The Zen Master Tom Renney

[94Obsession]

Well since I haven't posted here in awhile, and so many Devils fans or some for that matter, have been wondering when Tom Renney will be questioned about his job, allow me to say what needs to be said (which I and alot of other Rangers been saying for awhile now).....

Tom Renney needs to be FIRED!!!

His in-game decisions and coaching SUCKS!!!

The media will never get on this guy, or question him because he's a "nice guy". But the guy is absolutely F'N clueless. Forget Sather. He's not going anywhere. He has a job for a lifetime. Dolan doesn't care about Hockey or the Rangers. So Sather could do what he wants.

Anyway, did ANYONE catch the Rangers-Capitals game this past Tuesday!?

If not, go back, if you can, and watch the replay. That game is a perfect example of how much of an idiot Renney is.

I was at that atrocity. The Rangers were actually playing a damn good Hockey game for 1 and a half periods. But then the Rangers stopped attacking.

I literally sat there and watched the Rangers style of play change from attacking to going into a defensive 1-4. Right when it was made 4-1 or 4-2. And what little we had of overtime, he was playing a 1-3. meaning 1 forechecker in, and 4 players back. Or in overtime 1 forechecker in, and 3 players back.

That loss as all on Renney.

I'd like to repost somehing that I posted on a Rangers Report blog the night of the loss.

REPOST:

Tonights loss is ALL on Renney. Want proof? I dare anyone to go back and watch the game or a FULL replay of tonight

Edited December 28, 2008 by 94Obsession

[CRASHER]

You do realize the only reason the Rangers went up 4 goals in that game is that Theodore can't stop a beach ball right?? They were put together poorly in the off-season basing the defense on soft and softer. The Rangers took the easy step of going from bad to playoff worthy

the next step as you see... not so easy

why am I defending the Rangers??

I guess I'm not, there's so many bad teams in the East that making the playoffs does not require a superior effort anyway

[94Obsession]

You do realize the only reason the Rangers went up 4 goals in that game is that Theodore can't stop a beach ball right?? They were put together poorly in the off-season basing the defense on soft and softer. The Rangers took the easy step of going from bad to playoff worthy

the next step as you see... not so easy

why am I defending the Rangers??

I guess I'm not, there's so many bad teams in the East that making the playoffs does not require a superior effort anyway

Hey, CRASHER, long time, no talk.

Yes, I realize Theodore sucks, but, the fact remains that the Rangers were playing a damn good game, and took the foot off the break.

Mr. Ovechkin even commented on Renney's system.

It doesn't say a whole lot about it.

[94Obsession]

And another thing, there's absolutely no reason why a guy like Blair Betts or Colton Orr should play every game..... Play Prucha and Dan Fritsche for a couple of games.

Dan Fristche has more skill than Betts.

And as much as I love Colton Orr and his effort, and what Blair Betts brings to the game, they're not gonna get it done for you. Blair betts basically only blocks shots.

Edited December 28, 2008 by 94Obsession

[Triumph]

So the Rangers stopped attacking in a 4-0 game? yeah it sucks to lose that game, but that's going to happen from time to time. New Jersey easily could've lost to the Rangers when they blew a 4 goal lead. At least the Rangers got a point out of it.

Petr Prucha is not a good NHL player and deserves to ride the pine. His first season was a fluke - his second season is about what you can expect out of him. That's just not good enough.

Of course Aaron Voros is doing nothing - that's his MO. There's a reason why the Devils let this guy go.

I don't think the Rangers are a good team. I really don't. I had them out of the playoffs at the beginning of the year, and if it weren't for some shootout wins, that's exactly where they'd be. Now that Lundqvist is playing just good to average instead of inhumanly good, all the flaws are exposed - the Rangers are SOFT. They were soft last year, but at least they had Avery and Jagr around - Jagr's willing to take a hit to make a play and Avery didn't care if 70 guys ran him.

Renney might be the fall guy for the Rangers, either before the end of the season or at the end of the season, but ultimately it isn't his fault - the fault lies with Glen Sather. Sather brought in an overrated and overvalued Drury, a past-his-prime Wade Redden, a guy who can't shoot his way out of a paper bag in Scott Gomez, and all three have been somewhere between average and dismal this off-season. He brought in guys for whom motivation has been a problem throughout their careers. The Rangers have been unlucky this year, but they've also suffered absolutely no significant injuries - if that changes, things could get ugly on Broadway. The Rangers play defense because they have to - ultimately, Glen Sather forgot to get a player who can put the puck in the net consistently beyond Markus Naslund, and this team cannot play a puck possession game.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Triumph

[Devils Pride 26]

If one of them goes, they both should go. That Redden contract is the worst in NHL history, and Drury + Gomez aren't the best either. I'm going to have fun watching the Rangers be dismantled this offseason because they are giving what 35M to 5 guys, is that what it is? Meanwhile, they speak of Hossa coming to be their savior this offseason, like Redden was last year, like Gomez and, as all my ranger fan buddies call him, Rhis Rury, were for them 2 years ago.

