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Nets warming to the idea of a move to the Prudential Center


thelastonealive

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I don't see how anyone thinks a team the Devils shared a building with for 25 years and impacted them in no way whatsoever fan cultivation wise, will come to Newark and impact them in any way differently.

you really are tying to compare the Devils c.1983-2006 playing in an arena they had little control in and paid a boatload in rent to the Devils in the PruCenter?

As a matter of fact, name me one team in the NBA and one team in the NHL that share a building that can say their fan base grew or was cultivated by the presence of one another. If this was the case, the Clippers would be moved in with the Ducks instead of being 2nd rate citizens to the Lakers at Staples. Notice that the Pistons don't share with the Red Wings? The Heat and Panthers parted ways to new arenas for each. The Coyotes got killed moving in to the America West Arena b/c the Suns controlled it.

You cant compare any of these because they all have their own unique situation. These teams arent necessarily in their own arenas because they decided sharing would be detrimental. In fact, the teams you listed all have valid reasons for being where they are. Detroit is even looking at sharing with the Pistons somewhere down the line. Phoenix got killed at America West because the Suns owned it and the building wasnt configured for hockey. The Clippers play in LA because of the agreement when Staples Center was built.

Anyone think the Leafs need the Raptors? LOL

Are you honestly comparing the Leafs to the Devils situation? Really?

VBK will have more $ in his pocket from the Nets and he'll spend it on the team in terms of players? That's not 100% guaranteed that he will, that's only an assumption naturally made by fans who believe in sports the more $ an owner makes, the more he puts it into the team. Not all teams are the Yankees. Knowing VBK he'll use that $ constructively, but Lou is the one who deciedes what players get what.

The opportunity for Lou to spend extra cash on players is there, but the extra money could go towards public relations, arena improvements, fan ammenities, ticket prices, rent, etc...Again, VBK might keep every dime to himself but the Opportunity is there for increased fan cultivation.

More restaurants and bars pop up b/c the Nets are there? Why would the Nets moving to the Rock automatically require the existance of more of them?

Really? You dont see how?

Edited by devlman
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Hahaha ok you dont want to call 89.6%, 90%...fine, thats beside the point anyway.

So you want to round that up and have 76 people who don't exist, magically come alive? Go ahead. You must go to the Dolan school of padded attendance. lol

Your main point that more money cant lead to cultivating a fan base is absurd. The whole point of running an organization is to make money, much of which goes into back to reinvesting in your product (of which the fan base is a major part of).

Again, for the second time, VBK is going to make $ becuase that's the art of the deal and he'll use it constructively. But, i do not expect him to take 100% of that $ and throw it into the team. He's a business man who i am sure is not into the Devils for nothing of his own accord.

But, AGAIN, my point is the Nets presence in Newark will not cultivate the Devils fanbase the way you and some fans think it will. Some of you have this grand plan in your heads. That's why i brought up attendance in the first place. Even the lure of a brand new beautiful arena, accessable from major highways and public trans with plenty to do beofre and after hasn't spiked attendance to near/consistant sellouts or cultivated the fan base drastically......BUT here come the Nets to save the day because some people think the Nets $ will do something a new building and prime location can't do!

If VBK needs the Nets $ that badly to grow or cultivate the Devils fanbase, they are in deeper sh!t then thought.

So again, to keep it simple so we stay on track here:

More money = Many more opportunites for cultivating your fanbase.

Again, i dont know how anyone can disagree with that lol.

Yet again you keep changing the wording of that "forumla" each time you post it to fit your argument or rebuttal.

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I dont think you fully understand the money involved here. You can argue we dont NEED the Nets. But if someone offered you extra income, extra exposure, someone to chip in for rent, you would pass on that and say money is meaningless and that you cant find a use for it? lol

No one needs the Nets (Although their help with the rent is very important!), but people are excited about the extra income it can bring our club. Full stop. If you are of the mindset that money has no value and extra income is of no use then theres no way you'll see my point lol.

Edited by devlman
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I guess its a good thing for the Rock & a dress rehearsal of sorts for a different NBA team should the Nets actually move (whats it been like 6 years?)

The bummer is that it sounds like the deal means family shows go to Izod. I had hoped to never set foot in there again, but to take the kids to the circus, I guess I'll have to.

If you're in Monmouth county, go to Trenton to see the family shows. It's a smaller arena and any seat is a good one, and they get all the same family shows as the Rock and Continentizod Center.

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you really are tying to compare the Devils c.1983-2006 playing in an arena they had little control in and paid a boatload in rent to the Devils in the PruCenter?

The sh!t deal McMullen had at CAA isn't the point here. The Nets/Devils presence at CAA for 25 years did nothing for one another in terms of fanbases.

You cant compare any of these because they all have their own unique situation.

If these teams thought that sharing would be benefical, they'd do it.

These teams arent necessarily in their own arenas because they decided sharing would be detrimental.

How so? Let's have the taxpayers build two arenas because we cant co-exist (because it does nothing for one another fanbase wise) or share the multi-million dollar pot b/c we're greedy bastards?

