Patrick Elias overpaid?

[stevestevens]

The players like him, he dosent talk much but when he dose talk, the team listens. Marty is the captian of the team really but because he is a goalie he can be because he wouldnt be able to get over to the refs fast enough thne go back to net. Elias is an even tempered guy and will do the best for his players and keep his team in line. No, he is not Scott Stevens type captian material but youre underrating him.

[jsonnabend]

The players like him, he dosent talk much but when he dose talk, the team listens. Marty is the captian of the team really but because he is a goalie he can be because he wouldnt be able to get over to the refs fast enough thne go back to net. Elias is an even tempered guy and will do the best for his players and keep his team in line. No, he is not Scott Stevens type captian material but youre underrating him.

And how do you know all that? How do you know, for instance, "the team listens"?

He certainly wasn't able to motivate them against Ottawa (or motivate himself) as far as I could see.

Not trying to fight or flame, I just don't understand how any of us on the outside can make those kind of statements.

- Jeff

Edited July 14, 2007 by jsonnabend

[Triumph]

I think the Elias question is one of the more interesting ones. Good fodder for discussion, Crasher (and this is a discussion forum, isn't it?).

To me Elias is an enigma. He led the team in points last year with some pretty good numbers, and the party line is he's the "obvious choice" for captain as far as the players are concerned.

Even with all that said, every time I watched him he seemed too pretty with the puck, tried to do too much, and was afraid to shoot far too often. He rarely made franchise-player type moves with the puck. Above all, he never seemed to inspire much from his fellow players, although I'm not sure how I'm judging that.

So what's the bottom line? Do his points tell the real story, or are they misleading?

- Jeff

Elias quietly filed a million-dollar lawsuit against his old agents after the season. I think that coupled with the natural lull that comes after having a season like he had in 05-06 and a generally inert year for the Devils (last year in the building) reflected in his performance.

Elias got the best years out of Jason Arnott and Petr Sykora - they all got the best years out of each other. Patrik was the one worth keeping around, and it seems like Lou made the right decision. The odd thing about Patrik is that he can't be tabbed a shoot-first or pass-first kind of player - too often last year he became a pass-first player. He didn't seem mentally right all season, and he, Gomez, and Gionta didn't seem to quite get things going until the playoffs. I think it's unfair to criticize his playoff performance - but I do think Elias's struggles this year made his leadership ineffective; he was too busy dealing with his own problems to fire up the team. Still, he was always willing to try to throw a big hit or forecheck hard if that's what he felt the team needed.

His points tell the real story - he led the team in points. But his goals were way down, because he wasn't shooting enough and the shots he did take were bad ones. I think we see a rebound from last year's performance - I think we see 30-35 goals out of Elias this season, I think Zubrus is a much better center for him than Gomez - Elias traditionally isn't an off-the-rush scorer (though obviously he can do that) - just think of his most famous goals. That's where Elias excels - his touch around the net, his quick wrists, and deadly aim. We'll be seeing it for the next six years in Newark, and I think Elias welcomes the challenge to rebound from last season and prove that he deserves this contract and this captaincy.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Triumph

[mddevsfan]

Here's what you have to realize, Elias was very underpaid with his first two contracts. Secondly, could he have received that same money on the open market? Without question. I could have things mixed up, but I have heard that Sather offered him more money than the Devils last year and he turned it down. Part of me thinks he was signed before July 1st, so I could just be off here.

Now, want to say his production hasn't matched his salary? That is one thing. However, if that is the reason you are going to trade him, you are not going to get fair market value for his potential. You never do on salary dumps.

Edited July 14, 2007 by mddevsfan

[squishyx]

i like how everyone is saying he "will" return to form and he "will be worth it". There is no gaurentee of this. And honestly, there is no reason to expect him to be better, other then we WANT him to be better. Say what you want about Gomez, he and Elias were an important duo.

I can allready imagine the responses next year:

-Elias just had another off year, he was still recovering from hepititas

-Elias old agents were dragging the court battle on and on which affected his focus

-Elias gets a bad rep for being a bad captain because he doesnt have talent around him

-Just give it time, this was his fist year with Zuburus and they just started clicking at the end

Face it, Elias has not lived up to the contract and responsiblities of being a captain. It doesnt mean he is a bad player or we should get rid of him, but he deserves critisism. Leading the Devils in scoring is a stupid argument, that just means all the players underpreformed. We should get off his back because he sucked the least? no way. Elias could easilly put up 100point if he gets his act together, but until he does I still say he is over paid.

