NJDevs4978 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Can we please, please, PLEASE get a third party in this country?! I'm sick and tired of both sides screwing everything up and then blaming the other and using every little thing as a political stunt. The Republicans (other than Bush) should deal with foreign policy, let the Democrats deal with the economy and things'll be a lot better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsadvoc8 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Shouldn't you fault bush or other top republican leaders too as well? Not saying she helped the cause at all but I think she made a decent point, say the democrats went all in on this and the republicans backed off, that's a huge blow to absorb for the party.Market rebounded nicely, up 200 points in the last 10 minutes, that normal? Market probably rebounded based upon end of day buying at sale prices. Pelosi has to take the lion's share of blame on this. From the linked article 40% of her own party didn't back it. How did she think it would pass or was she just throwing it out there to waste time? As the house leader she should be working with both sides of the aisle to get the right thing done for the best interests of America. If it means no bailout or a bailout or a loan, fine, if that is their decision but don't go halfway like this. Can her ratings go negative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueNJ97 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Can we please, please, PLEASE get a third party in this country?! I'm sick and tired of both sides screwing everything up and then blaming the other and using every little thing as a political stunt. The Republicans (other than Bush) should deal with foreign policy, let the Democrats deal with the economy and things'll be a lot better off. I'd like a third party. I'm not sure it's realistic, based on what usually happens. Since neither of the 2 major parties actually represents me, I would vote for one if I could find one I liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Market probably rebounded based upon end of day buying at sale prices.Pelosi has to take the lion's share of blame on this. From the linked article 40% of her own party didn't back it. How did she think it would pass or was she just throwing it out there to waste time? As the house leader she should be working with both sides of the aisle to get the right thing done for the best interests of America. If it means no bailout or a bailout or a loan, fine, if that is their decision but don't go halfway like this. Can her ratings go negative? Pretty sure she had been saying all along she was going to deliver 60% of the Democrats vote, I could be wrong though. How can the market go down after it closes? is it just lagging behind? it's dropped like 80 points since 4pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I'd like a third party. I'm not sure it's realistic, based on what usually happens. Since neither of the 2 major parties actually represents me, I would vote for one if I could find one I liked. I know it's not realistic, and that's too bad because both sides are so polarized it's ridiculous. Dems want to cry about Republicans' feelings being hurt, fine - a lot of Dems didn't even vote for the bailout! Repubs want to whine about Dems excluding them from the process or whatever happened, well too bad - maybe if your congress and president didn't screw up the economy in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess I just hope both sides come to their senses and hammer out a deal in the next couple days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsadvoc8 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 #1 there is after market trading #2 Why just 60%? Why all the blaming rhetoric? Why didn't she work with people across the aisle instead of the constant insults? maybe if your congress and president didn't screw up the economy in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess What were the specific Bush or "Republican" policies that contributed/caused the current financial crisis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueNJ97 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Pretty sure she had been saying all along she was going to deliver 60% of the Democrats vote, I could be wrong though. How can the market go down after it closes? is it just lagging behind? it's dropped like 80 points since 4pm. I believe there are some stocks but not all that allow after-hours trading. The market is closed but trading continues on some of them. That's probably what you are seeing. On Pelosi - she's the Speaker. It's up to her to understand whether the votes are there for the bill, not just the Democratic votes, but the Republican votes. Hoyer is responsible for delivering the Democratic votes. She is responsible for understanding whether the total votes are there - or it doesn't come to the floor. If you are saying someone on the other side lied to her, make that clear. But she has to know what is going to happen before she takes it to the floor. Apparently, she didn't. She and Hoyer expected it to pass. That's unnacceptable. And I'm an independent. I have no great love for either side, I just want some competence. That's not on display here. It is possible that individual Republican and Democratic representatives lied to their leadership and therefore bad info went up to the House leadership - but I doubt it. I think