In fact, the teams you listed all have valid reasons for being where they are.

Detroit is even looking at sharing with the Pistons somewhere down the line.

The Wings are starting to warm to wanting a new building, but the Pistons threw major upgrades into the Palace and have no intention of replacing it. It's one of the oldest, but it is far from being replaced as it has many features that new building include when being built.

Phoenix got killed at America West because the Suns owned it and the building wasnt configured for hockey.

You just parroted back what i said just adding the hockey part.

The Clippers play in LA because of the agreement when Staples Center was built.

You're shifting. If it was benefical to the Clippers and Ducks to cultivate a fan base by sharing Honda Center they would have done so before the Clipeprs moved into Staples.

Are you honestly comparing the Leafs to the Devils situation? Really?

Are you really thinking the Leafs need the Raptors in anyway whatsoever?

The opportunity for Lou to spend extra cash on players is there, but the extra money could go towards public relations, arena improvements, fan ammenities, ticket prices, rent, etc...Again, VBK might keep every dime to himself but the Opportunity is there for increased fan cultivation.

That's why, if this deal comes to pass, we'll find out who's right and who's wrong in the end.

Edited by SJP20
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this argument is so silly. what's obviously true is that the nets' presence in newark makes it more likely that the area around the prudential center becomes legitimate and isn't just a few bars and restaurants scraping to get by on 120 arena dates a year. this in turn makes newark's downtown a better place, which then gets more people to go to both nets and devils games, which presumably continues to spiral into making newark a better, safer place to live and work. whether the nets have any positive impact on the devils as a franchise is up for some debate (i think so, but there's a counter-argument to be made as well).

both of you are intentionally misreading each other's arguments and continually not stating your central arguments.

Edited by Triumph
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this argument is so silly. what's obviously true is that the nets' presence in newark makes it more likely that the area around the prudential center becomes legitimate and isn't just a few bars and restaurants scraping to get by on 120 arena dates a year. this in turn makes newark's downtown a better place, which then gets more people to go to both nets and devils games, which presumably continues to spiral into making newark a better, safer place to live and work. whether the nets have any positive impact on the devils as a franchise is up for some debate (i think so, but there's a counter-argument to be made as well).

both of you are intentionally misreading each other's arguments and continually not stating your central arguments.

I just thought that Newark and by extension, the Devils, benefiting was already easily understood. Didnt know I had to spell that out. I suppose not.

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I dont think you fully understand the money involved here. You can argue we dont NEED the Nets. But if someone offered you extra income, extra exposure, someone to chip in for rent, you would pass on that and say money is meaningless and that you cant find a use for it? lol

That's the business end of it, which i have said is a no-brainer based on this being a business deal first and foremost. However, you keep shifting my argument and skipping over what i write to fit yours.

The Nets presence will not save the day in terms of cultivating a fanbase or spike attendance over what a new building in a prime location should have accomplished.

The counter argument is the Nets $ will be recycled into the Devils therefore cultivating a fanbase further. That is in no where set in stone and as you said, VBK could pocket it (or a good chunk of it). If i see that Nets $ being recycled into the Devils then it was well worth it./

No one needs the Nets (Although their help with the rent is very important!), but people are excited about the extra income it can bring our club. Full stop. If you are of the mindset that money has no value and extra income is of no use then theres no way you'll see my point lol.

The extra income will be only as good as it's used in the end, and as i said, we'll see how this shakes out when it happens.

Edited by SJP20
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ame='devlman' date='23 October 2009 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1256318678' post='811522']

I dont think you fully understand the money involved here. You can argue we dont NEED the Nets. But if someone offered you extra income, extra exposure, someone to chip in for rent, you would pass on that and say money is meaningless and that you cant find a use for it? lol

That's the business end of it, which i have said is a no-brainer based on this being a business deal first and foremost. However, you keep shifting my argument and skipping over what i write to fit yours.

The Nets presence will not save the day in terms of cultivating a fanbase or spike attendance over what a new building in a prime location should have accomplished.

The counter argument is the Nets $ will be recycled into the Devils therefore cultivating a fanbase further. That is in no where set in stone and as you said, VBK could pocket it (or a good chunk of it). If i see that Nets $ being recycled into the Devils then it was well worth it./

The extra income will be only as good as it's used in the end, and as i said, we'll see how this shakes out when it happens.

As ive said continuously from the start, regardless of how they end up using the money, the Opportunity to use it beneficially towards the Devils and Newark will be there.

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also unknown poster's 'newark is a prime location' argument needs to be dealt with. newark is not a prime location. central, yes. easier to get to for most devils fans - sure. it is still neither prime nor ideal.

Thats the least of the points we were discussing here. That is not very central to the discussion

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also unknown poster's 'newark is a prime location' argument needs to be dealt with. newark is not a prime location. central, yes. easier to get to for most devils fans - sure. it is still neither prime nor ideal.

What was a "prime or ideal" situation in your mind, Triumph? Houston? Hamilton? Kansas City?