[94Obsession]

Petr Prucha is not a good NHL player and deserves to ride the pine. His first season was a fluke - his second season is about what you can expect out of him. That's just not good enough.

I don't think the Rangers are a good team. I really don't. I had them out of the playoffs at the beginning of the year, and if it weren't for some shootout wins, that's exactly where they'd be. Now that Lundqvist is playing just good to average instead of inhumanly good, all the flaws are exposed - the Rangers are SOFT. They were soft last year, but at least they had Avery and Jagr around - Jagr's willing to take a hit to make a play and Avery didn't care if 70 guys ran him.

Regardless what you think of Prucha though, he doesn't deserve to be jerked around. And you know that. Either play him or get rid of him.

And the 2nd season was fine IMO. there's nothing wrong with 22 goals.

And yeah, I do agree the Rangers aren't cracked up what they are to be.

But I already knew that.

I can't blame Lundqvist. His back must be broke from carrying the Rangers. If we had any kind of Defense besides the 3 headed moster that is Redden, Rozsival, and Kalinen. The team would be a bit better.

The Rangers are softer than Carvel.

And yeah, they did start to sit back once it was 4-1 or 4-2.

Watch the Rangers closely or on a game to game basis. It's always the defensive 1-4.

Always sending 1 forechecker in with 4 players back instead of keep attacking.

[94Obsession]

If one of them goes, they both should go. That Redden contract is the worst in NHL history, and Drury + Gomez aren't the best either. I'm going to have fun watching the Rangers be dismantled this offseason because they are giving what 35M to 5 guys, is that what it is? Meanwhile, they speak of Hossa coming to be their savior this offseason, like Redden was last year, like Gomez and, as all my ranger fan buddies call him, Rhis Rury, were for them 2 years ago.

Honestly though, I can't get on Chris Drury or Gomez yet.....

I think that Renney is like Roger Neilson.

Good enough to get them back to respectability and the Playoffs, but not good enough to take them to the next level.

All people see are numbers with Renney.

The fact that this guy is climbing the Rangers all time list for wins is a joke.

I think Drury and Gomez or anyone else on the Rangers would flourish more in an offensive system.

Renney's system stifiles creativity.

And his lack of benching players or holding players accountable is a disgrace.

Edited December 28, 2008 by 94Obsession

[Triumph]

Regardless what you think of Prucha though, he doesn't deserve to be jerked around. And you know that. Either play him or get rid of him.

And the 2nd season was fine IMO. there's nothing wrong with 22 goals.

For a guy of Prucha's skill, there is. 20 goals is nice, but what else is Prucha contributing to the team? He's not a good passer, he doesn't forecheck well, he doesn't play good defense, he's small, and as far as I know he only plays one position. While I'm sure Petr's not happy with how the team is treating him, and I wouldn't blame him, he's still getting paid over a million dollars to ride the bench. The Rangers have been lucky not to suffer any injuries and Prucha's a nice guy to have around if one of the top 6 forwards did go down. In the end, Prucha might get a shot with a weaker club and put up some good-looking numbers but he's just not a guy you can play regularly for a winning team - he's a little better than Juraj Kolnik with some better career luck.

Watch the Rangers closely or on a game to game basis. It's always the defensive 1-4.

Always sending 1 forechecker in with 4 players back instead of keep attacking.

I've probably seen 10 Rangers games this year at least, and I agree. The problem is the Rangers don't have the kind of team that can forecheck. Other than Dubinsky, who is even good along the boards for the Rangers? I guess Callahan is okay. They are a counter-attack team because they have to be - much like New Jersey was last year, they don't have the horses to play a puck possession game. And there's just no one who can score consistently - Dubinsky and Callahan have no touch around the net (Gomez has even less than no touch), Drury was massively overrated, Naslund's 37, and Zherdev hasn't been able to find the back of the net enough.

[Devils Pride 26]

After all, they said Gomez was used wrong by the Devils trap system and such He'll but up all star numbers, and they throw him right into the trap agian. They are either stupid or just realize Gomez isn't what they thought he was.

