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2009 World Series Champion Yankees Thread


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You're smoking crack if you want to pass on Burnett and basing it on money and his health history, when in actuality, he's had two straight years of minimum 150 innings pitched. If this was Kansas City or Florida, you'd have an argument for the money, but not with the Yankees.

There is some validity to what you say IMO, but here's the sticky part: You know the DL stints are coming, but when are they coming? If they come in the fall, your investment turns sour. But I understand that there's competition for this guy, which means the price goes up. And the Yankees can afford to overpay and take the risk that it doesn't work out, hello Carl Pavano and Andy Morales (I like that one, even though the Yankees relatively didn't pay him that much to do nothing).

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There is some validity to what you say IMO, but here's the sticky part: You know the DL stints are coming, but when are they coming? If they come in the fall, your investment turns sour. But I understand that there's competition for this guy, which means the price goes up. And the Yankees can afford to overpay and take the risk that it doesn't work out, hello Carl Pavano and Andy Morales (I like that one, even though the Yankees relatively didn't pay him that much to do nothing).

Actually, we don't know the DL stints are coming for a fact. Yes, the guy has a history of going on the DL. However, there is a reverse to that as well. Last year he was not on the DL at all and the year before that he was on it twice and still pitched over 150 innings. CC could tear his labrum in spring training or A-Rod could tear his Achilles for all we know.

The fact that he is historically a beast against the division, led the AL in strikeouts, would've been a 20 game winner on almost any other staff in the majors last year (considering the Jays' anemic run support) is enough for me to justify signing him. Yes, its probably a year or two longer than optimal, but if thats what its going to cost, its worth the risk. If he ends up like Pavano there is nothing stopping the Yankees from sending him to the minors (or if hes injured the whole time) and bringing someone else in. The money doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that the only way this franchise can get better now is via free agency. There are very few trades that can be made for quality starters.

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The bottom line is that the only way this franchise can get better now is via free agency. There are very few trades that can be made for quality starters.

You are right.

But the DL stints for Burnett are likely coming. Ten times in his career and he's not getting any younger.

And he won't be in a contract year anymore. You know he's got that reputation!

Phil Hughes (or whoever's the fifth or sixth starter) will probably get plenty of big league innings ... if HE'S not hurt.

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I hope he doesn't go to Atlanta. He's easily the best pitcher left and is a lower risk than you're giving him credit for.

Money: There is no salary cap. This isn't Kansas City or Florida.

Worst case scenario: He breaks down (ala Pavano) and the Yankees go out and get someone else. The only reason they couldn't when Pavano broke down was because they had nothing on the farm and very few trade pieces (they still won't anytime soon most likely) and more importantly, there was nothing on the free agent market in terms of starters. Thats why they stood pat last year (when they should've traded for Santana, but whatever) That's the more pressing issue. The Yankees do not have the farm talent at this time and do not have enough viable trade pieces to get starting pitching and theres very little on the horizon on the FA market in the next 2 years. You're forgetting the plusses. The guy is a beast against the AL East (notably Boston, he's 5-0 with an ERA under 3 in his last 8 against them) and there are very few pitchers of his caliber hitting the market anytime soon unless someone does something they've not done before.

Reasons for getting him: If the Yankees were to not get Burnett, they would likely go after Lowe or even the more injured and scarier (in terms of health) Sheets. 32 is not exactly old when guys like Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Jamie freakin Moyer, etc. all pitched into their 40s. He's not the fireballer that got hurt every 3 starts anymore.

If he stays healthy hes good for 150-200 innings minimum. He also had the 3rd most strikeouts in the majors last year, behind only CC and Lincecum (a.k.a. most in the AL). He gave up less hits and the same amount of HRs as CC and pitched only 30 less innings than CC. I don't even bother looking at his W-L (hell he was still 18-10), when he's playing for Toronto, who were bottom five in the AL for run support, put Burnett on one of the playoff teams last year and he wins 20 games easily. Toronto as a team had the best WHIP in the majors last year btw, thanks to AJ and Halladay. He threw only 2 more walks than Lincecum!

You're smoking crack if you want to pass on Burnett and basing it on money and his health history, when in actuality, he's had two straight years of minimum 150 innings pitched. If this was Kansas City or Florida, you'd have an argument for the money, but not with the Yankees.

