line-up

[Jdub]

Hello All,

I have bin away for a while so i am just trying to see what the devils lineup looks like next season if kovalchuk doesnt comeback and martin doesnt re-sign..

I think so far I have...

Parise/Zajac/Langs

Elias/ /Clarkson

Rolston/Zubrus/Zharkov

PL3/Pelley/Davis

Fraser/Greene

White/ Corrente

Salvador/ Eckford

There are definately some holes that need to be filled. Out of the AHL/Prospects Possible players that could make it are

Palmieri/Halischuk/Vasyunov/Henrique/Josefson/Tedenby

So i'm just really curious.

Thanks

[GA Devil]

Well, there's the rub. At this point we have no real idea as to which young players are going to make the club (we can only make educated guesses). In your listing you totally bypassed players like Urbom, Kelley, MacIntyre and Taormina. I'm thinking Lou will sign some near-waiver wire fodder as insurance in case not enough of the young 'uns are ready for prime time coming out of training camp. After all, the quantity doesn't necessarily imply quality. There might even be a situation where a player might make the right impression but get sent down to Albany anyway, just to prove he can perform up to that level night after night. I see training camp as a big crap shoot right now.

Edited June 18, 2010 by GA Devil

[GA Devil]

For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,

When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,

Must give us pause.

Not the quite the response I was looking for, but.....

[MantaRay]

If Martin doesn't sign, we are screwed.

[DaneykoIsGod]

Seeing Mark Fraser on the first pairing just made me long to be an Islanders fan. Need some fresh air ...

[Neb00rs]

If Martin doesn't sign, we are screwed.

How are we screwed? Compare record with Martin vs. record without Martin this past season.

[MantaRay]

How are we screwed? Compare record with Martin vs. record without Martin this past season.

This past season was an aberration. Not sure who those individuals were in the NJ Dev's uniforms in 2010 but this was not a NJ Devils TEAM.

Johnny Mac will get them back to Devils hockey (last seen Oct/Nov 2009).

[Neb00rs]

This past season was an aberration. Not sure who those individuals were in the NJ Dev's uniforms in 2010 but this was not a NJ Devils TEAM.

Johnny Mac will get them back to Devils hockey (last seen Oct/Nov 2009).

Point is: He's clearly not a game changer...signing him is nice sure, but how does not having him screw us over if his effect on the team is not winning? Then again (and I don't mean to be sarvastic here), I'm guessing you're blaming Lemaire for this "aberration season"?

[sundstrom]

Point is: He's clearly not a game changer...signing him is nice sure, but how does not having him screw us over if his effect on the team is not winning? Then again (and I don't mean to be sarvastic here), I'm guessing you're blaming Lemaire for this "aberration season"?

"game changer" - this is an interesting adjective. if someone like ovechkin, or kovalchuk or pronger is what you'd refer to as a game changer, then yes, you're correct.

but if you want to use it to mean someone that has great influence on the outcome of a game, then Paul Martin absolutely fits that bill. If you want to use stats like Triumph does, there's so many that back up that the team simply plays better on both sides of the puck when he's on the ice. If you want to use your eyes like Daniel, you'll see the same thing.

From a defenseman's standpoint, you just can't look at stats - even if that's something that you're counting on from a player (like the devils would ideally do from Paul Martin). But the fact remains, the Devils haven't had a defenseman racking up points since Rafalski left because that's just not how they've played for the last 4-5 years. The forwards do most of the work on cycles while the defenseman haven't been asked to "activate" (my favorite word from this post season) in the offensive zone AT ALL.

if Martin does not re-sign and the even if the Devils sign Hamhuis, or Corvo, or someone else of that ilk, what you will see will be a TERRIBLE offensive team because they'll be stuck with a defense where white, salvador and mottau are on the ice for 2/3 of the game and that just can't happen because they have no ability to move the puck and handle an NHL forecheck.

i would argue that Paul Martin is the most important Free Agent on the market - more important than Marleau. More important than Kovalchuk.

[GoArmySports]

Is Josefon a lock to make the team?

[Sarge18]

Is Josefon a lock to make the team?

Not at all, he is still only 19. Lots of room for him to still grow and it will be interesting to see where he is come training camp.

[Sarge18]

"game changer" - this is an interesting adjective. if someone like ovechkin, or kovalchuk or pronger is what you'd refer to as a game changer, then yes, you're correct.

but if you want to use it to mean someone that has great influence on the outcome of a game, then Paul Martin absolutely fits that bill. If you want to use stats like Triumph does, there's so many that back up that the team simply plays better on both sides of the puck when he's on the ice. If you want to use your eyes like Daniel, you'll see the same thing.

