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overtime98

Devils' Kovalchuk will test market

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No he is not a free agent right now. Right now he is a New Jersey Devil.................... July 1st he is a free agent.

Excuse me. Let me rephrase: In other words Kovalchuk is going to be a free agent on July 1st. I'm lost as to what has been added to the Kovy conversation here.

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Oh jeez, schmantics semantics he is a free agent for all purposes.

PK - I'm not sure what legitimately tested the market means. People are free agents, if they stay before July 1st, they stay. That means they resigned and didn't leave. Who cares when that happens. Marty always stayed, and he took a lot of heat for it from the NHLPA.

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Now the world knows something about Kovulchuk's character -- he'll bust his ass to fit in and win that Cup. He's not a Mogilny quitter - that's important to know. BUT he's not a kool aid drinker either. There's no way he can justify staying on this sinking ship. I don't think I would. I honestly wouldn't bet the farm on this team getting another Cup in the next five years. Best see what's out there - talk to who's out there.

Great point here........ Kovalchuk wants to win a cup. Why would he stay on a team that cant hold onto coach for longer than 2 years? Why would he stay on a team that has so many question marks on defense with a aging goaltender that hasnt win a playoff series in 3 years............ Wouldnt you want to go to a team with a young goaltender on a up and coming young good competitive team for a chance to win the cup?

if I were Kovalchuk I wouldnt want to stay on this sinking ship either..... Seriously who says we are such a great threat to win the cup anyway? Not any more than the Rangers were.... We had only 1 more playoff win than the rangers last season.

Excuse me. Let me rephrase: In other words Kovalchuk is going to be a free agent on July 1st. I'm lost as to what has been added to the Kovy conversation here.

perfect.

Thanks.

lol

Edited by overtime98

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Great point here........ Kovalchuk wants to win a cup. Why would he stay on a team that cant hold onto coach for longer than 2 years? Why would he stay on a team that has so many question marks on defense with a aging goaltender that hasnt win a playoff series in 3 years............ Wouldnt you want to go to a team with a young goaltender on a up and coming young good competitive team for a chance to win the cup?

if I were Kovalchuk I wouldnt want to stay on this sinking ship either..... Seriously who says we are such a great threat to win the cup anyway? Not any more than the Rangers were.... We had only 1 more playoff win than the rangers last season.

perfect.

Thanks.

lol

Kovy may look at our team's playoff success...sure. Coaches? I don't think the players are looking at that so much. Bylsma was hired mid season, so was Laviolette. Young good competitive team is a better argument. THe question is, how many of those teams are really out there that will pay Kovy?

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Great point here........ Kovalchuk wants to win a cup. Why would he stay on a team that cant hold onto coach for longer than 2 years? Why would he stay on a team that has so many question marks on defense with a aging goaltender that hasnt win a playoff series in 3 years............ Wouldnt you want to go to a team with a young goaltender on a up and coming young good competitive team for a chance to win the cup?

if I were Kovalchuk I wouldnt want to stay on this sinking ship either..... Seriously who says we are such a great threat to win the cup anyway? Not any more than the Rangers were.... We had only 1 more playoff win than the rangers last season.

lol better watch out there overtime, you might be stirring up a hornet's nest given the way the people on this board react to any sort of criticism of the team or Brodeur in any way.

lol and it looks like the excuses are already rolling in.

Edited by DevsMan84

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He can look at Marty and think he is old, but I don't think Kovy is looking at Marty and saying "if he was only better..."

Young and upcoming teams usually have the cornerstone forwards in place already. St. Louis might be able to use Kovy, but a team like L.A. kind of already has a good forward crops and may not have the long term money to keep Kovy around.

The teams that can afford guys like this, usually aren't that good or have a desperate need for first line O-talent. LIKE US!

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He can look at Marty and think he is old, but I don't think Kovy is looking at Marty and saying "if he was only better..."

Young and upcoming teams usually have the cornerstone forwards in place already. St. Louis might be able to use Kovy, but a team like L.A. kind of already has a good forward crops and may not have the long term money to keep Kovy around.

The teams that can afford guys like this, usually aren't that good or have a desperate need for first line O-talent. LIKE US!

Problem is, we really cannot afford Kovy because next year Parise is going to be a free agent. Although he is a restricted free agent, this could cause problems for us. Worst case senario is that this goes to arbitration and we lose him the following year to UFA. Then, once he leaves we will say we didn't need him and that Kovy and Martin is the new face of the team.

I shutter to think of the Devils with Kovy and Martin as the cornerstones.

