I reiterate... Sutter is useless

[MadDog2020]

You've got a point there, which is why I think the core has needed to be blown up for a few years now. I think most of them liked Burns, aside from Gomez (and Dano for a few games in the playoffs)

They would've tuned Burns out if they had the chance to. He left the team because of his illness and then the lockout happened, so they never really had a chance to get Burns fired. Hell, they got Larry Robinson fired after he took them to the Finals in consecutive years. These idiots don't listen to anyone.

Who is this core?

Here are the players left from the 03 team: Elias, Langenbrunner, Pandolfo, Madden, White, Brodeur, Gionta. Are you really going to claim that these are the guys who got coaches fired?

Truth is, Lou has hired some crappy coaches.

If you believe some of what you hear, Madden shot a puck at Julien. I mean, c'mon.

[SatansDevils]

Do these guys like any of the coaches that have been here? This core group has developed a reputation over the years of being coach killers, and that shouldn't be news to anyone here. They don't like anyone.

Robinson, Lemaire and Burns was well liked by some of these current players over the years. There were some others in the 80's that were liked too.

[maxpower]

Robinson, Lemaire and Burns was well liked by some of these current players over the years. There were some others in the 80's that were liked too.

no they weren't. I dunno about Lemaire but that was a different group of players. they didn't respect Robinson and there were players that had problems with Burns.

[Beetlebum]

sutter is the new herb brooks

[SatansDevils]

no they weren't. I dunno about Lemaire but that was a different group of players. they didn't respect Robinson and there were players that had problems with Burns.

Yes they were. They respected Robinson and that is why he had 3 different stints with the Devils. The players learned a lot from Robinson. Most of the players liked all 3 coaches that I mentioned.

[Daniel]

I wouldn't be all over Sutter if they were losing only because of talent issues. If he just had crappy defensemen (which face it he does) who got beat on one on ones, I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't place the blame on him. If, like in the '96 to '99 time period, players would get good opportunities, but just be unable to put the puck in the net, I wouldn't blame the coach.

At the very least, however, it's the coach's job to stop a team from shooting itself in the foot. Why do you think the Raiders are the laughing stock of the NFL (although admittedly a senile owner doesn't help matters there either)?

I've been following the team for 20 years, since I was 9 years old. (How many people here can honestly remember watching games when Tom McVie was the coach?) I've never seen a Devils team, even when they were bottom dwellers, play with their heads up their asses such as I'm seeing now.

Instead of making the players work out on the exercise bikes after a game, Sutter can start by admitting a mistake and immediately strip Langdenbrunner captainship and give it to Parise. At the very least your captain is supposed to lead by example. I think we've all seen the example Langden-IwishwestillhadArnott has set.

[Triumph]

If you believe some of what you hear, Madden shot a puck at Julien. I mean, c'mon.

Except that, according to that article, he did so to test his coach's authority. Do you think Brent Sutter would ever tolerate that?

And yes, i agree, changing captaincy is exactly what an unsure team needs. let's just give it to the guy who scores the most goals per month, rotate it that way! god how many wins a year do you really think the captaincy is worth

[devilsrule33]

What do you guys want Sutter to do? He is coaching what he has. We have some horrible contracts on this team and I can't even blame Lou. He gave Elias, Gionta and Langenbrunner fair deals after how they performed. Now they all suck flat out. They inexplicably lost their games. Pandolfo is arguably a bad contract that Lou most likely did out of loyalty, and since he wa sunderpaid most of his career and deserved one big pay day.

He can yell and scream and make them ride the bike, but these are all veterans who aren't very young. Most of these guys have long-term deals with no trade clauses. There is no fear.

This team just isn't very good. Lou has all of his favourites on the staff too. Would he fire MacLean? I doubt it.

What I want to know is what you guys think Sutter needs to do. Everyone is so stuc on Pat Burns. Pat Burns wore out his welcome on 3 different teams. There is only so much a coach can do.

[jkrdevil]

sutter is the new herb brooks

I wouldn't go that far. So far Sutter hasn't had loose lips with the press, hasn't been publicly fighting with the top players, and while we complain about the little things he does he is employing a system that is completely unsuited for the personnel of the team (or at least expected personnel).

