Any boxing fans in here?

[ThreeCups]

Unfortunately, it looks like the Floyd/Pac Man fight is not going to take place because of Pac's refusal to submit to random blood testing....what a shame.

[ThreeCups]

I wouldn't call myself a "boxing fan", but any of the big fights... Floyd/Hatton, Pacq/Hatton, etc.. I'll definitely watch. I was extremely upset when I found out Floyd/Manny was going to be cancelled... and not to knock on Floyd, at all, but would he have made it out of the 2nd round anyway? I was pretty pissed when I spent 60 bucks to watch a first round TKO in the last "high profile" Manny/Hatton fight..

Manny has had tailor made opponents served to him on a platter. If the Floyd fight goes down, you will see Floyd take him to school....

[ThreeCups]

Manny's faster and stronger in the ring, there's no doubting that. Floyd has MUCH bette defense, which is no revelation to anyone who's watched these two fight.. and, you can argue that Mayweather has better stamina.. but boxing is much more about the offense than the defense, and Manny's got him there. Not only do I think manny will (or would have?) won, I think he would've by KO in a mid round.. certainly not go the distance.

There is doubting that. Floyd is a natural welterweight, while Pac has jumped several weight classes over a 9 month period and has not missed a beat in doing so. That combined with his adamant refusal to take blood drug tests; really raises questions. Manny is fast, but so is Floyd. I would give Floyd a slight edge in the speed category. I would also give him a slight edge in the strength category as well. As I said, he has been at this weight for awhile. Pac has come up from 130 verrrry quickly. Tell Bernard Hopkins that "boxing is much more about the offense than the defense." The dude is still getting it done at age 45, being a very defensive fighter. Manny KO Floyd? This takes the cake as the most ridiculous line in your whole post. 1. Manny will hardly be able to land flush punches on Floyd because of his superior defense and overall boxing skill. 2. Floyd has NEVER been KNOCKED DOWN in a fight, much less KNOCKED OUT! If this fight takes place, Floyd will win a sizable unanimous decision, or possibly KO Pac. I would go with a 12 round decisive victory for Floyd.

[95Crash]

Is the fight "off" right now? I want to see it, if it happens.

[ThreeCups]

Is the fight "off" right now? I want to see it, if it happens.

Not totally off yet...it is a chess match....there is still hope it gets made.

[devilsfan26]

I'm not a huge boxing fan but I like to watch John Duddy. I was at the Prudential Center to see his one loss against some chump from Ohio.

[ThreeCups]

Enjoy talking to yourself about boxing. I saw nobody said anything, so I thought I'd at least try to hold a conversation with you.. I told you I barely watch any boxing, and those were my opinions based on the few fights I had seen. I'll tell you what I don't appreciate; I don't appreciate being talked down to. You're annoying as is, but an obnoxious "i'm smarter than you" post was plenty to put you on ignore.

It's an internet message board, wasn't trying to "hurt your feelings". Ignore away.....if you did not want any type of response to your post then you should have never replied in the first place. No big deal...

[ThreeCups]

Oh, no, that's not it. You're just a trolling asswipe who won't be here once the Devils hot-streak slows down a tad.

Friends?

Giving you the facts does not constitute "trolling", but to each his own. I will be here till the very end my friend, whether it is a Cup victory, or first round exit....

[ThreeCups]

I won't count on it.

You'll see....if you wanna stop being overly sensitive, I'll be here to talk some hockey.

[Mike441]

is it still on?

[ThreeCups]

is it still on?

There is going to be some meetings tomorrow for both sides. Right now it is not looking good, but who knows.....

[Beezer34]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4794912

wow

[DaneykoIsGod]

I hope this fight happens, should be a good one.

I would root for Manny but put my money on Floyd. I think a Manny win would be great for the sport, but I think Floyd is just too good and would out-box him to win on cards. It's what he always does. Unless you're an avid student of the sweet science, those kinds of matches are boring.

[DaneykoIsGod]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4803490

The fight is off.

Arum said Pacquiao agreed to shorten the window for a blood test to 24 days before the fight. In order to receive a Nevada boxing license, Pacquiao took the standard annual blood test 24 days before his May 2009 fight with Ricky Hatton.

