Lateralous Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Errr, Dallas wasn't an expansion team. They were the Minnesota NorthStars and a pretty solid team/franchise. Never really understood that move myself, but in any event, def. not an expansion team.... well, not a '90s expansion team. Of course, the 'Yotes aren't an expansion team either... I worded that poorly, I meant the league's expansion Southward. I did not mean to dismiss the North Stars, Jets and Whalers. Still, the point remains the same, teams who were well managed have done pretty well in new non-traditional markets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 I don't think there's much to that. Weren't the Devils recently ranked one of the most valuable teams in the NHL? (At least I think I remember that, could just be pulling it out of my a$$.) they're in debt for more than they're worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 (edited) and on the original topic, Ice Edge has now hit the bricks. so, now the city can either give in to the demands of either potential suitor, or insure the losses of the team next season (to keep them operating in limbo), or it's goodnight Coyotes. I'm not sure how, in this current environment, a city council can have a presser to say they're covering the losses of a hockey team, which you'd have to guess would be low 8 digits, but hey, governments find innovative ways to blow money, so who knows? Edited May 11, 2010 by maxpower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyrsuck26 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 and on the original topic, Ice Edge has now hit the bricks. so, now the city can either give in to the demands of either potential suitor, or insure the losses of the team next season (to keep them operating in limbo), or it's goodnight Coyotes. I'm not sure how, in this current environment, a city council can have a presser to say they're covering the losses of a hockey team, which you'd have to guess would be low 8 digits, but hey, governments find innovative ways to blow money, so who knows? I was just reading this on TSN. It certainly seems like the city isn't willing to pay for the losses (can't blame them, it's political suicide if they do, especially in this economic environment). It's unfortunate for 'Yote fans as the team now seems to be slowly crawling away toward Winnipeg (allegedly). Especially after the first real chance they had to support a strong team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INLOUWETRUST Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Hamilton metro population-692,000 give or take a few hundred. Phoenix metro population-4,281,000 give or take a few hundred. The claim that Hamilton has a bigger population and more corporate support than Phoenix is flat out wrong. BTW because Phoenix has a much larger population, the corporate support in Phoenix dwarfs Hamilton. Population means nothing when talking about hockey fans.... Phoenix metro pop- 4,281,000 Phoenix metro hockey fans 8,000 Hamilton metro pop- 692,000 Hamilton metro hockey fans 692,000 Hockey in Canada is a completely different animal.. The first ten pages of the sports section is hockey. The first 15 minutes of sports centre is hockey.. The only reason hockey is still in Phoenix is that Gary Bettman's expansion ponzi scheme hasn't crumbled yet . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 (edited) Population means nothing when talking about hockey fans.... Phoenix metro pop- 4,281,000 Phoenix metro hockey fans 8,000 Hamilton metro pop- 692,000 Hamilton metro hockey fans 692,000 Hockey in Canada is a completely different animal.. The first ten pages of the sports section is hockey. The first 15 minutes of sports centre is hockey.. The only reason hockey is still in Phoenix is that Gary Bettman's expansion ponzi scheme hasn't crumbled yet . and the reason the Coyotes are in Phoneix in the moment, is that no matter what market retention might be, some markets are just too small. they'll put asses in the seats this time, barring people are willing to pay the money. and it'll be significant because they will have a much smaller building than the other Canadian teams. but, the second level, the corporate and local support + TV money and other associated revenue. they probably won't hit the sweet spot and if there's another currency swing, the team will fail again. Hamilton is a different situation than Winnipeg, Hamilton is just one piece of a rather large blob of a market. Winnipeg is Winnipeg... and Winnipeg. Edited May 11, 2010 by maxpower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oconnellrules Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 they're going to move somewhere because i demand to see their papers! we cant be sure if they're US citizens! Love, Arizona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils1985 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Now that they’re getting good, they should move to Quebec and give those fans the Cup they saw go to Colorado. On a serious note it really does suck that just as the team finally gets good and people come out, they might well be gone. The whole situation has a very minor-league vibe about it in more ways than one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 A good read written by Dan Wetzel and plugged by Wysh: Winnipeg could get revenge on Bettman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils1985 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Wow, so this could actually happen, fascinating that they have a contingency schedule already made up to include the Jets. I feel bad for the folks who really bought into the Coyotes if they leave, which is looking pretty likely. They’ve been living with this the last several seasons. OTOH it’ll be cool to see the Jets back, especially when they have a good team coming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Wow, so this could actually happen, fascinating that they have a contingency schedule already made up to include the Jets. I feel bad for the folks who really bought into the Coyotes if they leave, which is looking pretty likely. They’ve been living with this the last several seasons. OTOH it’ll be cool to see the Jets back, especially when they have a good team coming in. Well, the Coyotes attendance was pathetic this season. But, it's sad to see a team up and move when the fans are just starting to show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 A good read written by Dan Wetzel and plugged by Wysh: Winnipeg could get revenge on Bettman That article is total schlock. He rambles