Brooks was arguably the worst coach in Devils history. He was inflexible and had a big ego. He was advocating that the team basically rebuild with a core group that the next two years would come within a goal of the Final and win the Stanley Cup (granted that core group needed Marty who was in his one season in the minors at the time).

Edited November 13, 2008 by jkrdevil

[maxpower]

Yes they were. They respected Robinson and that is why he had 3 different stints with the Devils. The players learned a lot from Robinson. Most of the players liked all 3 coaches that I mentioned.

It's one thing to respect him as a hockey mind and a whole other thing to respect him as a coach. They did not respect him as a coach. They rolled over him like a kindergarten teacher.

[MadDog2020]

Except that, according to that article, he did so to test his coach's authority. Do you think Brent Sutter would ever tolerate that?

And yes, i agree, changing captaincy is exactly what an unsure team needs. let's just give it to the guy who scores the most goals per month, rotate it that way! god how many wins a year do you really think the captaincy is worth

Brent Sutter would never tolerate that. And they don't appear to respect him that much either. See, it doesn't seem to matter who coaches them or what kind of style that coach has: they don't listen and they don't play 60 minutes consistently enough.

[jkrdevil]

Larry is the perfect assistant coach. He has a great hockey mind and is a great teacher. However his problem as a head coach is when it comes to discipline and keeping guys in line. He's just to laid back and nice. As a result the players ran over him. The only way unfortunatly he works as a head coach is if he follows someone who is a complete nut like Ftorek.

[DevilinLA]

I wouldn't be all over Sutter if they were losing only because of talent issues. If he just had crappy defensemen (which face it he does) who got beat on one on ones, I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't place the blame on him. If, like in the '96 to '99 time period, players would get good opportunities, but just be unable to put the puck in the net, I wouldn't blame the coach.

At the very least, however, it's the coach's job to stop a team from shooting itself in the foot. Why do you think the Raiders are the laughing stock of the NFL (although admittedly a senile owner doesn't help matters there either)?

I've been following the team for 20 years, since I was 9 years old. (How many people here can honestly remember watching games when Tom McVie was the coach?) I've never seen a Devils team, even when they were bottom dwellers, play with their heads up their asses such as I'm seeing now.

Instead of making the players work out on the exercise bikes after a game, Sutter can start by admitting a mistake and immediately strip Langdenbrunner captainship and give it to Parise. At the very least your captain is supposed to lead by example. I think we've all seen the example Langden-IwishwestillhadArnott has set.

All I can say is thank god you have no influence on the management of this team....

Take the only player who is producing offensively, and give him the overrated "C" to inspire and lead a group of veteran guys who have seen more Stanley Cup Finals and Playoffs than ....

I'm sure there will be no pressure there.

What do you guys want Sutter to do? He is coaching what he has. We have some horrible contracts on this team and I can't even blame Lou. He gave Elias, Gionta and Langenbrunner fair deals after how they performed. Now they all suck flat out. They inexplicably lost their games. Pandolfo is arguably a bad contract that Lou most likely did out of loyalty, and since he wa sunderpaid most of his career and deserved one big pay day.

He can yell and scream and make them ride the bike, but these are all veterans who aren't very young. Most of these guys have long-term deals with no trade clauses. There is no fear.

This team just isn't very good. Lou has all of his favourites on the staff too. Would he fire MacLean? I doubt it.

What I want to know is what you guys think Sutter needs to do. Everyone is so stuc on Pat Burns. Pat Burns wore out his welcome on 3 different teams. There is only so much a coach can do.

Most on this forum are "stuck" on anything that has to do with a former Devil Player or Coach.

If only it was 2000, or 2003 again...but then again the game has changed....or maybe some haven't noticed (i.e. see Barry Melrose)

[njdevil26]

Omg I am getting so sick of the coach bashing that is going on here.

If the Devils had a full lineup including Brodeur and were like 12-2-1 instead of 7-6-2 then none of this b!tching would be going on. Stop blaming Sutter for a half assed minor league lineup losing to one of the better teams in the league.

