Shanahan wants to fit in with Devils

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

There was nothing Stevens COULD do... except wait 5 years as for after the 5 years were up I think he felt like he had to stick with the plan to go back to St Louis but was happy enough when all that fell through.

But at least he didn't brood and sulk upon accepting his fate. He could have very easily forced a trade as there would have been takers galore. He did say that he felt like he owed St. Louis something, and I think there's a (small) part of his heart that will always belong to St. Louis.

I dislike Shanahan. I find Claude just as amusing as all hell. I think Nieds is cool doing what he had to do and while I have my problems with him I'd love to have him back before he finally goes out to pasture -- I approve of Raflski leaving. I love having Holik back. It's personal. I do not like Shanahan. I think he's a bad person he accepts accountability enough -- but it's all off kilter just a touch - he's never a human a$$hole - naw, he's just some great guy who had permission to marry his teammates wife, always doing something distasteful all within the morally acceptable lines. I don't dislike him - I find him distasteful.

What's this all about?

Edited January 16, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[mikeford]

Shanahan married Catherine Janney (ex-wife of former St. Louis linemate Craig Janney) on 4 July 1998; they have three children - twins Maggie and Jack were born on 23 November 2002, and daughter Catherine Rosaleen was born on 16 October 2004.

[RowdyFan42]

But at least he didn't brood and sulk upon accepting his fate. He could have very easily forced a trade as they're would have been takers galore. He did say that he felt like he owed St. Louis something, and I think there's a (small) part of his heart that will always belong to St. Louis.

I don't think he could have forced a trade. Knowing Lou, he probably told Scotty, "Look, I specifically wanted YOU to be on this team, so I'm not trading your ass. You can either accept the fact that you're in New Jersey now or you can sit around doing nothing for 5 years in the prime of your career." Having heard that, Scotty then decides he might as well make the best of it.

[Pepperkorn]

yeah sure that's what happened

Nah - obviously Stevens said "WHAT?!?!" (echoing his wife) and then the Blues said "we'll do what we can - just hold tight" and his agent said "we'll do what we can - just hold tight" and everyone came back with "we can't do anything" so the rest is history.

I just don't see Stevens marching into Lou's office or giving anyone any ultimatums. He'd just sit quietly until it was obvious nothing could be done. yeah maybe he blustered at his agent like he did in the penalty box after domi hit Neids -- but you didn't see him hitting the ice -- just so much barking... Grr- woof woof.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I don't think he could have forced a trade. Knowing Lou, he probably told Scotty, "Look, I specifically wanted YOU to be on this team, so I'm not trading your ass. You can either accept the fact that you're in New Jersey now or you can sit around doing nothing for 5 years in the prime of your career." Having heard that, Scotty then decides he might as well make the best of it.

Your guess is as good as mine. It was a long time ago, but I do very clearly remember him not being happy for quite a while (before the season started), when a switch seemed to flick in Stevens' mind. Just like that he got on board, showed up to camp, and the rest was history. Thank God Stevens had such great character...it could have gotten really ugly, both on and off the ice, if he hadn't.

In ways I could understand why he was pissed. No one thought Lou had a chance to wind up getting Stevens, and the Blues' compensation package (with Rod Brind'Amour as its centerpiece) was actually pretty fair. No other GM in the NHL could have pulled off what Lou did. It was brilliant on so many levels: 1) Lou even having the balls to ask for Stevens, and 2) Lou realizing that this was more than a simple player transaction, that the NHL did not like what the Blues were doing to the NHL salary structure. He knew he would have to work hard and would have to dot every "i" and cross every "t" and present a flawless case, but he knew that there was a slight chance that he could very well wind up with Stevens in that NHL atmosphere. The fact that the St. Louis organization and even Stevens were so outraged by the verdict tells you just how much of an upset victory it was for Lou and the Devils franchise.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Pepperkorn]