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Now the world knows something about Kovulchuk's character -- he'll bust his ass to fit in and win that Cup. He's not a Mogilny quitter - that's important to know. BUT he's not a kool aid drinker either. There's no way he can justify staying on this sinking ship. I don't think I would. I honestly wouldn't bet the farm on this team getting another Cup in the next five years. Best see what's out there - talk to who's out there. EDIT: So if we're doing the odds thing, I'd say 20-80 he'll stay. It's a nice place to be - it's middle of the road.

If he's so great and will bust his ass to fit in, then he should make a difference. He didn't make a difference. And I don't want to see him get a boatload of money with the hopes that he will be a player that will be worth it.

This is a sinking ship? Then he should lift all boats for the $8 million he's going to get. To me, this gets to the heart of it. He can't lift alll boats. He doesn't make players around him better, not from what I've seen in the eight years he's been in the league.

The only thing I agree with you about ... 80-20 that he leaves.

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Problem is, we really cannot afford Kovy because next year Parise is going to be a free agent. Although he is a restricted free agent, this could cause problems for us. Worst case senario is that this goes to arbitration and we lose him the following year to UFA. Then, once he leaves we will say we didn't need him and that Kovy and Martin is the new face of the team.

I shutter to think of the Devils with Kovy and Martin as the cornerstones.

That's not true. There's plenty of scenarios where the Devils can afford both. They've been gone over a hundred times in other threads.

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Oh jeez, schmantics semantics he is a free agent for all purposes.

PK - I'm not sure what legitimately tested the market means. People are free agents, if they stay before July 1st, they stay. That means they resigned and didn't leave. Who cares when that happens. Marty always stayed, and he took a lot of heat for it from the NHLPA.

Legitimately means you honestly want to see your value. You want to get a sense of how you are truly seen, not looking for an ego stroking. you see if Lou really is a sh!tter who is out to dick everyone over. You see if Lou allowing you to test the market means he's lowballing you and doesn't really value your contribution. Does that make more sense?

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That's not true. There's plenty of scenarios where the Devils can afford both. They've been gone over a hundred times in other threads.

And a lot of those senarios that have been played out in those threads depends on both Parise and Kovy being swell guys and taking less money than what they are worth and not listen to their agents who are showing them offers for more money.

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Kovy may look at our team's playoff success...sure. Coaches? I don't think the players are looking at that so much. Bylsma was hired mid season, so was Laviolette. Young good competitive team is a better argument. THe question is, how many of those teams are really out there that will pay Kovy?

This sounds crazy and probably wont happen because the team has no money as it is......but maybe the coyotes. Good young team that surprised alot of people in the league this season with a good season. They have a ton of cap room (just no money, but the NHL has been lending them money)) to sign Kovy. and what a player to add to draw fans and help that franchise. He would also make that team alot better. They already ahvea decent goaltender and a good defense.

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Great point here........ Kovalchuk wants to win a cup. Why would he stay on a team that cant hold onto coach for longer than 2 years? Why would he stay on a team that has so many question marks on defense with a aging goaltender that hasnt win a playoff series in 3 years............ Wouldnt you want to go to a team with a young goaltender on a up and coming young good competitive team for a chance to win the cup?

Sure, you can spin by only pointing out the negatives, like the fact that Brodeur is old and not pointing out that he had another Vezina caliber season. The point is, that being on the Devils means a guaranteed shot at the playoffs every year. I don't see the sinking ship that you see. No one on this Devils team aside from a few players has won anyhting in the NHL and are still up an coming. I wouldn't mind playing with a goaltender with 3 cups instead of a young goaltender. I also wouldn't mind playing for a team with a great GM like Lou, who is a proven winner. So we haven't had success in the playoffs in the last few years. That means that we're not a good team to sign with? The point here is that the Devils are one of the best teams in modern NHL history.

Let's also not forget that we are one of probably the NHL's five best franchises of the last 30 years. Playing for the Devils means high expecttions and an epxected high standard of play. This is proven when fans on these boards are unhappy with a season in which the Devils win the division, win the Jennings trophy, place second in the east and lose to the eventual Eastern Conf. Champions in the playoffs.

Because you are so used to winning as a Devils fan, you only see bad things when you look at this team. But remember, Kovy doesn't have the same perspective coming from Atlanta where they have never won anything, never had a consistent goaltender, coach or supporting cast.

I think Kovy sees a chance at having a lot of success in NJ. He likes Brodeur, likes Elias, and likes Lou. And he probably looks at the Devils team as a great franchise. Let's remember the many teams in the league have one Cups one year and didn't make the playoffs the next. The Devils at the very least, always make the playoffs and that's a nice guarantee for a player like Kovy who has seen no success.