[firecenter]

Like i am shocked people are reacting this way considering the circumstances. some of the panic mode topics:

1) Pat Burns - has anyone bothered to compare the team he had to the one we have. This d core might be the worst the devils have had in 15 years. The firepower up front is much older in terms of people who are still here, and we havent added any (minus rolston who is injured, and coincidently was healthy for the devils fast start). So how exactly does Pat Burns make this team better, nobody has bothered to really say why.

2) Line Juggling - What are u guys talking about chemistry for. Every key forward has played with each other for years now. The coaches have seen every combo imaginable in both practice and games. Anybody who honestly believes players should be given time to build chemistry doesnt know what chemistry is. Chemistry happens and occurs quickly, if it aint there, it aint there. You guys cried and cried for madden and pandolfo to be reunited last year, and now you want them broken up. make up your mind.

3) Goaltending - While the backups have been average at best, they have not come up with the big saves. Weekes had the one good game against buffalo, but aside from that its been so-so at best. Little things like stopping pucks behind the net and tipping pucks on rims are happening. When your d isnt very good, and these little things suddenly disappear, your bound for more pressure on your own end.

4) Langenbrunne - Somebody name a different captain please. we have a coach who has been one of the best leaders on the ice and on the bench over the last 25 years. Im gonna take his word for it. Has anybody looked at Morrow recently, that guy is good for a penalty a game it seems like.

5) Prospects - Pretty sure Lou decides who gets sent down to the minors, so stop the sutter/davis thing. Not sure about you guys, but while bergfors and vrana did make some good plays when they played, they also had turnovers and positional lapses. So while you guys look at it with rose colored glasses, some of us might see what the coach sees in that they can also be liabilities.

People need to honestly think about the team we have and a) what coach could possibly be better, and WHY b) who, it doesnt get a whole lot better then sutter. Lou has built this team knowing marty, even with a bad team is good for 30 wins, and hopefully the team can squeak out 10-15 more. that aint gonna happen this year, and the faster people realize the faster we can get used to a

[Amberite]

I have to agree. So far Sutter has been very questionable in his decisions and it seems like he is constantly out-coached by the other team.

Langenbrunner - What is his fascination with him? Langs has been and still can be clutch at times but it's obvious he can't keep up with Parise and Zajac anymore. Yet Sutter refuses to move him or even make any sort of negative comment about him. With all line juggling I'd think that at the very least Langs would be tested on other lines, but nope. As for the captaincy, I could care less. Being the captain, especially on this team, doesn't mean much. He can have it for all I care.

Line juggling - This is really ridiculous and has been said many, many times. You simply cannot give a line 2 or 3 games to click before tearing it apart. I don't understand how this is STILL happening.

PP / PK: Horrible, just horrible. As has been said, this is a coaching issue. We have the players here to be much better than this, so why aren't we?

I could go on and on. I was completely on the Sutter bandwagon a year ago, but right now I really feel like we got swindled. How did Sutter get this reputation of being one of the best coaches out there? I just don't get it...

Edited November 13, 2008 by Amberite

[Triumph]

I love the post above.

"This line has scored 15 goals since the start of the season - break them up!"

"Sutter does too much line juggling!!"

[Ivan]

The on ice product sucks and although i don't like Sutter, i am not sure how much he can really do to fix it.

[sundstrom]

Omg I am getting so sick of the coach bashing that is going on here.

If the Devils had a full lineup including Brodeur and were like 12-2-1 instead of 7-6-2 then none of this b!tching would be going on.

if the queen had balls, she'd be the king.

this is a results oriented business my friend. of course there would not be as much complaining about sutter if the team had a better record. but they don't and it's not all about the injuries. frankly, there's no guarantee that a 100% healthy devils team is 12-2-1. they're certainly better than this, but i would not project them as the best team in the league.

[Amberite]

I love the post above.

"This line has scored 15 goals since the start of the season - break them up!"

"Sutter does too much line juggling!!"

