to unrestricted free agency and RFA's and arbitration? Is the age going to be lowered for UFA status? These things would have to get sorted out as part of a new agreement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right, but those are issues either side was willing to part with in order to get a deal done. They could flip flop those either way they wanted. If they could clear the hurdle of a cap, the rest of the pieces would take about 15 minutes to figure out.

[Derek21]

I agree with the salary floor. But if there are such poor teams, why not make it between $25 million and 45 mill?

The linkage of revenues is definitely a breaking point. Both sides need to agree on a fair figure.

[njdevils_info]

but the players didn't want to agree on linkage. They only conceeded to a cap when the owners dropped the linkage.

[Derek21]

Also, we're not even factoring in if a $45 million cap were accepted, what happens to unrestricted free agency and RFA's and arbitration? Is the age going to be lowered for UFA status? These things would have to get sorted out as part of a new agreement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right, but those are issues either side was willing to part with in order to get a deal done. They could flip flop those either way they wanted. If they could clear the hurdle of a cap, the rest of the pieces would take about 15 minutes to figure out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it would take a little longer than that. They're both in need of new voices.

[Derek21]

You have to give to get the deal. Personally, I think the players are wrong on the linkage thing. They should negotiate a fair number similar to what the NFL's is. Think that's around 63. So, why not 60?

[MadDog2020]

Also, we're not even factoring in if a $45 million cap were accepted, what happens to unrestricted free agency and RFA's and arbitration? Is the age going to be lowered for UFA status? These things would have to get sorted out as part of a new agreement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right, but those are issues either side was willing to part with in order to get a deal done. They could flip flop those either way they wanted. If they could clear the hurdle of a cap, the rest of the pieces would take about 15 minutes to figure out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it would take a little longer than that. They're both in need of new voices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gretzky for commish and Gartner for NHLPA executive director. Let a hockey player represent the hockey players. Not some blowfish-looking, arrogant, holier-than-thou, piece of sh!t laywer.

[njdevils_info]

right, well thats the thing. No one would agree on whether or not linkage should be apart of the deal. I don't think it should have been a discussion. The discussion is "Okay, what percentage do we get." The players could get away with 65%.

And you absolutly need a floor. can't have a ceiling without a floor.

[MadDog2020]

You have to give to get the deal. Personally, I think the players are wrong on the linkage thing. They should negotiate a fair number similar to what the NFL's is. Think that's around 63. So, why not 60?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

60 is fair. Unfortunately for the players, they'll have that number decided for them in August. They can thank Mr. Goodenow for that. Idiots.

[Derek21]

Didn't they bring Gartner in as part of the process yesterday?

[MadDog2020]

right, well thats the thing.  No one would agree on whether or not linkage should be apart of the deal.  I don't think it should have been a discussion.  The discussion is "Okay, what percentage do we get."  The players could get away with 65%.

And you absolutly need a floor.  can't have a ceiling without a floor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree wholeheartedly- linkage should never have been a discussion. The players should've been content with a # between 60 and 65. But (and correct me if I'm wrong) I belive the owners only offered a max of 55. But no matter, the players didn't want linkage at all, unless they would benefit from it.

[MadDog2020]

Didn't they bring Gartner in as part of the process yesterday?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep- Gartner was at the table yesterday.

['7']

Also, we're not even factoring in if a $45 million cap were accepted, what happens to unrestricted free agency and RFA's and arbitration? Is the age going to be lowered for UFA status? These things would have to get sorted out as part of a new agreement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right, but those are issues either side was willing to part with in order to get a deal done. They could flip flop those either way they wanted. If they could clear the hurdle of a cap, the rest of the pieces would take about 15 minutes to figure out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it would take a little longer than that. They're both in need of new voices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gretzky for commish and Gartner for NHLPA executive director. Let a hockey player represent the hockey players. Not some blowfish-looking, arrogant, holier-than-thou, piece of sh!t laywer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

goodenow was a hockey player

bettman is the blowfish-looking, arrogant, holier-than-thou, piece of sh!t laywer. he's the one who destroyed hockey. how about somebody who represents the league, not a select few of his bastard franchises.

Edited February 20, 2005 by '7'

[njdevils_info]

I agree wholeheartedly- linkage should never have been a discussion. The players should've been content with a # between 60 and 65. But (and correct me if I'm wrong) I belive the owners only offered a max of 55. But no matter, the players didn't want linkage at all, unless they would benefit from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

55 was the figure offered by the owners, but the idea never went through any type of negotiation. The players just said "No."

65 was just a figure I threw out because I believe the owners would've said okay to this. And as 7 said, the owners are not loosing less money this yeat by not playing. They are loosing sponserships and tv deals and more. So both sides are screwed at this point.

[MadDog2020]

Also, we're not even factoring in if a $45 million cap were accepted, what happens to unrestricted free agency and RFA's and arbitration? Is the age going to be lowered for UFA status? These things would have to get sorted out as part of a new agreement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right, but those are issues either side was willing to part with in order to get a deal done. They could flip flop those either way they wanted. If they could clear the hurdle of a cap, the rest of the pieces would take about 15 minutes to figure out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it would take a little longer than that. They're both in need of new voices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gretzky for commish and Gartner for NHLPA executive director. Let a hockey player represent the hockey players. Not some blowfish-looking, arrogant, holier-than-thou, piece of sh!t laywer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

goodenow was a hockey player

bettman is the blowfish-looking, arrogant, holier-than-thou, piece of sh!t laywer. he's the one who destroyed hockey.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They're both blowfish-looking, arrogant, holier-than thou, piece of sh!t laywers, and I hate both their guts with a passion. And when did Goodenow play in the NHL?

[Derek21]

Haha. Goodenow looks like a bookworm. I never would have guessed he played any hockey.

To be honest, both guys have had their chances and neither were even involved in the talks yesterday. Maybe it's time for both to go and let new people try their hand at fixing this mess.

[njdevils_info]

goodenow was a hockey player

bettman is the blowfish-looking, arrogant, holier-than-thou, piece of sh!t laywer. he's the one who destroyed hockey. how about somebody who represents the league, not a select few of his bastard franchises.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

7, the same can be said about the players. We only hear from players who make lots, none of the little guys. I think we need not 1 person rules for either side, but in fact a group, with no leader. say 5-8 owners and 5-8 players, all from different pay/revenue brakets.

[njdevils_info]

Look at this!

Bob Goodenow

Right Wing

Born Oct 29 1952

Edited February 20, 2005 by njdevils_info