[Revan]

If one of them goes, they both should go. That Redden contract is the worst in NHL history, and Drury + Gomez aren't the best either. I'm going to have fun watching the Rangers be dismantled this offseason because they are giving what 35M to 5 guys, is that what it is? Meanwhile, they speak of Hossa coming to be their savior this offseason, like Redden was last year, like Gomez and, as all my ranger fan buddies call him, Rhis Rury, were for them 2 years ago.

How the hell do they think the Rangers are going to sign Hossa? They have like half of their roster set to become RFAs (I bet they sign Zherdev to a 20 year 10 milion USD a season contract ) and the only players who are going to be unrestricted are guys like Betts, Mara or Kalinin. They would have to trade one of these brilliant signings they made a year or two ago to have any breathing room. And you know nobody's going to trade for Redden, the man sucks and how the GMs actually gave him these big offers is beyond me.

Oh, and BTW... I thought this forum is called Hell, not Garden? Okay, kidding, I don't mind discussing the Rangers with their fans here unless it turns into a trash talking fest.

[94Obsession]

For a guy of Prucha's skill, there is. 20 goals is nice, but what else is Prucha contributing to the team? He's not a good passer, he doesn't forecheck well, he doesn't play good defense, he's small, and as far as I know he only plays one position. While I'm sure Petr's not happy with how the team is treating him, and I wouldn't blame him, he's still getting paid over a million dollars to ride the bench. The Rangers have been lucky not to suffer any injuries and Prucha's a nice guy to have around if one of the top 6 forwards did go down. In the end, Prucha might get a shot with a weaker club and put up some good-looking numbers but he's just not a guy you can play regularly for a winning team - he's a little better than Juraj Kolnik with some better career luck.

I've probably seen 10 Rangers games this year at least, and I agree. The problem is the Rangers don't have the kind of team that can forecheck. Other than Dubinsky, who is even good along the boards for the Rangers? I guess Callahan is okay. They are a counter-attack team because they have to be - much like New Jersey was last year, they don't have the horses to play a puck possession game. And there's just no one who can score consistently - Dubinsky and Callahan have no touch around the net (Gomez has even less than no touch), Drury was massively overrated, Naslund's 37, and Zherdev hasn't been able to find the back of the net enough.

Actually I love how the Devils have been playing this year or lately. More attack IMO. Maybe I Haven't seen them enough, But lately, they have been attacking.

And I really liked the idea of 5 fowards out there for their PP.

Plus you have a coach in Sutter. There's no way a lunatic (in a good way) like that would put up with poor play or players not performing.

Because you know he'd sit them out if they were.

Edited December 28, 2008 by 94Obsession

[94Obsession]

After all, they said Gomez was used wrong by the Devils trap system and such He'll but up all star numbers, and they throw him right into the trap agian. They are either stupid or just realize Gomez isn't what they thought he was.

Rangers have a long history of not using players right.

He was good enough last year for the All Star team IMO.

They're just stupid.

[94Obsession]

Oh, and BTW... I thought this forum is called Hell, not Garden? Okay, kidding, I don't mind discussing the Rangers with their fans here unless it turns into a trash talking fest.

No worries here. I'm not here to talk trash. Just talk Hockey.

And I always thought HELL was for anything to be talked about.

I know you were kidding though.

I'm just saying.

Edited December 28, 2008 by 94Obsession

[spyro]

Honestly though, I can't get on Chris Drury or Gomez yet.....

I think that Renney is like Roger Neilson.

Good enough to get them back to respectability and the Playoffs, but not good enough to take them to the next level.

All people see are numbers with Renney.

The fact that this guy is climbing the Rangers all time list for wins is a joke.

I think Drury and Gomez or anyone else on the Rangers would flourish more in an offensive system.

Renney's system stifiles creativity.

And his lack of benching players or holding players accountable is a disgrace.

Wasnt everyone saying how gomez would "flourish" away from the Devils? That is why Lou is a genius, he realized that Gomez's motivation is money. So i as im sure every other Devils fan is happy that he chose to resign Elias the season before.

As for Renney, I must admit I dont know too much about him. All I know is that he has made the Rangers a respectable franchise. However, blowing a 4-0 lead is inexcusable for both the players and the coach. Why Renney told them to sit back against Ovechkin and friends is beyond me.

[Devils Pride 26]

How the hell do they think the Rangers are going to sign Hossa? They have like half of their roster set to become RFAs (I bet they sign Zherdev to a 20 year 10 milion USD a season contract ) and the only players who are going to be unrestricted are guys like Betts, Mara or Kalinin. They would have to trade one of these brilliant signings they made a year or two ago to have any breathing room. And you know nobody's going to trade for Redden, the man sucks and how the GMs actually gave him these big offers is beyond me.

