Lou and Sutter are delusional

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

132-72-24, is in first or won the division every season.

05-06 - 8th best record in league, 4th in EC

06-07 - 7th best record in league, 2nd in EC

07-08 - 3rd best record in league, 1st in EC

It has been a struggle as a fan enduring all this winning....oh, I mean struggling.

Yeah, the team's really been crappy.

Although the regular season records continue to be strong, the last three playoff runs haven't been great by any stretch. Still, teams don't tend to go on deep runs year after year after year, and outside of the Cup runs the Devils usually go out within the first two rounds:

Starting with the '93-'94 season, when the Devils went from being middle-of-the-pack to an elite team:

'93-'94: out in ECF

'94-'95: Cup

'95-'96: missed playoffs

'96-'97: out in 2nd

'97-'98: out in 1st

'98-'99: out in 1st

'99-'00: Cup

'00-'01: out in SCF

'01-'02: out in 1st

'02-'03: Cup

'03-'04: out in 1st

'05-'06: out in 2nd

'06-'07: out in 2nd

So winning the Cup in '95, the Devils have been knocked out in the first two rounds in seven out of the last 10 playoff runs. And take a look at the four years between the '95 and '00 Cup wins...exactly one playoff series win in that stretch. Was Lou "losing his touch" then?

BTW, if you check out Detroit's playoff record over that stretch you'll find that it's not all that much different. Even with all of the big names they've had, they've also had their share of early-round exits. It's just not that easy to go deep every year.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Devilish34]

"Good is not good enough when better is expected." -- Lou Lamoriello

And they have been doing/getting better

[msweet]

i'm fine with it. you can't put just two pairings out there for the entire OT. greene was soft twice and it lead to goals. i have no problem with sutter calling him out.

Agree... need to have 6 defensemen.... why weren't the veterans playing?...VV and Rachunek, or at least one of them? That's coaches' decision.

Scott Niedermayer might give up some goals with Brookbank as his partner.

[Elias26]

Any ideas who would be next in line to replace Lou? His son?

[Devils731]

Any ideas who would be next in line to replace Lou? His son?

I have nothing to back this up other than hearing some rumors but I've heard Conte's name mentioned for the hockey side a few times.

[Devilsdude530]

We never, ever looked like we even had a remote chance against either of those teams.

Oh shut up, we did have a chance, at least in the Carolina series.

If Brad Lukowich, you know, does ANYTHING to Staal in THE LAST TEN SECONDS OF GAME 2, than we're likely going into that Game 5 we lost in Cryolina AT LEAST tied at 2.

What if they call interference on the Preissing goal in Game 3 of the Ottawa series, like it should have been?

Yeah, 3 1-goal losses and 1 1-goal + an empty netter loss. We were really out of that one.

Again, what ifs, but it pisses me off when you say we didn't have a chance.

[NJDevs4978]

WTF is Lou thinking? I'm starting to think he is believing his own B.S. Does anyone think this current Devils team is that good, that a Hossa, Campbell, etc. wouldn't have helped. Lockeroom chemistry doesn't score goals. Do Sutter and Lou think this team would be above .500 if Weekes, who is a descent NHL goalie, were the starter. Lou and Sutter, Hello, the whole team is Martin Brodeur. Get real, please.

If the whole team is really Brodeur then how's he supposed to magically come up with the assets to get Hossa or Campbell? They don't have the assets, partly because they've lost a ton of key players to FA and retirement since the lockout and partly because of Lou's own questionable drafting. Most of the good draft picks we do have are currently playing on the team.

Where was Sutter ranting when we stole that game from Washington? His blaming Greene last night was some of the biggest chump crvp I've seen from a coach in along time. Greene is basically a rookie. Why did you sit millions of dollars worth of defensemen (Rachunek & VV) and play 2 inexperienced players together, no less ... and have them out there when the game is on the line against the other's team's top line? Greene's fault or coaches fault? Who was Greene's partner?

A 26-year old rookie. You and some other people talk as if Greene's a 19-year old wide-eyed kid. If a 26-year old man can't take being called out by the coach than he shouldn't be on the team.

Why wasn't Sutter calling out his forwards making like a total of $30 mil per on not even generating one scoring chance until the 3rd period (Gionta's goal was garbage and luck)? Do Lou and Sutter think our offense is good enough? I hate to say it, but read (N)Єverson this AM... he's dead on.