I'm not doubting Burnett's ability as a pitcher. When healthy he can be a beast and has had success againt AL East teams, although he was just above league average last year despite being healthy. I just don't think he will make it five years, do you? I understand you don't like Sheets but you keep forgetting he would be getting a short term deal. The risk is a lot less there. If he wanted the same deal as Burnett then I'd take Burnett, but the reality is he is willing to take a shorter deal.

Cashman has said he is working with a budget and they want to trim payroll so certainly money does count to the Yankees. That's why they aren't going to get any draft picks for Abreu. I'd rather see them spend the money on Sheets, Pettitte, and Tex than just Burnett.

I'm still glad they didn't trade for Santana. I'm surprised by all the people who have given up on Hughes. The Yankees are deep in pitching with Chamberlain, Hughes, and Kennedy near ready and with high potential guys like Betances and Brackman in the lower levels. I'd rather see them improve the pitching from within which I think is a viable option over the next couple of years.

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I'm not doubting Burnett's ability as a pitcher. When healthy he can be a beast and has had success againt AL East teams, although he was just above league average last year despite being healthy. I just don't think he will make it five years, do you? I understand you don't like Sheets but you keep forgetting he would be getting a short term deal. The risk is a lot less there. If he wanted the same deal as Burnett then I'd take Burnett, but the reality is he is willing to take a shorter deal.

Cashman has said he is working with a budget and they want to trim payroll so certainly money does count to the Yankees. That's why they aren't going to get any draft picks for Abreu. I'd rather see them spend the money on Sheets, Pettitte, and Tex than just Burnett.

I'm still glad they didn't trade for Santana. I'm surprised by all the people who have given up on Hughes. The Yankees are deep in pitching with Chamberlain, Hughes, and Kennedy near ready and with high potential guys like Betances and Brackman in the lower levels. I'd rather see them improve the pitching from within which I think is a viable option over the next couple of years.

No, I dont think he's worth five years, but the problem this particular franchise has I've stated multiple times, and thats the price that needs to be paid for this guy. There is no other way for us to get better immediately and Burnett's potential to take us there quicker is in our face. We do have some young horses that we shouldn't give up on, but none of them (espc Hughes and Kennedy) have shown that they're truly ready yet or shown even an iota of consistency. Its not giving up. Playing in NY is not the same as playing in other places. To win now (which is the only option in the Bronx) they need starters, while yes Burnett is a risk, hes a risk the Yankees in particular can take because of their pocketbook. I just think the upside is greater than the potential downside. Could he go down? Absolutely, but its by no means a given. Its a higher chance considering this particular guys history, but to assume that its automatic is a bit silly when hes coming off a year he did not go on the DL. If we get 3 decent years out of the guy and a ring or two, it wont hurt at all.

The likelihood of AJ being a Yankee is very high right now, I'd rather look at it positively than "sky is falling" before he's even thrown a pitch for us.

I'd rather have Santana than Sabathia at this moment. Not that I'm complaining, but if this was any other franchise and they passed on Santana, it would potentially be damning for many years and IMO it was damning for us last year. These guys don't grow on trees. I'm also not naysaying Sabathia who Im ecstatic about, Santana is better though.

The Yankees took 88 million off the payroll, Sabathia is something like 24 per, Burnett would be something like 16. They're still well under the 2008 payroll. There is rumor that they're still in on Tex, and if not, they most definitely will make a play for Manny. Seriously though, does anyone honestly believe Cashman is on a budget? And if he is, its still higher than any other team in the league by a fair margin. If they are in on Tex or Manny, and another starter like Sheets or Lowe, one call to Hank or Hal is all it will take to get done. The budget BS is all smoke blowing malarkey to placate the "Evil Empire" whiners.

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ghdi, for some of the reasons you gave (they're the Yankees, a lot of payroll was shed after last season), I believe Manny Ramirez will be in pinstripes.

If they don't, I immediately wonder why they didn't bring back Abreu. Not that he's any big power threat, but he's a dependable, productive, very good player.

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If they don't, I immediately wonder why they didn't bring back Abreu. Not that he's any big power threat, but he's a dependable, productive, very good player.