"Manny accepted what was on the table and Mayweather rejected it," Arum said. "Haymon and Schaefer tried to convince Floyd all [Tuesday night] and [Wednesday] and he wouldn't agree to it. He didn't want the fight. He never wanted the fight. I always knew the fight wouldn't happen."

[ThreeCups]

I knew it was not gonna happen. It was doomed the minute both sides could not agree on the blood testing terms. Mediation did nothing....huge black eye for the sport. Both fighters are going to fight guys they will be HEAVILY favored against in their next matchups....Shame on Pac for not taking the tests.

[DaneykoIsGod]

I'm curious about the science behind the testing. Pacquiao agreed to blood tests 24 days before and immediately after the fight, leaving a 24-day window without testing. But if he took anything during those 24 days, wouldn't it show in the test taken immediately after the fight?

If so, he probably refused because random testing any time in that 24-day window could be a distraction from a very strict and rigid training period. If not, it certainly seems like he's hiding something.

Either way, it looks like Pacquiao conceded in some places while Mayweather gave absolutely no ground, which makes one wonder why he ever agreed to mediation in the first place.

Both sides are smelling fishy.

[ThreeCups]

I'm curious about the science behind the testing. Pacquiao agreed to blood tests 24 days before and immediately after the fight, leaving a 24-day window without testing. But if he took anything during those 24 days, wouldn't it show in the test taken immediately after the fight?

If so, he probably refused because random testing any time in that 24-day window could be a distraction from a very strict and rigid training period. If not, it certainly seems like he's hiding something.

Either way, it looks like Pacquiao conceded in some places while Mayweather gave absolutely no ground, which makes one wonder why he ever agreed to mediation in the first place.

Both sides are smelling fishy.

What is fishy about Mayweather? He wanted random drug testing throughout and Pac refused. Mayweather would be subjected to the SAME tests himself. Pac left a $40 million payday on the table for what? If you have nothing to hide, you do whatever it takes to get that kind of money for 1 fight....

[DaneykoIsGod]

What is fishy about Mayweather? He wanted random drug testing throughout and Pac refused.

Let's go back to the start here ... the PED claim is completely unfounded. Mayweather Jr., on the other hand, has long been criticized for avoiding his most challenging opponents. Is it really so hard to believe that this is all just one big diversion from a PR wiz like Mayweather Jr. (and Sr., for that matter, who started this whole PED fiasco last fall)?

Mayweather would be subjected to the SAME tests himself.

Mayweather agreed to be subjected to the same testing because he knew Pacquiao wasn't gonna agree to his ridiculous, unprecedented demands. It's like agreeing to get shot in the face as long as Pacquiao agreed to get shot in the face too.

Pac left a $40 million payday on the table for what?

Actually, it was Mayweather Jr. who walked away from the payday. Both sides agreed to mediation. Pacquiao accepted what the mediator put on the table (he actually started compromising before mediation even began). Mayweather Jr. did not.

Going into this, Mayweather wanted blood tests at random leading right up to the day of the fight. Pacquiao was willing to be tested as late as 30 days before the fight. The mediator put 24 days before the fight on the table. That ain't exactly in the middle. What does that tell you about Mayweather's demands?

If you have nothing to hide, you do whatever it takes to get that kind of money for 1 fight....

Neither one of these guys comes off smelling like roses here. But Pacquiao did more to make this fight happen than Mayweather Jr. did.

Edited January 7, 2010 by DaneykoIsGod

[ThreeCups]

1. Regardless of the PED claim being unfounded, Pac should not be so adamantly against the tests. Alot of people have suspected something of him due to the fact that he moved several weight classes in one year and has not missed a beat. He has in with a natural welter and did not seem to feel Cotto's punches at all, while others who have been in the division have been badly battered by them. In answer to your question "Is it really so hard to believe that this is all just one big diversion from a PR wiz like Mayweather Jr. (and Sr., for that matter, who started this whole PED fiasco last fall)?" YES, it is! Mayweather truly believes he would beat Pac, and is all about making money. His nickname is "Money Mayweather" after all.

