yankeesjetsfan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 From what I saw on the video, it looked to me like Cormier had the intent to injure. I mean, he went right at him and nailed the guy in the head. That's not something that happens by accident or because he was "playing hard". That said, I'm all for letting Cormier prove that he isn't a dirty player. I think everyone deserves a fair chance. I just hope the kid apologies, if he hasn't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullsmasher Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I remember seeing him in pre-season and thinking he was pretty good. If it where up to me, which it is far from, he would never play in a devils uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I figured this thread was going to be bumped anyway in about an hour so I'd post this even though it's minor. http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/cormier_suspension_decision_due_today/ There were some who misinterpreted comments from Devils general manager Lou Lamoriello last week, claiming that Lamoriello said that Cormier should not be suspended at all and that there was nothing wrong with the hit. As I clarified last week, Lamoriello was responding to a question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 If Lou doesn't think that a player jumping off the bench and delivering a gigantic elbow to someone who ended up having a violent seizure on the ice and almost lost his life isn't extreme, then maybe he is getting a little old. There is NO REASON a player should have to suffer like that for playing hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 If Lou doesn't think that a player jumping off the bench and delivering a gigantic elbow to someone who ended up having a violent seizure on the ice and almost lost his life isn't extreme, then maybe he is getting a little old. There is NO REASON a player should have to suffer like that for playing hockey. you didn't understand what lou meant at all; perhaps if you got down from the moral high ground you might've tried to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 you didn't understand what lou meant at all; perhaps if you got down from the moral high ground you might've tried to understand. Then help me understand Tri. I read the quote a few times. Cormier's elbow was not a hockey play. And it was also not an isolated incident. He has done this a few times but on a smaller scale. There is no reason that any hockey player should have something like this happen to them (I'm referring to Tam). It's not the "moral high ground" because I know a lot of people agree with me. I think this is a very EXTREME situation that should be dealt with accordingly. I don't care that he's Devils property. I don't support that kind of crap. I understand that he's saying courts shouldn't be involved unless it's an extreme situation. Well Cormier caused a serious injury to a player and caused the player to almost lose his life. That's EXTREME. If they want to press charges, let them. Then the courts can get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantesinferno Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 There is something disturbing and fundamentally wrong with a person who would intentionally deliver a blow to the head of another player like that. Even more so when the injured player is not expecting or anticipating the hit. Let the nut-jobs all play together in their own league. I'm sure they could find 500 or so spectators to support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Holy crap I don't understand what people are not getting about this play. I swear some of you are just blind. Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQAiT35d9Y First, unlike many people are saying, the hit was NOT away from the play. Tam was carrying the puck up the ice all the way until a split second before Cormier hit him. He unloaded the puck right before the hit. Second, there is NOTHING that shows that Cormier came off the bench with the intention of elbowing Tam. He did, however, have Tam zeroed in from the moment he came off, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. He was obviously looking to make a big hit. However, as soon as Tam passed the puck, he sidestepped a little to avoid the hit. Cormier didn't want to completely whiff, so he stuck his elbow out to try to at least get a little of Tam. This is Cormier's real mistake - he tried to make any kind of contact, even if it was a dirty one, instead of just letting the play pass him by. It was a split second decision that ended up being the wrong one. You really want to say there was intent to injure there? You really want to put this kid behind bars? Give me a break. Edited January 25, 2010 by Amberite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Definitely didn't say I want the kids behind bars. But I'm saying I simply think he wanted to knock Tam on his ass. And he got a little more than he bargained for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 it is a hockey play, as amberite explains. even so, hockey obviously enjoys some extralegal status - choosing to punch a man is not a response we condone in normal society. once we allow the courts to arbitrate things that go on during a hockey game, hockey leagues may lose the ability to control their rulebooks. i'll be willing to agree that things like stick-swinging and clear assaults away from the play *perhaps* should be prosecuted, but this is nothing of the kind. had cormier hit him with his shoulder, this link would be posted on here to show how awesome cormier is, even if the guy sustained a concussion. cormier didn't, he chose a much more dangerous path, and he deserves to be punished - by his hockey league, not by the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CADevilsFan Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Per Bob mcKenzie's Twitter feed: Patrice Cormier suspended rest of regular season and playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 TSN Link Well deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Well I think this is another case of punishment to match the injury instead of punishment to match the play, but whatever. Personally I would have liked to see him get a lengthy suspension for the poor decision he made, as I don't think full season + playoffs suspension accomplishes much more than that, other than potentially setting back a player's development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsonnabend Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Well I think this is another case of punishment to match the injury instead of punishment to match the play, but whatever. Personally I would have liked to see him get a lengthy suspension for the poor decision he made, as I don't think full season + playoffs suspension accomplishes much more than that, other than potentially setting back a player's development. The severity of the injury was a direct consequence of the severity of the act. Punch a guy in the face it's assault. Punch him hard enough to kill him, it's murder. And as for Tri's comments about the league