From a defenseman's standpoint, you just can't look at stats - even if that's something that you're counting on from a player (like the devils would ideally do from Paul Martin). But the fact remains, the Devils haven't had a defenseman racking up points since Rafalski left because that's just not how they've played for the last 4-5 years. The forwards do most of the work on cycles while the defenseman haven't been asked to "activate" (my favorite word from this post season) in the offensive zone AT ALL.

if Martin does not re-sign and the even if the Devils sign Hamhuis, or Corvo, or someone else of that ilk, what you will see will be a TERRIBLE offensive team because they'll be stuck with a defense where white, salvador and mottau are on the ice for 2/3 of the game and that just can't happen because they have no ability to move the puck and handle an NHL forecheck.

i would argue that Paul Martin is the most important Free Agent on the market - more important than Marleau. More important than Kovalchuk.

The big counter point to the teams record sans Martin this year is the record without him in previous years. It is abyssal. Some food for thought, since Rafalski has left Martin has averaged about 3 minutes more a game in icetime than anyone else on the team. It has cost him about 9 games a year in injury time, but otherwise he doesn't show many signs of slowing down on the ice. Jacques had to over use Greene and Mottau to take that icetime, and it killed both of them. By the olympic break both guys were just out of gas. There just arent the guys on this roster that proven they can take big icetime all season long. Of the UFA's out there only Neidermayer and Gonchar got more icetime than Martin averages in a healthy season.

Offensively Martin is an enigma to me. He doesnt have a good shot, but has the skating and stick handling skills to be a great transition defenseman. We see it almost every time he is on during a 4 on 4 situation where he takes full advantage of that extra room. Yet he largely does not take those chances at 5 on 5 except for the rare occasion. It could be that the coaching staff has asked him not to, and given who his defensive partners have been since Scott Neidermayer id say its justifiable. Or is it that he just does not have the vision to carry the puck through the neutral zone in a congested 5 on 5 situation? The skills are there to take his offensive game to a new level, but I dont think his head is there for it. He doesnt think offensively enough, or take enough chances.

The criticism that is often levied against Martin is his defensive zone play. Sure he isnt going to pound opposing forwards into submission, but his positioning and stick work are among the best out there. He rarely ends up on the wrong side of opposing forwards in coverage. There is not a better defender on the team at forcing turnovers along the boards. Really Martin and to a much lesser extent Greene are the only two guys on the team that do force turnovers. All the other guys just get beat, and end up a step behind leading to longer zone time for the opposing team than is necessary. Part of this is how Jacques had them playing, but giving the opposing team the outside, but White/Mottau/Sal just suck at taking the puck away.

While we are at it lets get into breakout passes. Martin is the only guy on the team who makes good first passes on a consistent basis. Greene has the ability but throughout his career he has been hit or miss. Lets look at the free agents who are out there. Only Gonchar provides a better ability for a team to leave its own end.

So is he a game changing defender in the definition of a huge hitter, a big shot, or end to end rushes? No. But he does all the little things in the game that keep the Devils playing more offense than defense while he is on the ice. Oh, and he almost always makes his defensive partner look great. Johnny Oduya, Bryce Salvador, and even the ever lost Martin Skoula have all looked their best while playing along side Paul Martin. He doesn't need to be replaced, he needs better 2nd pair support.

Anyway, there is not another free agent that combines Martin's ability in his own end with his transition skills that can be signed long term. This team does not need another defensive d, especially one whose forte is shot blocking like Volchenkov. They need guys who have the ability to play good d, while still being able to move the puck in order to create some semblance of a transition game. The inability to cleanly break out of the zone killed the Devils for the last 30 games and playoffs last year.

Corvo is almost done as offensive defender. His time with Washington, which should have played right to his style of play, was a disaster.

There are only two guys on the list I like. Hamhuis, who if Philly has their way is off the market before July 1st anyway. And Michalek who is really just Paul Martin light.

[Neb00rs]

But are we screwed if we don't resign Martin? Think about it. Point is, we can win without him. I'm not saying we are not better with him on the ice.