If I had a dollar for every time I screamed at the TV when Abreu pulled some lackluster effort in the outfield, I could afford to replace all the beer I subsequently threw at the wall. Offensively, Abreu was very good. Defensively ... I still have nightmares.

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ghdi, for some of the reasons you gave (they're the Yankees, a lot of payroll was shed after last season), I believe Manny Ramirez will be in pinstripes.

If they don't, I immediately wonder why they didn't bring back Abreu. Not that he's any big power threat, but he's a dependable, productive, very good player.

IMO he's the best player available. Yes, Tex will be better longer, but for 2 to 3 more years, I'd love to see Manny hitting between Jeter and A-Rod, not that Tex would be immediately dismissed though lol

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Woulda rather gotten Lowe, but I guess I'll take him. I like the 5-0 career record against the Sox.

Interesting to see the Yanks have offered Pettitte a "take-it-or-leave-it" $10 million contract.

I think if the Yankees do not get Pettite, they will get Lowe. The ball is in Andy's court. Something tells me Andy comes back.

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Woulda rather gotten Lowe, but I guess I'll take him. I like the 5-0 career record against the Sox.

Interesting to see the Yanks have offered Pettitte a "take-it-or-leave-it" $10 million contract.

Since Lowe was searching for a deal worth around $16M a year for 4 years, I am glad they stayed away. I don't love the Burnett deal but it does have some upside and I hope it all works out like the Yankees and AJ plan. If he is healthy, the trio of CC, AJ, and Wanger could be lethal to opposing teams.

I hope Pettitte takes that offer to fill out the rotation. Part of me would like to see them get Sheets since that has some high upside, especially in this rotation, but I think the risk may be to great now that AJ is aboard. I'm torn but my head is telling me to go get Pettitte.

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Since Lowe was searching for a deal worth around $16M a year for 4 years, I am glad they stayed away. I don't love the Burnett deal but it does have some upside and I hope it all works out like the Yankees and AJ plan. If he is healthy, the trio of CC, AJ, and Wanger could be lethal to opposing teams.

I hope Pettitte takes that offer to fill out the rotation. Part of me would like to see them get Sheets since that has some high upside, especially in this rotation, but I think the risk may be to great now that AJ is aboard. I'm torn but my head is telling me to go get Pettitte.

I don't know ... Lowe was asking for something similar to what we gave A.J. As far as I can remember (and I'm far from being the most knowledgable person when it comes to baseball) Lowe has less of an injury history and a better track record in the playoffs (please correct me if I'm wrong). And I don't know what it is, but Burnett just strikes me as the kind of guy who won't be able to handle the pressure that comes with wearing pinstripes. Just a gut feeling.

But it is what it is. A.J. is a Yankee now and I hope he produces for us. His numbers from last year are really encouraging. If he can win 18 with the Jays, hopefully he can do just as well if not better with the Yanks.

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I don't know ... Lowe was asking for something similar to what we gave A.J. As far as I can remember (and I'm far from being the most knowledgable person when it comes to baseball) Lowe has less of an injury history and a better track record in the playoffs (please correct me if I'm wrong). And I don't know what it is, but Burnett just strikes me as the kind of guy who won't be able to handle the pressure that comes with wearing pinstripes. Just a gut feeling.

But it is what it is. A.J. is a Yankee now and I hope he produces for us. His numbers from last year are really encouraging. If he can win 18 with the Jays, hopefully he can do just as well if not better with the Yanks.

You are correct. Lowe doesn't have as big of an injury history and he has decent numbers in the post season. We'll have to see how Burnett deals with the pressure, especially come playoff time since he has never pitched in the playoffs before. The reason I don't want them to pursue Lowe is his age and the fact that it would add another long term contract to the rotation and I'd rather see them have some flexibility there since some of the kids could break in over the next couple of years. He also put up good numbers last year but that was in the NL West which is a lot different than the AL East.

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You are correct. Lowe doesn't have as big of an injury history and he has decent numbers in the post season. We'll have to see how Burnett deals with the pressure, especially come playoff time since he has never pitched in the playoffs before. The reason I don't want them to pursue Lowe is his age and the fact that it would add another long term contract to the rotation and I'd rather see them have some flexibility there since some of the kids could break in over the next couple of years. He also put up good numbers last year but that was in the NL West which is a lot different than the AL East.