they didn't do their pre-vote count correctly and heard what they wanted to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 (edited) On Pelosi - she's the Speaker. It's up to her to understand whether the votes are there for the bill, not just the Democratic votes, but the Republican votes. Hoyer is responsible for delivering the Democratic votes. She is responsible for understanding whether the total votes are there - or it doesn't come to the floor. If you are saying someone on the other side lied to her, make that clear. But she has to know what is going to happen before she takes it to the floor. Apparently, she didn't. She and Hoyer expected it to pass. That's unnacceptable. From my understanding, she has been saying 60% of the Democrats and was expecting 100 republicans which by my math would be 241 in favor. Idk who lied, who bailed out, who switched last second but if she has been saying 60% of her party all along, to me she fulfilled that promise. But I don't have links for that and so I may be mistaken. I remember the "100" republicans thing though quite clearly. link Best link I could come up with: House Democratic Whip James Clyburn of South Carolina, told Reuters "We have more than half of our caucus that are going to vote for this bill." He said if half of Democrats voted for it, 100 Republican votes would be necessary to push the legislation to House passage. I believe there are some stocks but not all that allow after-hours trading. The market is closed but trading continues on some of them. That's probably what you are seeing. Ah, so does that mean they use the 4pm price to determine how much the Dow fell in the day? or just the current value when ever they report it? Edited September 29, 2008 by squishyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueNJ97 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 From my understanding, she has been saying 60% of the Democrats and was expecting 100 republicans which by my math would be 241 in favor. Idk who lied, who bailed out, who switched last second but if she has been saying 60% of her party all along, to me she fulfilled that promise. But I don't have links for that and so I may be mistaken. I remember the "100" republicans thing though quite clearly.Ah, so does that mean they use the 4pm price to determine how much the Dow fell in the day? or just the current value when ever they report it? I believe, and can correct me if I am wrong, that they quote the 4pm stats for the amount it fell in the day and then will say things like "and stock X fell blah in after-hours trading". I have to disagree with you. Even Salon.com, which loves the Dems and Obama about as much as you can (except the Daily Kos and Huffington these days) says it didn't pass because Pelosi, Hoyer and the Dems couldn't count. I think we are just going to disagree on this. There was no, no margin for error, they needed to be sure they could hit it and that no Republicans were changing their votes. Apparently, the Dems did deliver 140 votes, but she has to keep counting the Republican votes before brining it to the floor and she didn't do it. That's what I mean by not doing her job. She's the Speaker. Not the Democratic leader. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 And if this bill hadn't come up for a vote today, all the a$$hole Republicans would be blaming Pelosi for holding the bill back due to some sort of anti-American agenda. They're all just looking for an excuse to blame the Democrats for everything, standard operating procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilMinder Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 At this point they need to stop blaming and do something. Both parties are to blame for this, nobody can claim innocence. The rest of us have to watch our savings/stock crash like no tomorrow. Nothing like seeing my 401K say down 20% for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Shouldn't you fault bush or other top republican leaders too as well? Not saying she helped the cause at all but I think she made a decent point, say the democrats went all in on this and the republicans backed off, that's a huge blow to absorb for the party.Market rebounded nicely, up 200 points in the last 10 minutes, that normal? So 60% is all in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 And if this bill hadn't come up for a vote today, all the a$$hole Republicans would be blaming Pelosi for holding the bill back due to some sort of anti-American agenda. They're all just looking for an excuse to blame the Democrats for everything, standard operating procedure. Kind of beat me to it. I don't think you can hold her feet to the fire for doing what she said she would, there are a lot of people to blame for this mess, to pin in mostly on her is wrong. When there was no vote mid day the markets were down 400 points, even if they closed that way and waited to make sure they had the votes to pass it tomorrow people would be blaming her for "wasting a day" and letting the markets slip needlessly. She can't make the republicans support the bill, she needed (well, actually the president and Paulson needed) 100 republicans and only got 65, the blame for that should fall on the republican leadership more or at least as much as Pelosi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 At this point they need to stop blaming and do something. Both parties are to blame for this, nobody can claim innocence. The rest of us