[DaneykoIsGod]

The big counter point to the teams record sans Martin this year is the record without him in previous years. It is abyssal. Some food for thought, since Rafalski has left Martin has averaged about 3 minutes more a game in icetime than anyone else on the team. It has cost him about 9 games a year in injury time, but otherwise he doesn't show many signs of slowing down on the ice. Jacques had to over use Greene and Mottau to take that icetime, and it killed both of them. By the olympic break both guys were just out of gas. There just arent the guys on this roster that proven they can take big icetime all season long. Of the UFA's out there only Neidermayer and Gonchar got more icetime than Martin averages in a healthy season.

Offensively Martin is an enigma to me. He doesnt have a good shot, but has the skating and stick handling skills to be a great transition defenseman. We see it almost every time he is on during a 4 on 4 situation where he takes full advantage of that extra room. Yet he largely does not take those chances at 5 on 5 except for the rare occasion. It could be that the coaching staff has asked him not to, and given who his defensive partners have been since Scott Neidermayer id say its justifiable. Or is it that he just does not have the vision to carry the puck through the neutral zone in a congested 5 on 5 situation? The skills are there to take his offensive game to a new level, but I dont think his head is there for it. He doesnt think offensively enough, or take enough chances.

The criticism that is often levied against Martin is his defensive zone play. Sure he isnt going to pound opposing forwards into submission, but his positioning and stick work are among the best out there. He rarely ends up on the wrong side of opposing forwards in coverage. There is not a better defender on the team at forcing turnovers along the boards. Really Martin and to a much lesser extent Greene are the only two guys on the team that do force turnovers. All the other guys just get beat, and end up a step behind leading to longer zone time for the opposing team than is necessary. Part of this is how Jacques had them playing, but giving the opposing team the outside, but White/Mottau/Sal just suck at taking the puck away.

While we are at it lets get into breakout passes. Martin is the only guy on the team who makes good first passes on a consistent basis. Greene has the ability but throughout his career he has been hit or miss. Lets look at the free agents who are out there. Only Gonchar provides a better ability for a team to leave its own end.

So is he a game changing defender in the definition of a huge hitter, a big shot, or end to end rushes? No. But he does all the little things in the game that keep the Devils playing more offense than defense while he is on the ice. Oh, and he almost always makes his defensive partner look great. Johnny Oduya, Bryce Salvador, and even the ever lost Martin Skoula have all looked their best while playing along side Paul Martin. He doesn't need to be replaced, he needs better 2nd pair support.

Anyway, there is not another free agent that combines Martin's ability in his own end with his transition skills that can be signed long term. This team does not need another defensive d, especially one whose forte is shot blocking like Volchenkov. They need guys who have the ability to play good d, while still being able to move the puck in order to create some semblance of a transition game. The inability to cleanly break out of the zone killed the Devils for the last 30 games and playoffs last year.

This is, without a doubt, the most spot-on assessment of Paul Martin I've ever read on this board. Everyone who posts here should be required to read it twice.

The man is tragically underappreciated.

[GA Devil]

I think realistically, all those players are 2-3 years away, at least.

I'll concede that your scenario is likely, almost a shoe-in really. However, I can still recall management's reaction to Urbom's first camp. By all accounts, he acclimated himself quite well to 'the North American game" in Brandon since that camp. I don't think it is that much of a stretch to say Urbom could be in the mix towards the end of September.

As for Kelley, I've heard excellent things about his play in his own end. Maybe he'll be an injury call up? Probably not, but I wouldn't totally rule it out.

I got to see MacIntyre for all of 2 shifts in a game aired on TV. Now, I'm not going to say that Mac is the next anything based on those 2 shifts, but I was very impressed by how he played the game. Let's put it this way, if MacIntyre can be nearly that effective at the NHL level (a very big if at this point), I can see him very quickly becoming a fan favorite. Like I said, it was only 2 shifts. Hell MacPherson impressed the hell out of me with the limited time I saw him. Physical in his own end, positioned well, and sharp tape-to-tape passes.

Yes, I'm being overly optimistic with these guys. The likelyhood of these guys being anything other than AHL fodder is much greater than them being anything in the NHL. But my point is, these guys just might have it in them to surprise.