Oh, and BTW... I thought this forum is called Hell, not Garden? Okay, kidding, I don't mind discussing the Rangers with their fans here unless it turns into a trash talking fest.

(Que Peter Griffin saying "Whoa" a bunch of times) I didn't say I think they will sign him, they think they will sign him. On HF boards at least.

[Daniel]

If Ranger fans are looking for someone to blame, it lies squarely on the shoulders of Sather. Two main reasons:

1. Sather has committed to building the team through youth. That's all well and good, and actually a smart strategy, but he's done a miserable job at it. Name one player that the Rangers have drafted who's any better than a 3rd line forward or a second line defenseman. I can't. The Hugh Jessiman pick was unforgivable. The Flyers and the Devils (and probably other teams that I can't think of) who drafted after the Rangers in 2003, drafted superstars (the Flyers, two of them). Overall, the 2003 draft was one of the best in recent memory, and Rangers missed out completely. The only stellar pick that Sather has made was Lundquist, and that was probably more luck than any sign of uncanny foresight. I'll also admit that the Zherdev trade has been a winner for the Rangers thus far, but it looks like he's tailed off a bit.

2. Overpaying for admittedly good free agents. The Rangers are one of, if not the preeminent big-time teams (in terms of market share, fan base, glitz/glamour, etc). They have an inherent advantage in attracting big-time free agents. With a ton of cap room this year and last, they managed to get a few good players, none of them outstanding. How many Rangers free agent signing really put fear into the other team when they're on the ice? I breathed a sigh of relief when the Rangers did not sign Hossa. Now they have no more cap room, causing them to miss out on Mats Sundin, who was willing to come to NY for a lower price. This coming year they'll have no room to sign a Gaborik type, and can't trade for a player like Kovalchuk if he becomes available. Although I understand baseball has no salary cap, compare to the Yankees who go out and sign and trade for big-time players at any price (A-Rod, Texeira, Sabathia, Damon, Mussina to name a few). The Yanks pay out big money to superstars, and tend not to overpay good, but not great free agents (I realize there are some exceptions, Pavano, Burnett). The Rangers have had the opportunity to do that over the years and have failed miserably.

I think Renney is actually one of the better coaches in the game. He's made the Rangers one of the top 12 teams in the league with only a decent roster. I think they'd be a lot worse without him.

[94Obsession]

If Ranger fans are looking for someone to blame, it lies squarely on the shoulders of Sather. Two main reasons:

1. Sather has committed to building the team through youth. That's all well and good, and actually a smart strategy, but he's done a miserable job at it. Name one player that the Rangers have drafted who's any better than a 3rd line forward or a second line defenseman. I can't. The Hugh Jessiman pick was unforgivable. The Flyers and the Devils (and probably other teams that I can't think of) who drafted after the Rangers in 2003, drafted superstars (the Flyers, two of them). Overall, the 2003 draft was one of the best in recent memory, and Rangers missed out completely. The only stellar pick that Sather has made was Lundquist, and that was probably more luck than any sign of uncanny foresight. I'll also admit that the Zherdev trade has been a winner for the Rangers thus far, but it looks like he's tailed off a bit.

2. Overpaying for admittedly good free agents. The Rangers are one of, if not the preeminent big-time teams (in terms of market share, fan base, glitz/glamour, etc). They have an inherent advantage in attracting big-time free agents. With a ton of cap room this year and last, they managed to get a few good players, none of them outstanding. How many Rangers free agent signing really put fear into the other team when they're on the ice? I breathed a sigh of relief when the Rangers did not sign Hossa. Now they have no more cap room, causing them to miss out on Mats Sundin, who was willing to come to NY for a lower price. This coming year they'll have no room to sign a Gaborik type, and can't trade for a player like Kovalchuk if he becomes available. Although I understand baseball has no salary cap, compare to the Yankees who go out and sign and trade for big-time players at any price (A-Rod, Texeira, Sabathia, Damon, Mussina to name a few). The Yanks pay out big money to superstars, and tend not to overpay good, but not great free agents (I realize there are some exceptions, Pavano, Burnett). The Rangers have had the opportunity to do that over the years and have failed miserably.

I think Renney is actually one of the better coaches in the game. He's made the Rangers one of the top 12 teams in the league with only a decent roster. I think they'd be a lot worse without him.

Good post and response, Daniel. I guess we'll just agree to disagree on Renney.

And yes, I do agree Sather has to go. But he basically has a job for life. Dolan does not care enough to fire him.

Glen Sather has rode Gretzky's coatails long enough. The game has passed him by.

Glen Sather has never really addressed their needs anyway.