losing control of its rulebook, that's nonsense. The rulebook says what Cormier did is a violation of the rules. As NJDevs26 correctly points out, no one signs on for that kind of hit simply by stepping on the ice -- its a flagrant violation of the rules. The law allows fights, hitting, etc. in hockey based on "informed consent" and "assumption of risk", it's not "extralegal". No one consents to or assumes the risk of that kind of play. - Jeff Edited January 25, 2010 by jsonnabend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The severity of the injury was a direct consequence of the severity of the act. Punch a guy in the face it's assault. Punch him hard enough to kill him, it's murder. And as for Tri's comments about the league losing control of its rulebook, that's nonsense. The rulebook says what Cormier did is a violation of the rules. As NJDevs26 correctly points out, no one signs on for that kind of hit simply by stepping on the ice -- its a flagrant violation of the rules. The law allows fights, hitting, etc. in hockey based on "informed consent" and "assumption of risk", it's not "extralegal". No one consents to or assumes the risk of that kind of play. - Jeff So fighting isn't against the law but elbows are? They're both "against the rules" and both common enough that they carry specified penalties for a player doing them. Nobody "signs on" to be fouled but it happens all the time, it just happens in this case a player was hurt. Should Colin White be worried about the legality of his check from behind the other night since nobody signs on for that either? Erik Cole got his neck broke from a check from behind, that would be just as outside the bounds of the law as something like what Cormier did but, rightfully, there was never even a sniff that there would be legal consequences. Anyway, I think this is a punishment that was within the bounds of reason and hopefully it's something Cormier can learn from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) frankly, i'm more interested to see if lou brings him to lowell now that his junior career is finished. Edited January 25, 2010 by sundstrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 frankly, i'm more interested to see if lou brings him to lowell now that his junior career is finished. unfortunately it can't be done; rouyn-nouranda has to be out of the playoffs for cormier to come to the ahl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 unfortunately it can't be done; rouyn-nouranda has to be out of the playoffs for cormier to come to the ahl. Even when their season is done. the AHL commissioner has the right to uphold any suspension from another league. It doesn't happen often though, but it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsonnabend Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Nobody "signs on" to be fouled but it happens all the time, it just happens in this case a player was hurt. No, that's wrong. Violations of the rules, including elbows and fights, are known to be part of the game, and anyone who plays professional hockey assumes the risk of and consents to such infractions being committed against them. The difference here is the degree. Swinging a stick at someone's head is technically a slash and/or high stick. Does any hockey player consent to that? Same is true of flagrant head-hunter elbows like Cormier's. Please, "just happens in this case a player was hurt." You know, you don't have to go to law school to reason any of this out. A little bit of common sense goes a long way. - Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The severity of the injury was a direct consequence of the severity of the act. Punch a guy in the face it's assault. Punch him hard enough to kill him, it's murder. And as for Tri's comments about the league losing control of its rulebook, that's nonsense. The rulebook says what Cormier did is a violation of the rules. As NJDevs26 correctly points out, no one signs on for that kind of hit simply by stepping on the ice -- its a flagrant violation of the rules. The law allows fights, hitting, etc. in hockey based on "informed consent" and "assumption of risk", it's not "extralegal". No one consents to or assumes the risk of that kind of play. - Jeff What don't you understand about the fact that people don't always have precise control over their actions, especially at high speeds and taking into account split second movements by the other player? Cormier knew he was putting out his elbow, but so do a hundred NHL players every year who do the same thing without suspensions. Cormier had no way of knowing ahead of time that his elbow would land exactly where it did and cause such an injury. As I (and Tri) have said earlier, there is a difference between such a hit which happens in a split second at high speeds and a deliberate cross check to the head after play has stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) No, that's wrong. Violations of the rules, including elbows and fights, are known to be part of the game, and anyone who plays professional hockey assumes the risk of and consents to such infractions being committed against them. The difference here is the degree. Swinging a stick at someone's head is technically a slash and/or high stick. Does any hockey player consent to that? Same is true of flagrant head-hunter elbows like Cormier's. Please, "just happens in this case a player was hurt." You know, you don't have to go to law school to reason any of this out. A little bit of common sense goes a long way. - Jeff funny, i see absolutely no addressing of 731's salient point re: erik cole here. if you're going to argue this hit is criminal and that that one isn't, what separates the two? degree? well, where's the line? Edited January 25, 2010 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) So yes, the person who hit Erik Cole should have gone to jail, or at least been criminally charged? That was a violent check from behind that caused severe and life threatening damage to someone. Yes, a little common sense go a long way, and this would be incredibly difficult to get a conviction for in a criminal court, at least in the US, I don't know about Canada. Edited January 25, 2010 by Devils731 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I don't think I've ever seen Cole's hit. Hell, in the Devs Rag$ game a couple of weeks back when the Devs were on their 5 v 3, Parise got friggin' nailed into the boards 5 times worse the the White hit, IMO, and nothing was called.....I thought for a split second he could have been killed. I think Tam should civilly sue Cormier. He has a good case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/lamoriello_devils_will_not_explore_other_avenues_for_cormiers_return_this_s/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs4LIFE Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/lamoriello_devils_will_not_explore_other_avenues_for_cormiers_return_this_s/ So is that Lou unofficially officially saying that Cormier will not be playing in the AHL this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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