2. How could he KNOW that Pacquiao would not agree to the testing? This request may be "unprecedented", but for a fight of this magnitude Floyd wanted to ensure there was a level playing field. Many other boxers have come out and said that they would accept the tests to clear their name and end all doubts. Pac agreed to the blood tests, but wanted a different time frame. To compare a simple blood test to "getting shot in the face" is beyond absurd. This type of analogy just makes one look severely foolish.

3. Floyd did not walk away from the payday. He still wants the fight pending Manny taking the tests. Pac's people are putting further lies out in the media to cover this whole thing up some more. The mediator did NOT put anything on the table. See: HERE "The Mediator himself did not formulate, recommend or issue a Mediator's Proposal. The Mediator did not make an evaluation or finding that any one of the many proposals considered by the parties was the correct protocol." This was all BS from Arum and Team Pacquiao. It all comes down to: IF PACQUIAO HAS NOTHING TO HIDE, WHY NOT TAKE THE TESTS AND MAKE $40 MILLION?!?!?!? This fight not happening is ENTIRELY Pac's fault. I was a big fan of his too, but this is just a complete mess. In closing, "But Pacquiao did more to make this fight happen than Mayweather Jr. did." NO, he did not. Just take the SAME tests Floyd would be subjected to, and the fight would be on. It is insane to me that anyone can place any of the blame for this on Mayweather. Just because he wants to make sure it is a fair fight? As I mentioned previously, many boxers would like to see this type of testing put in place for EVERY fight.

[DaneykoIsGod]

Aw come on, man. You're buying everything the Mayweather Camp is saying while claiming everything coming from the Pacquiao Camp is B.S. That's just ridiculous. It's boxing, both camps are full of sh!t.

It looks like the blood-test-free window of days prior to the fight is the only issue right now. At first Pacquiao refused blood tests at all, then conceded to a 30-day window, then further conceded to 24 days. It just came out today that Mayweather countered with a 14-day window, which now puts the onus back on Pacquiao. So it looks like my previous indignation at Mayweather for agreeing to mediation just to refuse to budge was unfounded.

I still think it's ridiculous for Mayweather to make these demands when he never did the same for De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, etc. The only grounds for his claims are that Pacquiao moved up in weight class and didn't suck afterwards. Well, um, Mayweather's done that too. Was he juiced for the De La Hoya fight? Hatton switched between Light Welterweight and Welterweight a couple times before moving back up for the Mayweather bout without missing a step. Where were the PED suspicions for the then-undefeated Hatton? His last opponent, Marquez, moved up in weight class four times, with the fourth time being for the Mayweather bout (only to have Mayweather weigh in too heavy, then have the rules changed so his weight would be OK). Where was the demand for Marquez to comply to these random blood testing standards? All of these were Vegas fights ... Vegas's standard urine testing was good enough for Mayweather for all of these bouts, why the sudden change? None of this seems suspicious to you at all?

Sure, Pacquiao could have complied immediately and we'd have a fight to talk about instead of all this bickering. Because he didn't, he comes off looking like he has something to hide. But why did Mayweather have to make this the most difficult process ever? To say Pacquiao is the only one to blame for this when he was ready and willing to fight by the same Vegas standards that Mayweather had for his previous five bouts is ... well ... it's just weird.

[ThreeCups]

Aw come on, man. You're buying everything the Mayweather Camp is saying while claiming everything coming from the Pacquiao Camp is B.S. That's just ridiculous. It's boxing, both camps are full of sh!t.

It looks like the blood-test-free window of days prior to the fight is the only issue right now. At first Pacquiao refused blood tests at all, then conceded to a 30-day window, then further conceded to 24 days. It just came out today that Mayweather countered with a 14-day window, which now puts the onus back on Pacquiao. So it looks like my previous indignation at Mayweather for agreeing to mediation just to refuse to budge was unfounded.