Hey how about suburbia? We could have moved the Devils to Morristown or Short Hills around multi-millionaires homes instead of that big, bad inner city.

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What was a "prime or ideal" situation in your mind, Triumph? Houston? Hamilton? Kansas City?

Hey how about suburbia? We could have moved the Devils to Morristown or Short Hills around multi-millionaires homes instead of that big, bad inner city.

i am sure that not everyone renewed their tickets when the devils moved, and this is what makes it neither prime nor ideal. the best location, all else being equal? sure. but it's not going to be some enormous draw, like 'oh great, the devils are in newark now!' arguing otherwise is just being dense.

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I became a season ticket holder BECAUSE they moved to Newark, and so did an additional 2000 people when they moved. No location in this area is prime or ideal, because of the millions of people that are scattered all over the place and in various conditions such as having mass transit in their town or nowhere near it.

Anyway, back to this arena deal. I love how they include indoor soccer and lacrosse because the indoor soccer team is on hiatus because their league folded and the lacrosse team moved to Orlando and drew people in the hundreds last year. For the Rock's sake, I hope they include MMA and WWE events as "sports"

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I think the Nets moving to the Rock would be huge for them. One, Newark is an urban city and as such basketball, not hockey, is king. Two, most people who are ubanites (such as myself) don't own a car and there's no trans to the IZOD on nights where the Nets play. Having them play in the Rock permanently would give them eaiser access to the arena by train, bus or even walking.Listen, you put a team like the one that went to the NBA finals 3 years running and that place will sell out nightly, and may even out draw the Devils in their own building.

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i am sure that not everyone renewed their tickets when the devils moved, and this is what makes it neither prime nor ideal. the best location, all else being equal? sure. but it's not going to be some enormous draw, like 'oh great, the devils are in newark now!' arguing otherwise is just being dense.

Yep, let's all be afraid of big, bad Newark.

What's dense is people who are ignorant and bigoted and that is exactly what those people are.

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i am sure that not everyone renewed their tickets when the devils moved, and this is what makes it neither prime nor ideal. the best location, all else being equal? sure. but it's not going to be some enormous draw, like 'oh great, the devils are in newark now!' arguing otherwise is just being dense.

What has that got to do with what we were discussing? You criticize that we were not staying central to the argument only to bring up a random point that offers little to the conversation.

Edited by devlman
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Yep, let's all be afraid of big, bad Newark.

What's dense is people who are ignorant and bigoted and that is exactly what those people are.

:rolleyes:

What has that got to do with what we were discussing?

it has a lot to do with it. unknown poster is trying to argue that devils' attendance isn't great considering this prime awesome location the devils have and i am arguing that while the location is best, it is hardly prime or awesome. it's better than CAA, but not to the extent that's being claimed here.

Edited by Triumph
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I became a season ticket holder BECAUSE they moved to Newark, and so did an additional 2000 people when they moved. No location in this area is prime or ideal, because of the millions of people that are scattered all over the place and in various conditions such as having mass transit in their town or nowhere near it.

Bingo

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:rolleyes:

it has a lot to do with it. unknown poster is trying to argue that devils' attendance isn't great considering this prime awesome location the devils have and i am arguing that while the location is best, it is hardly prime or awesome. it's better than CAA, but not to the extent that's being claimed here.

Either way, unknown poster's attendance point was something I was refuting because it didnt make much of a difference in this story with the Nets, so continuing on a tangent with the attendance thing doesnt really get to the central theme of the debate, as you like to point out.

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you can't fight city hall. the NJSEA is not going away. plus 'family events' means 'going to newark is scary'.

seems like a devil's bargain, pardon the pun.

they already get half or more of the family shows. they've taken it to NJSEA there, they can't get the concerts for obvious reasons, but they've done well with the family shows. there has to be alot of money (or "benefits") coming under the table for this to make any sense. keeping Izod open is important to the state so they can keep the patronage going and keep hiding the growing mountain of debt involved under the rug.

or, this is a leak out of Bergen to make the Devils look evil when they don't take up the state on the offer, I don't think JVB, given political preferences, has any interest in helping Corzine politically.

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what's obviously true is that the nets' presence in newark makes it more likely that the area around the prudential center becomes legitimate and isn't just a few bars and restaurants scraping to get by on 120 arena dates a year. this in turn makes newark's downtown a better place, which then gets more people to go to both nets and devils games, which presumably continues to spiral into making newark a better, safer place to live and work.

What's the point of it if there's a lame duck franchise who still isn't committed to the place; as well as the arena losing money-making events to that craphole up north that has outlived its usefulness for a decade?

This whole scenario makes no sense honestly.

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It's all fine and dandy to talk about how the teams will benefit, or not, from this.. But I'm still waiting for the nay-sayers to tell me how the Devils will pay their taxes without the Nets.. Because right now that isn't happening

Nor are they paying the City the rent $2 M behind and there are other outstanding bills due. These all get paid when this deal goes through. Maybe then the money bleeding stops.

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