See now, what the hell were the Blues thinking? They got Stevens with their 5 first rounders since they didn't have the top 7 pick the year before... so they figured they do it again without the 5 first rounders. I mean logic dictates -- hmmm... you want our guy, you dont HAVE 5 first rounders, but you have a guy you think is worth those picks. I mean what's fair here? It defeats the purpose of the Blue getting Shannahan? Eff 'em! I mean come ON Brind'amour and Curtis Joseph...??? Just the fact they tried to throw some crap at the Devils --- I forget who the other guy was but I think there was a third nobody... just what the hell were they thinking? It boggles the mind -- well My mind.

[mikeford]

See now, what the hell were the Blues thinking? They got Stevens with their 5 first rounders since they didn't have the top 7 pick the year before... so they figured they do it again without the 5 first rounders. I mean logic dictates -- hmmm... you want our guy, you dont HAVE 5 first rounders, but you have a guy you think is worth those picks. I mean what's fair here? It defeats the purpose of the Blue getting Shannahan? Eff 'em! I mean come ON Brind'amour and Curtis Joseph...??? Just the fact they tried to throw some crap at the Devils --- I forget who the other guy was but I think there was a third nobody... just what the hell were they thinking? It boggles the mind -- well My mind.

wiki sez:

Stevens would not get an opportunity to continue his success in St. Louis, however. In the offseason following the 1990-91 NHL season, the Blues signed Brendan Shanahan from the New Jersey Devils.[12] Much like Stevens the year before, Shanahan was a restricted free agent, and thus the Devils were entitled to compensation. The teams could not agree on what the compensation was; the Blues offered goalie Curtis Joseph, forward Rod Brind'Amour, and two draft picks, while the Devils wanted Stevens.[12] The case went to arbitration, and a judge ruled that Stevens was to be awarded to the Devils in September 1991.[18][1]

[Devils731]

I believe that was the Blue's 7th or so offer to the Devils. I think the arbitration judge took that into account that the Blues didn't seem to be negotiating in good faith, but instead trying to give up next to nothing at first, while the Devils had always stuck adamantly to the fact that they felt Stevens was proper compensation. It made the Blues offer look still suspect while the Devils offer appeared to be what they truly believed to be fair.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I believe that was the Blue's 7th or so offer to the Devils. I think the arbitration judge took that into account that the Blues didn't seem to be negotiating in good faith, but instead trying to give up next to nothing at first, while the Devils had always stuck adamantly to the fact that they felt Stevens was proper compensation. It made the Blues offer look still suspect while the Devils offer appeared to be what they truly believed to be fair.

Their initial offers were absurd. Offer #1 was Dan Quinn and nothing else.

Yeah, the Blues weren't helping their cause at all with the league in a number of ways.

[Triumph]

it was still an utterly monstrous ruling. if it happened today i'd be kind of disgusted with it - it's not fair at all.

when you consider that brind'amour and joseph are both hall of fame players as well, that makes it a little less onerous. although i think st. louis traded brind'amour for one of the sutters and peter zezel and got rid of joseph famously for nothing.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

it was still an utterly monstrous ruling. if it happened today i'd be kind of disgusted with it - it's not fair at all.

when you consider that brind'amour and joseph are both hall of fame players as well, that makes it a little less onerous. although i think st. louis traded brind'amour for one of the sutters and peter zezel and got rid of joseph famously for nothing.

Both players really turned out to be surprises. No one at the time thought Brind'Amour would become that kind of offensive player, and no one thought Curtis Joseph would ever be able to stay healthy enough to be a true #1. Lou pointed out Joseph's injury history when making his case.

It was a monstrous ruling. I've been trying to find Chere's article that chronicled Lou's case...Lou really left no stone unturned when detailing why he thought the Devils should be awarded Stevens, first discounting Brind'Amour's and Joseph's value to the Devils (he pointed out that the team was rich with goalies at both the NHL and AHL levels and didn't need another one), then pointing out how the Devils would need a high-profile player to offset the lost revenues due to Devil fans being upset about Shanahan's departure, and a whole lot of other factors I wish I could remember offhand.