But he wont be fired. He'll probably just step down one of these day's :-\

Edited December 28, 2008 by 94Obsession

[Devils Pride 26]

IIRC, the guy who left for the Coyotes (Maloney or something like that) was running the show when they were doing rather good. Since he left, I don't think they have made a decent front office move.

[94Obsession]

IIRC, the guy who left for the Coyotes (Maloney or something like that) was running the show when they were doing rather good. Since he left, I don't think they have made a decent front office move.

HA! Don Maloney was not so good too also.

Maloney was responsible for taking Stool Speciman over Zach Parise. And he also took Al Montoya.

So Yeah...

The funniest thing about that draft was that draft prefview the Rangers aired on MSG at the time. And all they or Don Maloney were doing was hyping up Parise like they were gonna take him. Then when the draft day comes they took Stool Speciman. (Hugh Jessiman)

You can't make this sh!t up!!!

Edited December 28, 2008 by 94Obsession

[Crisis]

I think you can blame the Queen for that overtime goal against WSH. He had a straight lane of sight to the puck on that slapshot and what does he do? He drop to his whorish knees and the puck sails right into the corner. Maybe if he stood up in front of a high shot once in a while..

[NJTommo44]

The Ranger's biggest problems have always been chemistry and accountability. When you build your teams the way that the Rangers do, and will likely continue to do, it's hard to get the best possible effort out of these overpaid superstars. IMO, the only two coaches who were ever able to get the most out of that team were Mike Keenan and Tom Renney. I really think that Renney has done a good job with what he has to work with. Remember, this is the guy who got you into the playoffs for the first time in seven years. If he gets fired, he is definitely going to be picked up by someone else.

On a side note, I am starting to see the same Gomez in NY, that I used to watch take games off all the time in NJ. the problem with the Rangers is Sather and the New York/Steinbrenerian philosophy of building a team.

[Devils Pride 26]

Eh, Montoya wasn't a bad pick. Best goalie coming out of college and that was before Lundqvist broke out of nowhere.

[DaneykoIsGod]

There have been some pretty good responses in this thread. Good to see straight hockey talk in a thread about the Rangers.

94O, I, like a lot of the other fans around here, think Renney is doing a very good job. His system is a proven winner, he just doesn't have enough talent/heart in the locker room to have it carried out. The Devils won two of their three Cups with the exact same style of hockey the Rangers are playing this year. The difference is that, in order for it to work, the players have to buy into it and believe in it 100%. Right now, the Rangers look like they're having a tough time believing.

Again repeating the sentiments of others around here, I think the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Glen Sather. The guy is more concerned with winning on the first day of unrestricted free agency than he is concerned with winning the Stanley Cup. And I'm in the minority on this one, but I think (and always thought) the Zherdev trade was a bad one. Sure, Zherdev has provided much of the little offense the Rangers have this year. But in losing a young, homegrown talent like Tyutin, a weak blueline became downright decrepit. As the year wears on, Zherdev will have his brilliant moments but he'll have even more silly mistakes and entire games mailed in. Tyutin's consistency on defense is already being missed. The best thing about that trade was getting rid of Backman, who was absolutely atrocious.

If Sather gave Renney the best players for the system rather than the biggest names for the newspapers, the Rangers would be killing it. As it is, they're still in 1st in the Atlantic for the time being. Thank Tom Renney for that miracle.

[Triumph]

Eh, Montoya wasn't a bad pick. Best goalie coming out of college and that was before Lundqvist broke out of nowhere.

Lundqvist had already had 3 tremendous seasons in the Swedish Elite League. I mean, it's not like the Rangers missed on anyone big by taking Montoya, but they whiffed on two straight drafts, and what seems to me most egregious was that both players they missed on were marketing opportunities - Jessiman being from the Tri-State area and Montoya being a Hispanic goaltender as well as American. The Rangers focus on this crap way too much and it hurts their overall team concept.

Daneyko, Tyutin is a nice player but he is not as valuable as Zherdev, plus they got rid of Backman who was just as bad as Kalinin. If you want to make an argument that the Rangers would be better off spending 8MM per on Hossa, keeping Tyutin, keeping Backman, not getting Kalinin or Fritsche or Zherdev, I think I'd listen, but the Rangers' strength is their defense, hard is that is to believe at present. The problem is they've piled up guys who are too soft. Much as a team with 6 Bryce Salvadors at defense wouldn't be doing too well, a team with 6 guys who can (in theory) transition the puck well but don't take hits well isn't going to be that good either.

The Rangers' problem was that they were handed a Stanley Cup shot when they were supposed to be rebuilding. Sather made over the whole team since 05-06 - the only players left from that team are Lundqvist, Roszival, and Prucha.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Triumph