[olesha]

IMHO, the determining factor was the captaincy for his off-year. He took that job extremely seriously -- in the locker room and on the ice. On the ice, he tried to do way too much to prove he was deserving and capable. He put way too much pressure on himself to carry his line and carry his team. I agree he passed way too much. But then that was a common failing for the Devils last season.

Like others have said, he also was still having his blood count levels monitored.

I think this season, he's going to return to form. Gomez is gone. Elias will relax and go back to playing his game. Am really looking forward to see if he and Zubrus click. It could be interesting.

And considering the freaking contracts they're handing out in the new NHL, he's a bargain for what he does.

[NYGDevils32]

Elias isn't captain material. He is the kind of guy who is a great player when everybody isn't looking at him. He was better when Stevens was Captain. Not that he doesn

[Triumph]

i like how everyone is saying he "will" return to form and he "will be worth it". There is no gaurentee of this. And honestly, there is no reason to expect him to be better, other then we WANT him to be better. Say what you want about Gomez, he and Elias were an important duo.

[parise9]

elias leads by example not voice like what scotty used to do...he will get on track this year...and hopefully he will not be afraid to shot the puck once in awhile

[stevestevens]

When Elias dose good the Devils do good

[rjlover]

OK I'm glad someone finally brought up this question. Patti is a great player, but worth $7.5 a year I don't think so. Forsberg, Jagr, Mario and the yes the great one were players you would pay those kind of feds to at one point in careers. Crosby is worth every penny of the almost $9mill a year he is getting. Sure the Devils play defensive hockey, but you simply can't keep the great players from scoring goals. OK riddle me this......is Patrick Elias worth $1.2 mill a year more than Marty. Fine different position. Are they going to hang his number from the rafters when he retires....if he retires with the Devils? That would be NO.

When was the last time you sat on the edge of your seat knowing he would score a goal in a game. Kinda like we all did watching our second year wonder kid Zach.

He is a great player but we are not getting our moneys worth at that cost.

[Dadds3424]

i think elias is overpayed for the way he has been playing. if he steps it up and plays like he did before he got hepititus that his salary will be sutable

[UnderDogX]

Our best and most overall productive forward and captain is getting paid less than most forwards his age and talent if not all of them. He lives and dies by the Devils and bleeds Red and Black, there is no way he should be considered overpaid. He's consistently one of the best 2way fowards in the game regardless of stats. He plays hard every night puts his heart out on the ice every single game and and as I've noticed one of his most noticeable flaws that have been mentioned in this thread is he tries to do too much...I think I can live with the reasonable price who's most mentioned flaw is he tries too much...but of course that's just my two cents.

[UnderDogX]

Patti is a great player, but worth $7.5 a year I don't think so.

[stevestevens]

Hes worth the money no doubt, hes untouchable.

[SatansDevils]

Elias is not captain material or that type of player captain like Scotty was. there will never be another Scotty Stevens. One player who I think should have been the captain was Madden instead of Elias.

[devils26]

Elias is not captain material or that type of player captain like Scotty was. there will never be another Scotty Stevens. One player who I think should have been the captain was Madden instead of Elias.

I think you have to separate being captain material, and being as good of a captain as Stevens was. Sure, Elias is not as good of a captain as Stevens, but that isn't really saying much. I think Elias can be as pretty good captain; he just needs one more year to learn.

[puckrock]

IMHO, the determining factor was the captaincy for his off-year. He took that job extremely seriously -- in the locker room and on the ice. On the ice, he tried to do way too much to prove he was deserving and capable. He put way too much pressure on himself to carry his line and carry his team. I agree he passed way too much. But then that was a common failing for the Devils last season.

Like others have said, he also was still having his blood count levels monitored.

I think this season, he's going to return to form. Gomez is gone. Elias will relax and go back to playing his game. Am really looking forward to see if he and Zubrus click. It could be interesting.

And considering the freaking contracts they're handing out in the new NHL, he's a bargain for what he does.

Bingo.

It was clear that Patrik put wayyy too much pressure on himself this past season. He obviously felt that he needed to bare a lot more weight then he's used to, for the betterment of the team. Couple that, with the ongoing problems with his former agents, I don't blame the guy for having his head up his ass the whole season. Hopefully, that will all be sorted out and he will come to camp with a clear mind. The team is fresh, with new guys like Zubrus, that hopefully will give Elias a new creative spark.

Now, Is Patrik overpaid? No. Not in this day and age. Be happy he was a free agent when he was and not this summer, or the Devils would be paying far out the ass for him. You have to remember, he earned his contract because of his play in the second part of 2006, and the subsequent playoff series vs. NYR. I do believe that he will get back to that form in the very near future. He just needs to relax, and not grip the stick as tight, as we'll see the Patrik Elias we all are accustomed to.