Kovalchuk also probably is looking at the Franchise's short-term history if making a decision based on winning a Cup. He knows the Devils have three cups as he repeatedly mentioned when he was first traded here and with a little research would come up with this: Here are the number of Stanley Cup wins by team since 1980 when 16 teams first qualified for the playoffs and when there was at least 20 teams in the NHL for the first time:

Oilers: 5

Islanders: 4

Red Wings: 4

Devils: 3

Pens: 3

Canadiens: 2

Avalanche: 2

Flames: 1

Rangers: 1

Stars: 1

TB (Exp.'92-'93): 1

Car: 1

Ana (Exp.'93-'94): 1

Considering that the Oilers and Islanders have dropped of the Radar, the Devils and Red Wings are you best bet just based on consistency. The Pens are a good choice as they are a juggernaut now, but how many consective years have they been good? No so many yet.

Sure, I get that you're down on the Devils because they lost early on in the playoffs again, but to call them a sinking ship is just a plain overreaction. I don't think that's how Kovy sees us.

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If he's so great and will bust his ass to fit in, then he should make a difference. He didn't make a difference. And I don't want to see him get a boatload of money with the hopes that he will be a player that will be worth it.

This is a sinking ship? Then he should lift all boats for the $8 million he's going to get. To me, this gets to the heart of it. He can't lift alll boats. He doesn't make players around him better, not from what I've seen in the eight years he's been in the league.

The only thing I agree with you about ... 80-20 that he leaves.

That's weird because I agree with everything you wrote. :evil:

I guess it was easy to infer I want him to stay since I had nothing bad to say about him. If he stayed I'd want him to stay at 6 million. I don't see that that's doable for him. Mainly what I was getting at was ANY GM can see his good points - he sent a really good message to the league.

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And a lot of those senarios that have been played out in those threads depends on both Parise and Kovy being swell guys and taking less money than what they are worth and not listen to their agents who are showing them offers for more money.

That's not true either. In other threads there's plenty of numbers being thrown around that are pretty much right at value, given today's cap and what other contracts are looking like.

Really can't see the NHL Owners letting Phoenix get Kovy, besides why would he want to go to a team that has no idea where it'll even play in years (presumably 2 through 8 of the contract).

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and what a player to add to draw fans and help that franchise. He would also make that team alot better.

Come on, you don't really believe that, do you? There isn't a player you could add to that team to bring in more fans. It's certainly not Kovalchuk, a Russian-speaking player who is about as boring as white bread off the ice.

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Sure, you can spin by only pointing out the negatives, like the fact that Brodeur is old and not pointing out that he had another Vezina caliber season. The point is, that being on the Devils means a guaranteed shot at the playoffs every year. I don't see the sinking ship that you see. No one on this Devils team aside from a few players has won anyhting in the NHL and are still up an coming. I wouldn't mind playing with a goaltender with 3 cups instead of a young goaltender. I also wouldn't mind playing for a team with a great GM like Lou, who is a proven winner. So we haven't had success in the playoffs in the last few years. That means that we're not a good team to sign with? The point here is that the Devils are one of the best teams in modern NHL history.

Let's also not forget that we are one of probably the NHL's five best franchises of the last 30 years. Playing for the Devils means high expecttions and an epxected high standard of play. This is proven when fans on these boards are unhappy with a season in which the Devils win the division, win the Jennings trophy, place second in the east and lose to the eventual Eastern Conf. Champions in the playoffs.

Because you are so used to winning as a Devils fan, you only see bad things when you look at this team. But remember, Kovy doesn't have the same perspective coming from Atlanta where they have never won anything, never had a consistent goaltender, coach or supporting cast.

I think Kovy sees a chance at having a lot of success in NJ. He likes Brodeur, likes Elias, and likes Lou. And he probably looks at the Devils team as a great franchise. Let's remember the many teams in the league have one Cups one year and didn't make the playoffs the next. The Devils at the very least, always make the playoffs and that's a nice guarantee for a player like Kovy who has seen no success.

Kovalchuk also probably is looking at the Franchise's short-term history if making a decision based on winning a Cup. He knows the Devils have three cups as he repeatedly mentioned when he was first traded here and with a little research would come up with this: Here are the number of Stanley Cup wins by team since 1980 when 16 teams first qualified for the playoffs and when there was at least 20 teams in the NHL for the first time:

Oilers: 5

Islanders: 4

Red Wings: 4

Devils: 3

Pens: 3

Canadiens: 2

Avalanche: 2

Flames: 1

Rangers: 1

Stars: 1

TB (Exp.'92-'93): 1

Car: 1

Ana (Exp.'93-'94): 1

Considering that the Oilers and Islanders have dropped of the Radar, the Devils and Red Wings are you best bet just based on consistency. The Pens are a good choice as they are a juggernaut now, but how many consective years have they been good? No so many yet.

Sure, I get that you're down on the Devils because they lost early on in the playoffs again, but to call them a sinking ship is just a plain overreaction. I don't think that's how Kovy sees us.