Yeah and people were crabbing and moaning when he DID call out the forwards earlier in the season specifically Elias. He's called out the whole team time and again in the locker room and the press, how much is he supposed to do it before that wears thin?

So the only thing I can conclude, is that Lou has made a big miscalculation and Sutter doesn't know what he's doing. Martin Brodeur should win the Jack Adams and the award for the best GM is sport. Other than draft Martin Brodeur and Scott Niedermayer, steal Scott Stevens, what great things has Lou really done?

He's drafted around 50 or so players currently playing in the NHL, a bunch of whom left the Devils either via trade or UFA and kept the team competitive every year when fans and pundits think they're going to suck.

Oh and on a final note: The trade for El Salvador, on paper, is a good one... but after all of this locker room chemistry talk, trading him was hypocritical... and why do that with a fan favorite, to barely (if at all) improve your team?

Cam was not playing 'at all' this year and he wasn't going to crack the lineup as is. Basically the Devils traded a goon they didn't need and now have a ninth defenseman they won't use.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Hasan4978

[SueNJ97]

I'd say the real 'problem' people are having is that the team, for what it is, has actually over-achieved. And, that probably is, as msweet points out, due to Marty, who is proving everyone who thought he was a product of the defense and the 'system', for all those years, well, wrong. Damn.

However, let's face it, the fact that they even got a sniff at #1 in the conference is due to Ottawa basically imploding, in part because of those weeks when most of their offense was out (they haven't gotten back on track) but also because their presumptive #1 goaltender is a jerk and, unlike Patrick Roy, he isn't a jerk with amazing talent so he's also completely disruptive to the team when it isn't all going completely well.

The team has very little depth that could step right in and fill in right now. Everything it has in on the ice. Actually, when I saw Gainey explaining why Hossa went to Pittsburgh last night, I understood the logic, exactly. Atlanta was asking for 4 pieces, 3 of which were skating and integral to his team. So, f*ck them, basically, although Gainey wouldn't say that. I wasn't particularly thrilled with Hossa as a post-season player and, for NJ, that's the issue. Unless something weird (knock on wood) happens, they will make the playoffs. But what happens then? In any case, Atlanta would have asked for a similar package. Montreal, which has more depth in the system, wouldn't do it. Should Lou have done it?

The run at the conference title has raised expectations beyond what may be possible. Thus, people are looking for management to do something that the assets available can't do (if you wanted Richards, basically, you had to give Tampa a younger goalie that was ready to be a #1. Weekes isn't really that goalie).

[Devilish34]

So winning the Cup in '95, the Devils have been knocked out in the first two rounds in seven out of the last 10 playoff runs. And take a look at the four years between the '95 and '00 Cup wins...exactly one playoff series win in that stretch. Was Lou "losing his touch" then?

No because we have short term memory at NJDEVS

We could win it all this year then next year start out like we did this season

and Lou would be losing hi touch all over again. Whats funny is wait until

Lou is gone we'll be saying the same about Sutter. (Which I believe is why he is here)

[xxchaznjxx]

i wonder if people here who are thinking that lou is going to make a splash in free agency in this coming off season realize that the devils won't be the only team trying to land players. and with lou's history of signing free agents(how many big name FA's has he signed?) and his history of not overpaying, i wouldn't hold my breath on a big free agent splash this summer. i was hoping for something along the trade route but i wasn't upset that he didn't since the devils didn't seem to have the pieces to pull off a good trade this year. but i also believe that he's not going to overpay for someone next season. i said this yesterday, but the only thing i was disappointed with was the fact that we have no depth at forward in case of injury. we'll just have to see.

by the way, who are the big name free agents next year, other than campbell(who i can absolutely see SJ re-signing) and hossa?

[msweet]

I'd say the real 'problem' people are having is that the team, for what it is, has actually over-achieved. And, that probably is, as msweet points out, due to Marty, who is proving everyone who thought he was a product of the defense and the 'system', for all those years, well, wrong. Damn.

Exactly what I was trying to say. We are a .500 team that has a shot, because of Marty. Lou and Sutter are delusional if they think it is for any other reason.

And when Lou doesn't even do anything to "Help" Marty, and says he likes the teams chances... it makes me wonder what they are really thinking.

And Sutter needs to stop the punishment games and play his best players (not Brookbank)

And Sutter needs to rest Marty.... but doing that will surely prove my point.

