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Why don't the Devils draw more penalties?


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It's mid-January, and the Devils are sitting in last in a familiar category - penalties drawn. The Devils have drawn a total of 158 minor penalties this year. The league leader is Carolina, with 211. That's an average of a minor penalty more a game they're getting than we're getting, and therefore an average of around .2 goals per game they're getting that we are not.

In fact, here's New Jersey's rank in this stat since 1997-98:

08-09: 30th out of 30

07-08: 26th

06-07: 27th

05-06: 27th

03-04: 27th

02-03: 30th

01-02: 30th

00-01: 30th

99-00: 28th (out of 28)

98-99: 25th (out of 27)

97-98: 26th (out of 26)

The team has been totally remade, and yet here we sit in last again. We've never even been close to not last. It's not like there are other teams who've consistently been last - pre-lockout, the Flyers and Wings were often near us, but since the lockout, they've finished in the top 5 some seasons.

Interestingly, one team has been consistently at the top since 2002 - Carolina. Now we've figured out in 2006 that that team is made up of floppers, but they are getting over a power play per game more than New Jersey has over the last decade. That should add up to an extra 15 goals per season on the power play - something for Lou and company to mull over.

Edited by Triumph
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It may have a lot to do with player personalities. The Devils only have 2 divers on the team and they're such whiners that referees hate them, in Langs and Clarkson. The Devils other players don't go down quickly enough. On top of that there is reputation for the Devils as a plodding team, the Devils themselves taking few penalties, and there may still be fat donut carryover even though it was 2 decades ago.

We'll never know but those are some factors that may or may not be involved.

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here's something i found - from 2002-03 to the end of 2007-08:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oTTEygsGrkE/SKyB...DIFFoverall.jpg

from this interesting investigation:

http://www.fiveholefanatics.ca/2008/08/spe...ferentials.html

the devils were 5th overall in penalty differential over that time. the rangers were 1st. one wonders how the hell the rangers managed to be that good at avoiding penalties while drawing them because their team was terrible in every other respect in 03 and 04..

Edited by Triumph
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I can't believe we are still last in this catagory even after we started playing more offensively. But then again it's not like we have a good powerplay.

The Devils PP is pretty good. 19% conversion, 14th in the league and adding a guy whose main strength is going to be the PP.

The Devils special teams were garbage to start the year and they've now been carrying the team the past few weeks.

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The Devils PP is pretty good. 19% conversion, 14th in the league and adding a guy whose main strength is going to be the PP.

The Devils special teams were garbage to start the year and they've now been carrying the team the past few weeks.

Now add Shanny to that tonight. Gigidy Gigidy GI-GI-DY

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Is there a correlation between penalties called against a team to the amount taken. Perhaps a team that takes more penalties, gets more PPs because of the refs inclination to call an even up call.

i think this has more to do with it than anything else. the devils just don't take that many penalties and as such, the refs are not going to be calling the other team for questionable stuff providing one team with a 3-1 advantage on PP time.

penalties are often called as a result of constant pressure and outworking the other team. even though the devils forecheck, they don't do so in a way where the other team is forced to hook and hold.

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penalties are often called as a result of constant pressure and outworking the other team. even though the devils forecheck, they don't do so in a way where the other team is forced to hook and hold.

I would disagree. Generally, I think other teams are more likely to get away with the little hooks and holds the Devils are often called for. The Devils penalties tend to be the more strict variety while teams against the Devils tend to have to be more blatant to be called.

Edited by Devils731
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It may have a lot to do with player personalities. The Devils only have 2 divers on the team and they're such whiners that referees hate them, in Langs and Clarkson. The Devils other players don't go down quickly enough. On top of that there is reputation for the Devils as a plodding team, the Devils themselves taking few penalties, and there may still be fat donut carryover even though it was 2 decades ago.

We'll never know but those are some factors that may or may not be involved.

I second this notion. Traditionally, the Devils are a hard-working, blue collar team. Not a lot of bitches on the roster.

On a related note, watching yesterday's Pens/Rangers game, I noticed at least 3 separate occasions when a Ranger would make a play that may have been a penalty depending on the ref's mood (a borderline hit, interfering, etc) and while the play was still going on, a Penguin player not involved in the potential penalty would stop playing, raise his arms and look to the refs for a call. IN THE MIDDLE OF A PLAY. I couldn't believe it happened so often. Pathetic.

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The sad, short answer is that we dont have anyone with the moves to cause our opponents to have to trip or hold them.

Well, what about Parise and Elias? I would go as far to say that Zach Parise is good at drawing penalties. But things may fall off a lot after that.

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The sad, short answer is that we dont have anyone with the moves to cause our opponents to have to trip or hold them.

c'mon. it's not like this is limited to one year. in 2000-01, this team had alex mogilny, petr sykora, patrik elias, scott gomez, etc. and still finished dead last. we were worse than the atlanta thrashers of 1999-00 whose leading scorers were andrew brunette and ray ferraro.

part of it in the past is because refs tended to not call penalties on teams that were behind, but would call them on teams that were ahead. i've noticed this trend surfacing again (elias's uncalled trip against the islanders - are you kidding me?).

fwiw, jerry, i have heard this brought up very occasionally by mike emrick.

Edited by Triumph
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I think its because, with few above-mentioned exceptions, we don't have primadonna whiny bitches on this team. Although Marty a drama queen when he gets bumped in the crease, our two star offensive players -- Zack and Patty -- are "keep your head down and keep working" guys. They don't whine, they don't throw up their hands and they don't try to hold private lobbyist sessions with the refs in between plays.

It also, as mentioned above, probably has to do with the fact that we don't take a lot of penalties. Even though its horsesh!t in the highest, refs don't like to call "unbalanced" games and -- whether consciously or sub-consciously -- this leads to less calls in our favor.

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It's a weird phenomenon, sort of like why the Capitals led the league in injuries for so many years, even with plenty of player turnover.

The Devils have always been about capitalizing on other teams turnovers. They've never been a fast or aggressive club so they never really press the issue...less opportunities to be hauled down or interfered with.

They're also very sound positionally, that's why they don't take any penalties.

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It's mid-January, and the Devils are sitting in last in a familiar category - penalties drawn. The Devils have drawn a total of 158 minor penalties this year. The league leader is Carolina, with 211. That's an average of a minor penalty more a game they're getting than we're getting, and therefore an average of around .2 goals per game they're getting that we are not.

In fact, here's New Jersey's rank in this stat since 1997-98:

08-09: 30th out of 30

07-08: 26th

06-07: 27th

05-06: 27th

03-04: 27th

02-03: 30th

01-02: 30th

00-01: 30th

99-00: 28th (out of 28)

98-99: 25th (out of 27)

97-98: 26th (out of 26)

The team has been totally remade, and yet here we sit in last again. We've never even been close to not last. It's not like there are other teams who've consistently been last - pre-lockout, the Flyers and Wings were often near us, but since the lockout, they've finished in the top 5 some seasons.

Interestingly, one team has been consistently at the top since 2002 - Carolina. Now we've figured out in 2006 that that team is made up of floppers, but they are getting over a power play per game more than New Jersey has over the last decade. That should add up to an extra 15 goals per season on the power play - something for Lou and company to mull over.

Where did you get those stats?

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