This is all fine and dandy but the fact is most players do not look at what the team did 15 years ago, but what they did in the last 1-5 years. The Devils unfortunately are not that high on the list and honestly are in the middle of the pack. They are great during the regular season but lately have been going home for the summer early. If this team was such a stanley cup contender, then how come they havent been contending for the cup in the past 5 years?

Also, Brodeur is getting old and I would have to argue that he did not have a Vezina-caliber season. Yes he got the wins, but that is more a team stat than an individual stat. Last year with Clemmer proved that to be correct. However, this is another topic so I will give it a rest here.

We honestly do not have any idea what he thinks of the franchise, but honestly there are more negative points about the Devils than there were 10 years ago, and even then it was hard to attract free agents to the Devils. Most players have agents, who are only looking for the biggest contract so that they can get their commission. NJ cannot depend on good faith from their players to take less money so that others can come to NJ to make more.

That's not true either. In other threads there's plenty of numbers being thrown around that are pretty much right at value, given today's cap and what other contracts are looking like.

Really can't see the NHL Owners letting Phoenix get Kovy, besides why would he want to go to a team that has no idea where it'll even play in years (presumably 2 through 8 of the contract).

Thing is though, a lot of those numbers are unrealistic. Everyone here on a talent level compares him to being in the same league as Ovechkin, as well as a lot of scouts. However, the numbers I see are far below that. This would mean a lot of other players will have to make sacrifices or be a good guy and take less money or we would have to give up other essential pieces.

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Sure, I get that you're down on the Devils because they lost early on in the playoffs again, but to call them a sinking ship is just a plain overreaction. I don't think that's how Kovy sees us.

I am not down on the Devils and I only carried the sinking ship comment because someone else brought it up.

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I am not down on the Devils and I only carried the sinking ship comment because someone else brought it up.

I get that you carried over the phrase from another post but the fact is that you said:

if I were Kovalchuk I wouldnt want to stay on this sinking ship either.....

So you call the team a sinking ship and yet you're not down on the team?

Edited by ben00rs

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did someone drag in a fire and ice commenter or something?

Nah, we are just trying to be realistic about this team and not always be sipping Lou's or the Devils Kool-aid. If you or anyone else always want to cheerlead for the Devils, then join the Devils Dancers.

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Haha so if they "drink kool-aid" - they don't count as SUPER TALENTED players who could've gotten WAY MORE money from other teams.

Really, we are in denial? - I didn't want Gionta, Rafalski or Madden at the time and I still don't. Go back and look.

I'm not going to get into it - but please tell me keep any of those 3 at the money they got would've been a good idea considering the guys we have/had coming up, and for the role they would've played for ENTIRE duration of that contract.

I'll only comment on Madden - because I said this last week. He would've been a fvcking baby playing 11 minutes on the fourth line here in NJ with Leblond and Pikkaraennan.

There is a BIG difference. Your original comment was "yeah every devil that tests free agent market is gone" and then you bring up guys like Brodeur and Stevens who "never tested the free agent market" You say they could have gotten more elsewhere, and that may be true, but were they ever actually given offers by other teams in free agency????? NO so we will never know if some team had offered Marty 8 or 9 mil a year if he would have stayed.

The fact is when players (ones who have VALUE) have tested the free agent market as a devil they have usually (many more than not) ended up GONE

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So you call the team a sinking ship and yet you're not down on the team?

I guess I got caught up in that side of the argument .......

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That's weird because I agree with everything you wrote. :evil:

I guess it was easy to infer I want him to stay since I had nothing bad to say about him. If he stayed I'd want him to stay at 6 million. I don't see that that's doable for him. Mainly what I was getting at was ANY GM can see his good points - he sent a really good message to the league.

I'm going off the rails a little bit with this rant, but here goes. There were too many times that I hated watching this team this year, and I haven't felt like that too often in the years I've been watching this team.

Watching our players awkwardly try to incorporate Kovalchuk into the offense was painful (sometimes by making telegraphed passes and looking for him instead of playing the god-damned game like you're supposed to), and watching Kovalchuk handle the puck like a grenade at the blue line at the end of a two-minute shift on the PP were two reasons why.

Having to watch a key player like Rolston mail it in almost every night didn't help either. Langenbrunner copied him in the last month of the season and playoffs. And the constant line juggling. And our no-energy, invisible third line.

Thank goodness for Parise, one of the few players who was fun to watch. I give props to Andy Greene, too, who had a very good season.

This team needs an injection of life, and Kovalchuk ain't bringing it IMO. It's going to come from a good coach (preferably a young coach in his 40s or early 50s) and young players. I'd rather see a scrappy bunch that finishes eighth than the vanilla paper tiger that finished second. We need a makeover, and I want Parise to be the man leading the charge and setting the example for the young'uns, not Kovalchuk.

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