[UnderDogX]

I don't think anyone is arguing with the regular season winning...of course we are spoiled we have a consistently good team put on the ice every year...but there is a difference between the regular season and the post season...the fact is we are stuck in this ambiguous complacency....we are too good to accept defeat and rebuild but we aren't good enough to have a seriously strong post season push without Marty staying hot and getting a lot of luck...

No one, at least from what I've read seems to be arguing about the regular season wins but what do we do in the post season....that's what really matters and the answer is...we aren't doing enough...

[Beetlebum]

you can't expect amazing drafts when when we nearly have the last pick every year.

[PaDevsFan]

Well for those who know me for the years I've been out here on the board, and my title, "voice of reason"... I am slow to issue verdict... and I have stayed basically silent about the nature of the team this year... but after yesterday, the combination of the trade deadline and the game last night, I think its time to rant.

I apologize in advance for the length of this.

WTF is Lou thinking? I'm starting to think he is believing his own B.S. Does anyone think this current Devils team is that good, that a Hossa, Campbell, etc. wouldn't have helped. Lockeroom chemistry doesn't score goals. Do Sutter and Lou think this team would be above .500 if Weekes, who is a descent NHL goalie, were the starter. Lou and Sutter, Hello, the whole team is Martin Brodeur. Get real, please.

Now I may be proven wrong, when the Devils reach the finals, but I'll bet some serious dough that this team is a first round exit. Our winning streaks were a combination of some good luck, some good scheduling and a lot of Martin Brodeur. (Think about the current 5 game streak)

Where was Sutter ranting when we stole that game from Washington? His blaming Greene last night was some of the biggest chump crvp I've seen from a coach in along time. Greene is basically a rookie. Why did you sit millions of dollars worth of defensemen (Rachunek & VV) and play 2 inexperienced players together, no less ... and have them out there when the game is on the line against the other's team's top line? Greene's fault or coaches fault? Who was Greene's partner?

Why wasn't Sutter calling out his forwards making like a total of $30 mil per on not even generating one scoring chance until the 3rd period (Gionta's goal was garbage and luck)? Do Lou and Sutter think our offense is good enough? I hate to say it, but read (N)Єverson this AM... he's dead on.

So what is Lou doing? I'm guessing he's just delusional or he's deceitful. Delusional, if he thinks this team is getting out of the first round (without Marty going wild). Deceitful if he really knows this team svcks and just is playing for next year (when some of the younger players are progressing like Tri has spoken about here)... and if the latter is the case, why play Brodeur so much?

So the only thing I can conclude, is that Lou has made a big miscalculation and Sutter doesn't know what he's doing. Martin Brodeur should win the Jack Adams and the award for the best GM is sport. Other than draft Martin Brodeur and Scott Niedermayer, steal Scott Stevens, what great things has Lou really done?

It seems the Devils have become a put Marty in goal, and let's make believe we have a great hockey team in front of him.

I hate to say it, but my Devils have become a boring, one-goalie show...going nowhere, with a delusional GM.

But I still love them.

Oh and on a final note: The trade for El Salvador, on paper, is a good one... but after all of this locker room chemistry talk, trading him was hypocritical... and why do that with a fan favorite, to barely (if at all) improve your team?

YOu bring up (N)Єverson, and (N)Єverson makes the point about replacing Gomer... I didnt want Hossa, he does not "fit" in New Jersey./ Lang on the other hand would have been a fit, and at 6-2 215 would have been a nice big center, and he is having a very good season this yr. That one I think could have been done for not a ton in return, just a thought...

[Triumph]

The edge in trading is gone and Lou doesn't have a big edge in free agency. His previous edges were drafting and trading, mostly - and he hasn't drafted well.

This is just a holding pattern for 08-09 and beyond. The Devils will still have all the same assets for next year. Presumably they will sign Halischuk. Palmieri looked tremendous. The team is excited about Matt Corrente. Hell, Vili Sopanen is having a tremendous year in Finland.

Whatever happens this year is gravy and so far there's been a lot of that. Johnny Oduya looks like a legitimate top 4 defenseman lately.

[devilsfan26]

I never understand why people assume that just because we don't sign a player or make a trade that he didn't put out an offer and the other team/free agent just didn't take the offer.

If you're talking about the teams chances in the playoffs, who cares if they are overachieving now, if they can be overachieving ever since that bad start ended up until now, why can't they overachieve in the playoffs?