[CMONPETEYD]

Why do people like Rod friggin Pelley so much

[CRASHER]

Why do people like Rod friggin Pelley so much

(someone needs to update their name )

He's cheap, he plays hard.... he was good for one big hit a game... and I think we all took too PIST PELLEY POWER!!!! He showed some improvement last year and in a salary cap universe, you're gonna need 1-2 "filler" type players on your team, and he's really that

[MantaRay]

"game changer" - this is an interesting adjective. if someone like ovechkin, or kovalchuk or pronger is what you'd refer to as a game changer, then yes, you're correct.

but if you want to use it to mean someone that has great influence on the outcome of a game, then Paul Martin absolutely fits that bill. If you want to use stats like Triumph does, there's so many that back up that the team simply plays better on both sides of the puck when he's on the ice. If you want to use your eyes like Daniel, you'll see the same thing.

From a defenseman's standpoint, you just can't look at stats - even if that's something that you're counting on from a player (like the devils would ideally do from Paul Martin). But the fact remains, the Devils haven't had a defenseman racking up points since Rafalski left because that's just not how they've played for the last 4-5 years. The forwards do most of the work on cycles while the defenseman haven't been asked to "activate" (my favorite word from this post season) in the offensive zone AT ALL.

if Martin does not re-sign and the even if the Devils sign Hamhuis, or Corvo, or someone else of that ilk, what you will see will be a TERRIBLE offensive team because they'll be stuck with a defense where white, salvador and mottau are on the ice for 2/3 of the game and that just can't happen because they have no ability to move the puck and handle an NHL forecheck.

i would argue that Paul Martin is the most important Free Agent on the market - more important than Marleau. More important than Kovalchuk.

Amen Sunny

[MantaRay]

The big counter point to the teams record sans Martin this year is the record without him in previous years. It is abyssal. Some food for thought, since Rafalski has left Martin has averaged about 3 minutes more a game in icetime than anyone else on the team. It has cost him about 9 games a year in injury time, but otherwise he doesn't show many signs of slowing down on the ice. Jacques had to over use Greene and Mottau to take that icetime, and it killed both of them. By the olympic break both guys were just out of gas. There just arent the guys on this roster that proven they can take big icetime all season long. Of the UFA's out there only Neidermayer and Gonchar got more icetime than Martin averages in a healthy season.

Offensively Martin is an enigma to me. He doesnt have a good shot, but has the skating and stick handling skills to be a great transition defenseman. We see it almost every time he is on during a 4 on 4 situation where he takes full advantage of that extra room. Yet he largely does not take those chances at 5 on 5 except for the rare occasion. It could be that the coaching staff has asked him not to, and given who his defensive partners have been since Scott Neidermayer id say its justifiable. Or is it that he just does not have the vision to carry the puck through the neutral zone in a congested 5 on 5 situation? The skills are there to take his offensive game to a new level, but I dont think his head is there for it. He doesnt think offensively enough, or take enough chances.

The criticism that is often levied against Martin is his defensive zone play. Sure he isnt going to pound opposing forwards into submission, but his positioning and stick work are among the best out there. He rarely ends up on the wrong side of opposing forwards in coverage. There is not a better defender on the team at forcing turnovers along the boards. Really Martin and to a much lesser extent Greene are the only two guys on the team that do force turnovers. All the other guys just get beat, and end up a step behind leading to longer zone time for the opposing team than is necessary. Part of this is how Jacques had them playing, but giving the opposing team the outside, but White/Mottau/Sal just suck at taking the puck away.

While we are at it lets get into breakout passes. Martin is the only guy on the team who makes good first passes on a consistent basis. Greene has the ability but throughout his career he has been hit or miss. Lets look at the free agents who are out there. Only Gonchar provides a better ability for a team to leave its own end.

So is he a game changing defender in the definition of a huge hitter, a big shot, or end to end rushes? No. But he does all the little things in the game that keep the Devils playing more offense than defense while he is on the ice. Oh, and he almost always makes his defensive partner look great. Johnny Oduya, Bryce Salvador, and even the ever lost Martin Skoula have all looked their best while playing along side Paul Martin. He doesn't need to be replaced, he needs better 2nd pair support.

Anyway, there is not another free agent that combines Martin's ability in his own end with his transition skills that can be signed long term. This team does not need another defensive d, especially one whose forte is shot blocking like Volchenkov. They need guys who have the ability to play good d, while still being able to move the puck in order to create some semblance of a transition game. The inability to cleanly break out of the zone killed the Devils for the last 30 games and playoffs last year.

Corvo is almost done as offensive defender. His time with Washington, which should have played right to his style of play, was a disaster.

There are only two guys on the list I like. Hamhuis, who if Philly has their way is off the market before July 1st anyway. And Michalek who is really just Paul Martin light.

Another person who understands.