I still think it's ridiculous for Mayweather to make these demands when he never did the same for De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, etc. The only grounds for his claims are that Pacquiao moved up in weight class and didn't suck afterwards. Well, um, Mayweather's done that too. Was he juiced for the De La Hoya fight? Hatton switched between Light Welterweight and Welterweight a couple times before moving back up for the Mayweather bout without missing a step. Where were the PED suspicions for the then-undefeated Hatton? His last opponent, Marquez, moved up in weight class four times, with the fourth time being for the Mayweather bout (only to have Mayweather weigh in too heavy, then have the rules changed so his weight would be OK). Where was the demand for Marquez to comply to these random blood testing standards? All of these were Vegas fights ... Vegas's standard urine testing was good enough for Mayweather for all of these bouts, why the sudden change? None of this seems suspicious to you at all?

Sure, Pacquiao could have complied immediately and we'd have a fight to talk about instead of all this bickering. Because he didn't, he comes off looking like he has something to hide. But why did Mayweather have to make this the most difficult process ever? To say Pacquiao is the only one to blame for this when he was ready and willing to fight by the same Vegas standards that Mayweather had for his previous five bouts is ... well ... it's just weird.

They are both full of BS to some extent, but Pac's camp made claims about what the mediator suggested when in fact the mediator made no recommendation whatsoever. Mayweather did not make these demands of anyone else because he knew that A. He would beat them easily where Pac is somewhat of a challenge and B. These guys did not gain massive bulk within a year and seemingly walk through a big punching welterweight in Cotto. It is just suspicious. Hatton did not go up several weight classes in a year and look like a machine the way Pac has. He does not feel punches from men that are naturally larger than him. Also, the magnitude of THIS fight is 10x any other previous one. Pound for pound supremacy is on the line, as well as Floyd's "0". (as protected as it may be) To me, it is simple. Floyd made a seemingly unusual request. However, if you were innocent...and for $40 MILLION....wouldn't you just agree to the tests to get the fight made?

Edited January 8, 2010 by ThreeCups

[Beezer34]

...for $40 MILLION?! Wouldn't you just agree to the tests to get the fight made?

What is May's team knows something? Maybe Pac is on the juice.

[DaneykoIsGod]

They are both full of BS to some extent, but Pac's camp made claims about what the mediator suggested when in fact the mediator made no recommendation whatsoever. Mayweather did not make these demands of anyone else because he knew that A. He would beat them easily where Pac is somewhat of a challenge and B. These guys did not gain massive bulk within a year and seemingly walk through a big punching welterweight in Cotto. It is just suspicious. Hatton did not go up several weight classes in a year and look like a machine the way Pac has. He does not feel punches from men that are naturally larger than him. Also, the magnitude of THIS fight is 10x any other previous one. Pound for pound supremacy is on the line, as well as Floyd's "0". (as protected as it may be) To me, it is simple. Floyd made a seemingly unusual request. However, if you were innocent...and for $40 MILLION....wouldn't you just agree to the tests to get the fight made?

You're right about the talk coming from Pacquiao's camp about the mediator. But the point I was trying to make is that fighters move up and down weight classes all the time, Mayweather included. Just because Pacquiao was successful means he must be juicing? By these same standards ... De La Hoya's punches didn't seem to hurt Mayweather very much. It's pretty hypocritical of him to throw these allegations on Pacquiao when they could have applied to him as well.

With the exception of Cotto, Pacquiao has fought a lot of the same big guys as Mayweather: De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez. And he enjoyed the same, if not more, success against those guys as Mayweather (Mayweather beat De La Hoya on the cards, Pacquiao got a TKO in the 8th round; Mayweather got a TKO of Hatton in the 10th, Pacquiao KOed him in the 2nd). But Mayweather's notorious reluctance to fight legit challengers has been cited by many as why he never fought Cotto. Maybe it's this whole thing is sour grapes because Pacquiao made doing what Mayweather was afraid to do look easy? That's a stretch, I admit. But it's fun to speculate.

The bolded part I think is the most important thing here. Mayweather is so good because, above all else, he may be the smartest boxer out there. He doesn't try to outpunch guys who are better punchers, he'll outbox someone and win on the cards when he has to ... the guy is so successful because he knows his opponents so well and doesn't put himself in a position to lose. To me this all looks like an effort to either A) avoid fighting his greatest challenge yet and keep the all important 0 you mentioned, or B) get the fight, but throw random blood-letting interruptions into his opponent's training regimen and get in his head by creating a huge distraction. Pretty genius, really.