have to watch our savings/stock crash like no tomorrow. Nothing like seeing my 401K say down 20% for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueNJ97 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 And if this bill hadn't come up for a vote today, all the a$$hole Republicans would be blaming Pelosi for holding the bill back due to some sort of anti-American agenda. They're all just looking for an excuse to blame the Democrats for everything, standard operating procedure. Now I remember why I don't post on this part of the board. Thanks for what you just called me. I'll just leave again. It's just not worth it. I get called a communist by the Republicans and you know what? I've been called for money over 8 times by Obama and called things I simply won't repeat when I simply ask questions about his programs. I can't take this anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 So 60% is all in? No, 60% is the Democrats not going all in, something they wanted to avoid, and something they did avoid. I wasn't trying to argue that they were fully supporting this, rather against that notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Pelosi blames Bush This is the sh!t I'm talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Now I remember why I don't post on this part of the board. Thanks for what you just called me. I'll just leave again. It's just not worth it. I get called a communist by the Republicans and you know what? I've been called for money over 8 times by Obama and called things I simply won't repeat when I simply ask questions about his programs. I can't take this anymore. I can't quite say I fully understand where that came from. Pelosi blames Bush This is the sh!t I'm talking about So it's ok to blame Pelosi but not to blame Bush? You aren't being very consistent here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 So it's ok to blame Pelosi but not to blame Bush? You aren't being very consistent here. That was not a necessary speech prior to voting. There are things that are to blame on both parties as I said before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOULAM1 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 At this point they need to stop blaming and do something. Both parties are to blame for this, nobody can claim innocence. The rest of us have to watch our savings/stock crash like no tomorrow. Nothing like seeing my 401K say down 20% for the year. I just took my 401K, cashed in and now I'm invested in wine futures. I'll hold off on the three cases of Boone's for about 3 weeks and let it age nicely in my cellar. Once chilled to perfection, everyone can come over and we'll drink to my retirement fund. See ya soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Pelosi blames Bush This is the sh!t I'm talking about Eh? Bush definitely bears a hell of a lot more blame for getting us to where we are today than Pelosi does for this bill not passing. And speaking of Bush, he's one of the people who wanted this bailout so badly, why couldn't he get his party behind it? I can't quite say I fully understand where that came from. Sue thinks I was targeting her with my "a$$hole Republicans" comment. She would be wrong. I just took my 401K, cashed in and now I'm invested in wine futures. I'll hold off on the three cases of Boone's for about 3 weeks and let it age nicely in my cellar. Once chilled to perfection, everyone can come over and we'll drink to my retirement fund.See ya soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am investing in Canada. I took some money out and bought Canadian maple leaf gold pieces. If the economy really goes to hell at the very least I will have $100 CDN to start a new life with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Eh? Bush definitely bears a hell of a lot more blame for getting us to where we are today than Pelosi does for this bill not passing. And speaking of Bush, he's one of the people who wanted this bailout so badly, why couldn't he get his party behind it? Then lets blame Carter and Clinton too. I just took my 401K, cashed in and now I'm invested in wine futures. I'll hold off on the three cases of Boone's for about 3 weeks and let it age nicely in my cellar. Once chilled to perfection, everyone can come over and we'll drink to my retirement fund.See ya soon. Damn my meds say no alcohol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Eh? Bush definitely bears a hell of a lot more blame for getting us to where we are today than Pelosi does for this bill not passing. And speaking of Bush, he's one of the people who wanted this bailout so badly, why couldn't he get his party behind it? Well, the Republican congressmen (and women) are obviously in open revolt against the Paulson/Bush plan. And really, when you are up for re-election, being in open revolt against the president, at this time, plays well to the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) What were the specific Bush or "Republican" policies that contributed/caused the current financial crisis? It's more a complete lack thereof. Banking deregulation during the Reagan era and continuing through the Bush senior term played a big role in letting the system get out of control. I think we will see whomever takes over the presidency reverse a lot of the deregulating that the Republicans did. Edited September 30, 2008 by Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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