This is why I give Lou so much credit for making this happen. Yeah, the NHL was looking to punish the Blues, but only a perfect case like the one Lou presented would allow the NHL to do so without it being too obvious.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SueNJ97]

Both players really turned out to be surprises. No one at the time thought Brind'Amour would become that kind of offensive player, and no one thought Curtis Joseph would ever be able to stay healthy enough to be a true #1. Lou pointed out Joseph's injury history when making his case.

I believe they pointed out his injury history but hadn't originally asked StL for Stevens, they were willing to take Brind'Amour and Joe Cirilla. It was only when the Blues refused to budge off of their offer and it, seems, didn't think that NJ would find out that Joseph was injured at the time (he had knee problems and wouldn't have been able to play for a while - how they thought NJ wouldn't find that out is beyond me but they weren't exactly brilliant strategists) that NJ decided to ask for Stevens in arbitration.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I believe they pointed out his injury history but hadn't originally asked StL for Stevens, they were willing to take Brind'Amour and Joe Cirilla. It was only when the Blues refused to budge off of their offer and it, seems, didn't think that NJ would find out that Joseph was injured at the time (he had knee problems and wouldn't have been able to play for a while - how they thought NJ wouldn't find that out is beyond me but they weren't exactly brilliant strategists) that NJ decided to ask for Stevens in arbitration.

Do you mean former Devil Joe Cirella? If you do he was playing for the Nordiques at the time.

EDIT: My mistake during the '90-'91 season he went from the Nordiques to the Rangers. So he was a Ranger at the time.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SueNJ97]

Do you mean former Devil Joe Cirella? If you do he was playing for the Nordiques at the time.

Then I have the name wrong, but the asked the Blues to substitute a player for Joseph and to keep Brind'Amour in the deal and it was only when the Blues refused that they went to arbitration and asked for Stevens. They didn't start out with Stevens.

[Triumph]

i am pretty sure the whole arbitration case was online somewhere.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Then I have the name wrong, but the asked the Blues to substitute a player for Joseph and to keep Brind'Amour in the deal and it was only when the Blues refused that they went to arbitration and asked for Stevens. They didn't start out with Stevens.

I think you might be thinking of Paul Cavellini. I remember his name being mentioned in potential packages:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=864

[Pepperkorn]

To me it's League says 2 consecutive top 7 draft picks - you don't have those fine -- 5 consecutive first round picks... you don't have THOSE? You KNOW you don't have those since you gave them up last year???? So you just want to wheel and deal, rules dont apply to you. Feck ya - then I'll take the man WE KNOW you think is worth those 5 draft picks.

Bullsh!t ruling my ass -- bullsh!t dealing by the Blues is more like it.

Man, see??? No one gives a sh!t about rules. No one cares about principles - honor or integrity. hmph...

I like that Lou wasn't as big as a$$hole as I'm beiong about it right off the bat though. He'd never have one seeming like a stubborn c-s*er never have won either ( illiterate much here?)

Edited January 16, 2009 by Pepperkorn

[SueNJ97]

I think you might be thinking of Paul Cavellini. I remember his name being mentioned in potential packages:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=864

That may be it. The whole thing was re-visited around the time of Stevens' retirement and HOF induction and NJ was clear that they would have gone for RB and the one other player that they were asking for but StL wouldn't switch CuJo and they knew CuJo not only had an injury history but was injured at that time. That's when they told the Blues they were definitely asking for Stevens and going to arbitration and the Blues never believed they would win.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

To me it's League says 2 consecutive top 7 draft picks - you don't have those fine -- 5 consecutive first round picks... you don't have THOSE? You KNOW you don't have those since you gave them up last year???? So you just want to wheel and deal, rules dont apply to you. Feck ya - then I'll take the man WE KNOW you think is worth those 5 draft picks.