on about how Phoenix and the evil Bettman failed... but fails to mention how Winnipeg failed. As if this huge legion of fans turning out revenue like gangbusters had their back turned on them. "It wasn’t a lack of devotion from Winnipeg fans that turned the Jets into the Coyotes. It was the spreadsheet projections of the not-as-smart-as-they-thought sports marketers. They counted on the strength of the U.S. dollar, the profits of possible luxury-box sales and the potential of a massive American national television contract." It goes on and on like that. How about the lack of any and all corporate support, any and all secondary revenue, and the writer should check the teams' attendance figures, because they weren't exactly filling the building every night. Now, of course, this was before the act of giving out freebies was common, but give me a break. They did have a helluva bake sale to try and keep the team, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils1985 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 They definitely had/have a limited fanbase but the ones that have been around are those I feel for. Since starting the follow the minors several years ago I’ve learned this is an annual occurance and many folks end the season with ‘gee, hope we’re here next year’. Even with the Devils saying ‘we signed a 10 year lease’ I only breathe easier when we get the STH renewals (which thankfully this year came before the season ended). But it’s often a year to year thing and I’m under no illusions. Phoenix used to have a minor league team and they’re gone too; maybe they’ll get another one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDevil30 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Well, the Coyotes attendance was pathetic this season. But, it's sad to see a team up and move when the fans are just starting to show. Attendance was "pathetic" because they lost almost 3k season ticket holders who weren't sure if the team was going to be in Glendale for the entire season. In August, the Coyotes couldn't even guarantee a refund. Their attendance steadily improved all year and they sold out their last 8 games at Jobing.com Arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masked Fan Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 I'd be cool with Winnipeg. GIVE DPH HER TEAM BACK!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rock 07 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) Looks like they're staying!!! Glendale OK's: Arizona Repiblic Edited May 12, 2010 by The Rock 07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyrsuck26 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Looks like they're staying!!! Glendale OK's: Arizona Repiblic At least for this season it seems. I'm kind of surprised they did this, because they are basically counting on getting a deal done before the season starts so they don't have to actually pay the money. They all know that they are done if they actually do have to pay the money, because no taxpayer, Coyote fan or not, will like having to pay for a lame duck franchise, especially if they still end up moving the next season. This is definitely a big risk, but it does give Arizona one more to support hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) Reading the comments on the tsn article is pretty amusing, they all believe the jets are coming back and that they deserve to come back. I still don't see this team moving back to Winnipeg, that city is awful. I'm not sure where this team is going to go but I don't believe it will end up in Canada. Someone in here mentioned Oklahoma City, they are getting an AHL team for next season, if they end up drawing well it wouldn't shock me to see the yotes end up there, especially with the success of the NBA team there. Edited May 12, 2010 by Satans Hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I'd be cool with Winnipeg. GIVE DPH HER TEAM BACK!! Nah, she's a die hard Canucks fan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils1985 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I’m shocked they approved this, really shocked. Heads can easily roll over this one. And the Yotes could just leave after next year anyway. Wow. Imagine if they were just a one season wonder and stink it up next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Dose Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I’m shocked they approved this, really shocked. Heads can easily roll over this one. And the Yotes could just leave after next year anyway. Wow. Imagine if they were just a one season wonder and stink it up next year? I guess the locals might as well go to the games now. For every dollar they don't spend on tickets/concessions/merchandise another dollar of their tax money will be given to the team for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyrsuck26 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Not on the subject of the Coyotes, but on the subject of more teams in Canada: Quebecor Boss wants team in Quebec next While Manitoba awaits word on the return of NHL hockey, the would-be owner of a team in Quebec described plans to bring a second franchise back to Canada...Quebecor (TSE:QBR.B) boss Pierre Karl Peladeau says he expects other U.S. franchises to suffer the same problems as Phoenix. When that happens, he says, there is a strong market waiting up north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Not on the subject of the Coyotes, but on the subject of more teams in Canada: Quebecor Boss wants team in Quebec next i'd like to see the Hartford Whalers again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I guess the locals might as well go to the games now. For every dollar they don't spend on tickets/concessions/merchandise another dollar of their tax money will be given to the team for nothing. It's not tax money. They set up a CFD (Community Facilities District or something like that)around the arena which will collect money from surcharges on tickets, food and dining in Westgate and parking to pay for the possible losses that they may incur. In theory, local residents who are not Coyotes fans and don't go to Westgate won't have to pay a dime. Who knows though, the community leaders in Glendale seem pretty incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils1985 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 And if they can't collect enough money through those taxes (er, surcharges), then what? Government is usually shortsighted but wow.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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