Good points. Especially comparing the NL West to the AL East. When it comes down to it, a lot will still rely on our young pitchers. I still have high hopes for Hughes, but Kennedy was beyond awful last season. And then there's the Joba factor ... starter or reliever. Next season is gonna be crazy.

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Good signing by the Yankees. When Burnett is on he is on. I know Yankees' fans know that all too well. He was 3-1 with 43 strikeouts and a 1.64 ERA against them last year. He was outstanding against the Red Sox too. And the bullpen really fvcked him down the stretch. Finished the month of September going 2-0 in 5 games with a 1.82 ERA.

Burnett hasn't had any major injury in the last 3 years, but the Yankees finally have pitchers that strike fear in opponents. When these guys are on, opponents believe they can't touch these guys. As a Jays fan, last year when I saw Hughes, Pettitte, Rasner, and whoever else in a series there was no fear at all especially when the Jays threw Doc, AJ and Marcum at them. Now you get CC, AJ, and Chamberlain or Wang in a series and you know it's going to be a long few days.

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Good points. Especially comparing the NL West to the AL East. When it comes down to it, a lot will still rely on our young pitchers. I still have high hopes for Hughes, but Kennedy was beyond awful last season. And then there's the Joba factor ... starter or reliever. Next season is gonna be crazy.

Kennedy was horrible last year but he did finish the year up strong in AAA and has pitched well in Puerto Rico so far this winter. Another year in AAA should really help him but I wouldn't be surprised to see him fill in fine if a starter goes down. I wouldn't be surprised if he is moved in a trade this year, I'd think he has some value.

Over 12 individual years. CC also has an opt-out in 3 years, which he is almost assured to do if he is successful in NY. I look at CC's deal as a 3 year deal unless he stinks.

I think that is the correct way to look at his deal. Even to me, he may opt out regardless of performance if his family really doesn't like the NY area and wants to go somewhere else.

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Yep they are the YANKEE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!

What a joke. Neither pitcher is worth that much money. They will both probably flounder in NY with all the media pressure and being forced to win and try to make the playoffs.

Yes, we all saw who Sabathia floundered when he was "forced to win and try to make the playoffs" with Milwaukee last year. He was just awful down the stretch.

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If the Padres come to Cashman and ask for Hughes or Kennedy + Austin Jackson for Jake Peavy, do you do it? I think a deal could be done (Im fine with trading Kennedy) without one of those as the Padres need the deal more than the Yankees do.

Apparently (according to some hot stove blog I read earlier) the Cubs are out and the only teams that could even remotely pull a deal off for Peavy are the Yanks, Sawx, or Angels and Jake is coming around to playing in the AL as he pretty much has to now as no NL team can pull it off.

I lean towards doing it, but that is a hefty price in all seriousness, but the thought of:

Sabathia - Peavy - Burnett - Wang - Pettite/Lowe/someone else

Is absolutely enticing.

edit: Here it is, its from his agent

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/200...ks-cubs/?padres

“Jake has a strong preference to stay in the National League. If Jake's ever going to accept anything to the American League – and I don't want this to be taken wrong – I can safely say that it's going to be the Yankees or Red Sox or maybe the Angels. Those teams are going to be in contention and are going to spend money. If there were circumstances where he would be asked to go to the AL, kicking and screaming, those are the three places.”
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First of all no one wants Kennedy so let's get that out there. He's a back of the rotation guy at best.

But no, I don't do that deal - I keep Chamberlain in the rotation, and I keep Austin Jackson, because it's going to be hitters the Yankees need in coming years, not pitchers. The Yankees have done a good job of picking up players at or near their prime this offseason (Swisher, Nady last July), but you've got a declining Jeter, declining Damon, declining A-Rod (slowly), declining Matsui, declining Posada, etc. They are going to need some young bats around. The Yankees were only 7th in runs scored in the AL last season - Cabrera was terrible, Molina was terrible, and Cano was only slightly less than terrible - then throw in Jeter's subpar performance. Now while I expect Cano to bounce back - a .283 BABIP isn't going to happen again - this lineup is going to begin to have holes. It needs all the hitters it can get.

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