Bullsh!t ruling my ass -- bullsh!t dealing by the Blues is more like it.

Man, see??? No one gives a sh!t about rules. No one cares about principles - honor or integrity. hmph...

I like that Lou wasn't as big as a$$hole as I'm beiong about it right off the bat though. He'd never have one seeming like a stubborn c-s*er never have won either ( illiterate much here?)

I don't speak Pepperkorn, but here's what I think you might be missing:

Brendan Shanahan was a Group 1 FA. That entitled his previous employer to one of two compensation packages: one submitted by his new team, one submitted by his old team. An arbitrator would then pick one of the packages, based on each team pleading its case.

Scott Stevens was a Group 2 FA. That entitled whatever team lost him to 5 first round draft pick, if his previous team chose not to match the offer.

They were different kinds of free agents altogether.

[Pepperkorn]

Oh. I did not realize that. I read an article that listed the circumstances as the same...years ago when I was making my Stevens website I got hold of that info. Shows how much I know believing the freaking sports media! hmm... could be maybe I just assumed that because the Blues didn't have the picks and arbiter was called in.

also - it was the 2 top 7 picks --- followed by the 5 1st rounders if no top 7 picks were available.

Rockies your funny too - getting more and more knowledgeable as the thread and day passes - googler!

Edited January 16, 2009 by Pepperkorn

[Pepperkorn]

and you do so speak pepperkorn - that's how come we're all writing about Scott Stevens instead of our new acquisition

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Oh. I did not realize that. I read an article that listed the circumstances as the same...years ago when I was making my Stevens website I got hold of that info. Shows how much I know believing the freaking sports media! hmm... could be maybe I just assumed that because the Blues didn't have the picks and arbiter was called in.

also - it was the 2 top 7 picks --- followed by the 5 1st rounders if no top 7 picks were available.

Rockies your funny too - getting more and more knowledgeable as the thread and day passes - googler!

Actually I knew everything I posted off the top of my head (not about the two top seven picks though...I thought it was an automatic 5 first-rounders).

I forget the exact ages for 1s and 2s (it might have been 26 for 2s), but I know age was a factor in how FAs were grouped. I think Group 3s were unrestricted and had to be at least 30 years of age, and Group 5s were over 30s who were making less than the league average at their position.

Some other Group 1s and what their previous team received as compensation (just going off the top of my head again):

FA: Adam Graves (to Rangers) Compensation: Troy Mallette (to Oilers)

NOTE: Suffice it to say that the Oilers lost out on this one, big time. But their stats were similar at the time Graves signed. Mallette had a miserable time in Edmonton, as Sather made him feel unwanted the second he got there.

FA: Troy Crowder (to Red Wings) Compensation: Dave Barr and Randy McKay (to Devils)

NOTE: Lou asked for Bob Probert. No one thought at the time that McKay would wind up being the best player in that transaction. Crowder wound up becoming injury-plagued.

FA: Rob Zamuner (to Lightning) Compensation: 3rd round pick (to Rangers)

NOTE: Since Ranger prospect Zamuner had never played a single minute in the NHL for the Rangers, the arbitrator ruled that the Rangers were entitled to the round of the pick they used to select him. That didn't go over well with the Rangers.

FA: Peter Nedved (to Blues) Compensation: Craig Janney (to Canucks)

NOTE: This was a bit of an embarassment for the NHL. For some reason Nedved was allowed to play right away (he was signed late into the season...he had been holding out), while the Canucks had to wait for the arbitration hearing. Janney never even suited up for the Canucks...he was promptly traded back to the Blues.

Group 2s had it tough because even if a team made an offer, his previous team had the right to match it. Sergei Federov signed a big offer from the Hurricanes, which the Red Wings matched. The Rangers tried to get Joe Sakic, but his team matched as well.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976