[ThreeCups]

You're right about the talk coming from Pacquiao's camp about the mediator. But the point I was trying to make is that fighters move up and down weight classes all the time, Mayweather included. Just because Pacquiao was successful means he must be juicing? By these same standards ... De La Hoya's punches didn't seem to hurt Mayweather very much. It's pretty hypocritical of him to throw these allegations on Pacquiao when they could have applied to him as well.

With the exception of Cotto, Pacquiao has fought a lot of the same big guys as Mayweather: De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez. And he enjoyed the same, if not more, success against those guys as Mayweather (Mayweather beat De La Hoya on the cards, Pacquiao got a TKO in the 8th round; Mayweather got a TKO of Hatton in the 10th, Pacquiao KOed him in the 2nd). But Mayweather's notorious reluctance to fight legit challengers has been cited by many as why he never fought Cotto. Maybe it's this whole thing is sour grapes because Pacquiao made doing what Mayweather was afraid to do look easy? That's a stretch, I admit. But it's fun to speculate.

The bolded part I think is the most important thing here. Mayweather is so good because, above all else, he may be the smartest boxer out there. He doesn't try to outpunch guys who are better punchers, he'll outbox someone and win on the cards when he has to ... the guy is so successful because he knows his opponents so well and doesn't put himself in a position to lose. To me this all looks like an effort to either A) avoid fighting his greatest challenge yet and keep the all important 0 you mentioned, or B) get the fight, but throw random blood-letting interruptions into his opponent's training regimen and get in his head by creating a huge distraction. Pretty genius, really.

Fighters move up and down in weight all the time, correct. But they do not do it in the fashion that Pacquiao has. Pac fought on 3-15-08 at 130 pounds vs Marquez, then at 135 on 6-28-08 vs Diaz, and finally 142 vs De La Hoya on 12-6-08. He went up 2 weight classes in 9 months. To go from 130 to 142 in 9 months is insane. (it is nearly 11% of his body weight) 12 pounds is not alot for a heavyweight, or even a cruiserweight. But when you are a small fighter and you bulk up that quickly, it will certainly raise questions. The De La Hoya/Mayweather fight was at a catchweight only a few pounds heavier than Floyd's regular weight class. He probably walked around at about the weight for the fight, so no cutting was necessary. Floyd has never constantly weight up weight classes and demolished guys in doing so as Pac has. I really do not think Floyd requested the tests for any reason other than the fact that he did not want to risk his life and unblemished record in the ring against a man on some sort of performance enhancing drugs. Floyd is very cocky, and I am sure he believes he would beat Pac. He also is money hungry, hence the moniker "Money Mayweather". He would not walk away from a $40 million payday over something so silly as not taking a drug test. How much of a "distraction" would these drug tests be? Floyd would have to take the SAME tests. I am tired of hearing the "regimen" excuse. If both guys have to do it, it should not be a big deal. Are you going to squander $40 million over a regimen?

[DaneykoIsGod]

The jump in weight leading to the De La Hoya fight does raise some eyebrows. I can't deny that. But the De La Hoya bout isn't the one that Mayweather Sr. opened his mouth about and got this whole steroids train rolling. It's the Cotto fight. He was 142 lbs. for De La Hoya (12/6/08), 138 for Hatton (5/2/09) and back up to 144 for Cotto (11/14/09). They're making it seem like he made this jump in weight classes and then destroyed someone he had no business destroying at a weight he wasn't used to, and that simply isn't true. He had two previous fights against solid competition at a his higher weight before Cotto.

Does Manny look suspicious? Certainly. But you're painting Mayweather as a guy who's only character flaw is that he likes money. This is a guy who has been notorious for ducking tough competition. His latest "retirement" was deemed by many to be a ploy to avoid Cotto. He ducked Mosley last year. He ducked Margarito in '06. Why is it so easy to look at Pacquiao and think steroids, but it's so difficult to look at Mayweather and think he's looking for a way out? One has a track record with what he's accused of, the other doesn't.

I won't deny that Pacquiao seems suspicious in all of this. But to say that Mayweather is free from suspicion/blame just strikes me as odd.