Triumph that is a really silly comment. That line has scored 15 goals with 11 of them being from one player, and usually each of those 11 goals have nothing (and I mean NOTHING) to do with Langenbrunner. I'm sorry, but for the 1st line to produce 15 goals in 15 games is not that great. I think with someone else other than Langs in that spot that line can produce more (not talking about Parise, obviously).

And how can you deny Sutter does too much juggling? I'd love to hear your explanation for this.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Amberite

[Elias26]

I support getting rid of Sutter.

[Patches O'Houlihan]

They've gone from Robinson to Lou to Julien to Lou again to Sutter (who is the guy Lou supposedly coveted for years) while keeping essentially the same core players and getting similar results. Now they are going to fire Sutter , keep the same core, keep MacLean and Albelin as assistants and the achieve better results? That is one magic loogie!

[xxchaznjxx]

sutter is hardly the biggest problem on this team. not many teams can lose hall of fame goalies, 1st line centermen, and arguably their top 2 d men and do much better.

there isn't one coach in the league or out of the league that could do better with the players we have now. and i wish the people who want sutter gone would also name who would come in and do this wonderful, magical job with this team.

this team was playing well before the injuries mounted. and the coach isn't responsible for goalies letting in softies or important players(looking at you langs) taking dumb penalties.

Edited November 13, 2008 by xxchaznjxx

[DevilinLA]

Like i am shocked people are reacting this way considering the circumstances. some of the panic mode topics:

1) Pat Burns - has anyone bothered to compare the team he had to the one we have. This d core might be the worst the devils have had in 15 years. The firepower up front is much older in terms of people who are still here, and we havent added any (minus rolston who is injured, and coincidently was healthy for the devils fast start). So how exactly does Pat Burns make this team better, nobody has bothered to really say why.

2) Line Juggling - What are u guys talking about chemistry for. Every key forward has played with each other for years now. The coaches have seen every combo imaginable in both practice and games. Anybody who honestly believes players should be given time to build chemistry doesnt know what chemistry is. Chemistry happens and occurs quickly, if it aint there, it aint there. You guys cried and cried for madden and pandolfo to be reunited last year, and now you want them broken up. make up your mind.

3) Goaltending - While the backups have been average at best, they have not come up with the big saves. Weekes had the one good game against buffalo, but aside from that its been so-so at best. Little things like stopping pucks behind the net and tipping pucks on rims are happening. When your d isnt very good, and these little things suddenly disappear, your bound for more pressure on your own end.

4) Langenbrunne - Somebody name a different captain please. we have a coach who has been one of the best leaders on the ice and on the bench over the last 25 years. Im gonna take his word for it. Has anybody looked at Morrow recently, that guy is good for a penalty a game it seems like.

5) Prospects - Pretty sure Lou decides who gets sent down to the minors, so stop the sutter/davis thing. Not sure about you guys, but while bergfors and vrana did make some good plays when they played, they also had turnovers and positional lapses. So while you guys look at it with rose colored glasses, some of us might see what the coach sees in that they can also be liabilities.

People need to honestly think about the team we have and a) what coach could possibly be better, and WHY b) who, it doesnt get a whole lot better then sutter. Lou has built this team knowing marty, even with a bad team is good for 30 wins, and hopefully the team can squeak out 10-15 more. that aint gonna happen this year, and the faster people realize the faster we can get used to a

This has to be one of the best posts I've read here in a while.

Pointing out all the "flawed logic" on this board.

Everyone bitches....no one offers an alternative (unless its a Devil alumni 7 years removed from the game)

Next we will hear.....Why not make Scott Stevens the coach...

(for the same reason that the Flyers didn't make Eric Lindros the Coach when they went on their huge losing streak last year, "Team alumni" are not always the answer to every problem)

Edited November 13, 2008 by DevilinLA

[95Crash]

I'm as frustrated as most Devils fans, but putting aside for a second his questionable uses of Elias and Langenbrunner and his line choices and line juggling, in all fairness, Sutter deserves more of a chance before judging him. So far, he really has only coached one full season in the NHL. And with all the injuries that have hit the team this year, in the end, this season might as well only count as a half-season -- or less if we don't come up with a legitimate starting goaltender to fill in for Marty.