Does he deserve the 'C'? I'm torn on that topic. The only other player I would give the captaincy to would be Parise, but he's far too young to carry that load, but his intensity and work ethic make it hard to dismiss the thought.

All in all, I'm looking forward to this season. I do believe Elias will be back to his old form, and the team as a whole will look rejuvenated.

[jsonnabend]

He obviously felt that he needed to bare a lot more weight then he's used to, for the betterment of the team.

But isn't that what captains are supposed to do?

And an earlier poster said something about there being no other player of Elias' "caliber" playing at the same price. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Elias' caliber is.

For a "stupid thread" there certainly are some varying opinions here.

- Jeff

[stevestevens]

Elias is a very high player. When he was an UFA the Devils, Rangers, Blackhawks, Habs etc all went after him. Hes a player most teams want because hes storng on both sides of the puck, and remeber last year was a down year.

[puckrock]

But isn't that what captains are supposed to do?

And an earlier poster said something about there being no other player of Elias' "caliber" playing at the same price. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Elias' caliber is.

For a "stupid thread" there certainly are some varying opinions here.

- Jeff

Thanks for pointing that out. Honestly, I meant to right "...than he's supposed to".

Stupid Sudafed.

Edited July 14, 2007 by puckrock

[Triumph]

But isn't that what captains are supposed to do?

And an earlier poster said something about there being no other player of Elias' "caliber" playing at the same price. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Elias' caliber is.

For a "stupid thread" there certainly are some varying opinions here.

- Jeff

Elias is a tough player to pin down because of the way the Devils use their checking line and defensemen. Since 03, Elias has been playing with Gomez - but he has not played minutes comparable to other superstars, and is often the last line in the rotation at even strength. Furthermore, very often the third pairing was used with the Elias line, meaning defenders like Alex Brooks, Richard Smehlik, Tommy Albelin, Ray Giroux, etc. etc. were the ones being relied on to get the puck to the forwards.

Elias would probably score 4-5 more goals a season if the Devils didn't do this - and I don't notice most teams doing this with their best players either.

[squishyx]

Ya know, Jagr turned down the captaincy with the rangers because he felt that he didnt want the pressure and also because his english wasnt so great I believe.

Elias could have turned this down and taken that route if he didnt want the pressure. Infact while I dont think the words ever came from his mouth, a big thing he wanted before signing with the devils was the "C" as many of the people at this very boards were screaming at Lou for not giving to him.

He brought allthis pressure onto himself, he signed his lucrative contract and he hasnt lived up to it. He doesnt deserve any slack or more time, he deserves all the criticism he gets. I like him as much as the next guy but dont step up to the plate if you cant bat. There are plenty of character guys who couldhave burdened the C this last year if Elias couldnt handle the disctraction.

[coldply123]

I remember being very hard on Elias last season.

I complained about his salary considering his production and performance wasnt commensurate.

After what has transpired this month, I TAKE ALL OF IT BACK.

Elias is now fairly compensated. Gomez is the most grossly overpaid player in hockey, with Briere a close second.

While Elias disappointed me with his lack of decision-making and seeming inability to create better shots for himself or take them for that matter, he is still an elite forward with excellent skating ability, vision, and offensive skills.

I for one think he may fare slightly better without Gomez, as Elias is a player who likes to have the puck to make a decision rather than rely on a speedster like Gomez to penetrate the zone and have to figure a way to position himself to receive an opening.

I may be wrong, but if you think back to when the A-line was together, Elias was the "Gomez" on that line in terms of his speed and playmaking ability. Arnott was the space-eating center, Sykora was the shot, but Elias was the pure skill.

[Dadds3424]

I remember being very hard on Elias last season.

I complained about his salary considering his production and performance wasnt commensurate.

After what has transpired this month, I TAKE ALL OF IT BACK.

Elias is now fairly compensated. Gomez is the most grossly overpaid player in hockey, with Briere a close second.

While Elias disappointed me with his lack of decision-making and seeming inability to create better shots for himself or take them for that matter, he is still an elite forward with excellent skating ability, vision, and offensive skills.

I for one think he may fare slightly better without Gomez, as Elias is a player who likes to have the puck to make a decision rather than rely on a speedster like Gomez to penetrate the zone and have to figure a way to position himself to receive an opening.

I may be wrong, but if you think back to when the A-line was together, Elias was the "Gomez" on that line in terms of his speed and playmaking ability. Arnott was the space-eating center, Sykora was the shot, but Elias was the pure skill.

i hope last season was just and after effect of his hepititus