As for resting Marty, he played one hell of a game on Sunday which was the 2nd game of a back to back, and I don't remember the last time Weekes played, so these "rest Marty" complaints need to stop. As someone else pointed out a week or two ago, playing Marty 5 less games or so is not going to make a drastic difference in the playoffs, and the reason we lost to Carolina had nothing to do with him being tired because he had a week off after the Rangers series, and Ottawa was just too good last year.

you can't expect amazing drafts when when we nearly have the last pick every year.

It's nice to see someone else realizes this.

[sundstrom]

My thnking is that our splash is going to come in free agency...we'll have plenty of money to spend and get that big upgrade at center and D we have all been salivating for. As a result, I'm going to hold my Lou criticism until then. If he fails tp pick someone up over the summer and we go into next season with 12 million dollars of cap space floating around, then I'll point a finger at our beloved GM. As I've said before, the man is nowhere near perfect and he's made his mistakes but I can't kill him for not making a panic move.

by the way, who are the big name free agents next year, other than campbell(who i can absolutely see SJ re-signing) and hossa?

this is my concern as well - who besides campbell is out there in UFA to sign that's really any good? an aging rolston? hossa who will cost the moon and wouldn't come to NJ anyway? i think Lou's play will be at the draft via trade.

you can't expect amazing drafts when when we nearly have the last pick every year.

or you're dealing them to clean up mistakes - the general thought is correct though. who was the last top 10 pick the devils had?

[MadDog2020]

Just to add my two cents on this whole matter, I'm tired of people complaining that we have 9 defensemen. In actuality we have 5 NHL defensemen (White, Salv, Martin, Rach and Vish), 2 budding NHL defensmen (Oduya, Greene) and two AHLers who should still be there (Mottau, Brookbank).

Yesterday, my best friend went on a 20 minute rant very similar to msweets. While they both make good points, I posed only one question to my friend...does any of the players mentioned in the trade talks make us an immediate Cup favorite and if so, who and who are you willing to give up for them. No good answer was given...and that's why Lou didn't make his big splash yesterday.

Personally, I'm glad Lou didn't make a big splash yesterday. My thnking is that our splash is going to come in free agency...we'll have plenty of money to spend and get that big upgrade at center and D we have all been salivating for. As a result, I'm going to hold my Lou criticism until then. If he fails tp pick someone up over the summer and we go into next season with 12 million dollars of cap space floating around, then I'll point a finger at our beloved GM. As I've said before, the man is nowhere near perfect and he's made his mistakes but I can't kill him for not making a panic move.

Great post man. I agree with this 100%. Bottom line is there was nobody out there that was worth overpaying for, and that's exactly what Lou would've had to do if he wanted a Campbell or a Hossa (two guys who would've been UFA's with no guarantees of staying). Since we will have a ton of cap room heading into the summer, I want to see Lou make a run at the upgrades we need then as opposed to mortaging a Clarkson or a Zajac or a Corrente at the deadline. Lou did all he could yesterday, of that I'm sure. I won't disagree that his post-lockout track record has been subpar, but there are 29 other teams that would love to take Lou off our hands, of that I'm also sure.

[SueNJ97]

The edge in trading is gone and Lou doesn't have a big edge in free agency. His previous edges were drafting and trading, mostly - and he hasn't drafted well.

This is just a holding pattern for 08-09 and beyond. The Devils will still have all the same assets for next year. Presumably they will sign Halischuk. Palmieri looked tremendous. The team is excited about Matt Corrente. Hell, Vili Sopanen is having a tremendous year in Finland.

Whatever happens this year is gravy and so far there's been a lot of that. Johnny Oduya looks like a legitimate top 4 defenseman lately.

I think people are really frustrated because the East appears to be so unsettled that they are thinking, hey, Marty is having one of those years, they could make it to the Finals if Lou had done something, anything, for the offense. And, let's face it, there are years for Marty and then there are years. And it looks like this might be one the YEARS. However, if the team hits the second round and suddenly can't score, it simply won't matter.

I will say this. I didn't know Fedorov was slated to be a UFA this summer, I thought he had another year on his contract. He's massively overpaid and he's now a complimentary player but in the right system he can still contribute. He can play defense. I wouldn't have minded seeing them pick him up for a prospect but hey, what's done is done.

[Devils731]

Exactly what I was trying to say. We are a .500 team that has a shot, because of Marty. Lou and Sutter are delusional if they think it is for any other reason.

And when Lou doesn't even do anything to "Help" Marty, and says he likes the teams chances... it makes me wonder what they are really thinking.

What do you expect Lou to say? "Well I know this years team isn't that good but my plan is to be really strong over the next 3 seasons so I didn't want to trade any of the future away for an ambiguous present."? I'm trying to remember how many teams in first have had their GM come out and say their team can't compete despite winning. If I come up with one I'll let you know.

You seem to want it both ways, the team stinks after Marty but also is a cup contender if they made a move. Bring in Hossa or Campbell was not going to do that.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I don't know about everyone else here, but I am thoroughly enjoying this year. The team looked like absolute garbage at the beginning and Sutter has found somehow to turn that trash into a team that can compete every night for the most part. I think it's pretty interesting how he and the team have been forced to adapt in order to try and win.

Now this team is not elite, but it can compete for the cup. Its easily one of the 5 best teams in the east. To imagine that after the lows of the beginning of the year is pretty amazing I think. We have a lot of weaknesses, and Lou will try and deal with those in the offseason, just like he did this trading deadline. Just deal with the facts

1. the Trades were not there

2. if you want to sign big name guys you need to commit for 6+ years.

3. We draft near the bottom of the first round every year.

Lou's made smart moves in my mind with this in mind, making the most out of what he's got. Which is not much.

[Devs4LIFE]

Complaining about being eliminated from the playoffs EVERY year is foolish since there are teams that complain about not making the playoffs every season.

[SC Devs Fan]

you can't expect amazing drafts when when we nearly have the last pick every year.

[devilsrule33]

Oh shut up, we did have a chance, at least in the Carolina series.

If Brad Lukowich, you know, does ANYTHING to Staal in THE LAST TEN SECONDS OF GAME 2, than we're likely going into that Game 5 we lost in Cryolina AT LEAST tied at 2.

What if they call interference on the Preissing goal in Game 3 of the Ottawa series, like it should have been?

Yeah, 3 1-goal losses and 1 1-goal + an empty netter loss. We were really out of that one.

Again, what ifs, but it pisses me off when you say we didn't have a chance.

What's the point in telling a guy to shut up?

The Ottawa series had a lot of one goal games but we were completely outplayed if you remember watching the games. We were an OT Sens power play goal away from being swept. The Devils couldn't even get to the net or get a scoring chance in that series.

What do you guys want Lou to do other than draft a hell of a lot better? We have no pieces to trade. We got a solid defenseman for Cam friggen Janssen. How do you think Blues fans felt about that?

For those of you who wanted Rafalski back...are you aware he took a hometown discount to play with the Wings? Who knows what ridiculous offer he passed up. And I am sure you would be praising Lou if we kept him and in 2012 when Marty is about to retire, we can't help our team win one more because a 40 year old Rafalski has a 7 million cap hit.

You guys should stop complaining. We have Marty Brodeur locked up for the rest of his career at 5 million (The same amount that Mike Ribiero will be making next season). We have our top forward locked up for a little over 3 million a year. We have our captain locked up for 3 million long term as well as one of our most reliable defenders in Colin White. Paul Martin is here for the long run. All of these contracts continue to look even better going forward as the cap keeps getting higher. Add Zajac and Oduya into the mix and we're looking good.

The Devils have no major UFAs to sign leading us to have some greap cap room in the off-season.

This team is in good shape.

Edited February 27, 2008 by devilsrule33

[Sickman]

It took a lot of time to get through this thread but there were a lot of good points in here. Honestly, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this because I will include myself in this group as well sometimes, but some Devils fans are just really spoiled.

If you really follow this team and give a sh*t about how they do, then I can understand why you would be upset when it seems like we don't have a chance to reach the ultimate goal, but to call out Lou you have to be out of your minds. Do you guys realize that the Devils are one of the best managed teams in all of sports. Maybe the marketing sucks, but when it comes to results and consistency, there are few organizations, if any that are better then The Devils. Lou makes mistakes, he's human. But the good far outweighs the bad. It's not even close.

As a fan of this team, you never have to endure having a sh*t team. Thank Lou and his cronies for that one. Try complaining about this crap to a die hard Knicks or Jets fan, or even a Rangers fan for that matter. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I could name so many other teams but I'd be here all day writing this. Sometimes we really don't know how well we have it as fans.

I guess my point is this. Yes its tough to be in a position where the team looks like a long shot to win it all but it could be so much worse. When you look at the big picture it really isn't all that bad. Just enjoy the rest of the season cause there are not many games left

Edited February 27, 2008 by SickMan