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Martin will test free agent market


nyrsuck26

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Except in rare cases (like Elias and Brodeur), you're pretty much always have to overpay if you ever want to sign any free agents. That's just how it works.

So true. But there are the types of players who warrant an overpayment and those that don't. Martin is not someone who warrants a big payday from us because A. He isn't coming off a successful year B. IMO he is not a make or break player. (losing him doesn't kill our team) C. He doesn't have the offensive upside we're looking for. D. We have other uses for the money

Edited by ben00rs
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Kaberle is much better than Martin offensively, which is why i want him. This team is going in a much more offensive direction, and i think a defender like Kaberle is what this team could use. He would be our equivalent of Mike Green.

You realize that Kaberle would have to play defense in NJ right?

Martin is a great offensive player that makes smart moves and jumps into the play when the situation is called for, but he is also usually paired against the oppositions best players. You can't do that with Kaberle.

Players like Mike Green are fantastic during the regular season, but not when it counts.

Edited by MantaRay
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You realize that Kaberle would have to play defense in NJ right?

Martin is a great offensive player that makes smart moves and jumps into the play when the situation is called for, but he is also usually paired against the oppositions best players. You can't do that with Kaberle.

No doubt Kaberle would find it a lot tougher to pull off his 40 assists on the Devils.

That said, I think it's a jump to call Martin a "great" offensive player. More specifically he lacks the dangerous d-man shot that the Devils could use very badly.

Sure it's not easy to watch Sergei Gonchar try to shut down the opponents best forwards but there can be no doubt that he makes the Penguins PP extremely dangerous. He opens up the ice completely, is patient with the puck and has a wicked shot. Now that's a great offensive D-man.

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So true. But there are the types of players who warrant an overpayment and those that don't. Martin is not someone who warrants a big payday from us because A. He isn't coming off a successful year B. IMO he is not a make or break player. (losing him doesn't kill our team) C. He doesn't have the offensive upside we're looking for. D. We have other uses for the money

Respectfully disagree:

A) He was injured.

B) Losing him means White, Motteau, Salvador, Greene, Fraser and rookies. So, yes losing him kills our team as no one is as good with getting the puck out of our zone than Martin. Unless we overpay for players that aren't as good defensively (e.g Kaberle).

C) Have you watched Martin play??? He has fantastic offensive ability, but he is usually paired against Crosby, Ovechkin, etc, wear his #1 priority is defense.

D) We can't make a better investment than re-signing Martin long term if we expect to win.

No doubt Kaberle would find it a lot tougher to pull off his 40 assists on the Devils.

That said, I think it's a jump to call Martin a "great" offensive player. More specifically he lacks the dangerous d-man shot that the Devils could use very badly.

Sure it's not easy to watch Sergei Gonchar try to shut down the opponents best forwards but there can be no doubt that he makes the Penguins PP extremely dangerous. He opens up the ice completely, is patient with the puck and has a wicked shot. Now that's a great offensive D-man.

Is that why Pittsburgh isn't re-signing him?

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So true. But there are the types of players who warrant an overpayment and those that don't. Martin is not someone who warrants a big payday from us because A. He isn't coming off a successful year B. IMO he is not a make or break player. (losing him doesn't kill our team) C. He doesn't have the offensive upside we're looking for. D. We have other uses for the money

Paul Martin is two defensemen for the price of one. You could pair him with a turd stuffed in a skate and it would be an above-average pairing. Hell, that actually happened last year with Skoula.

Whatever Martin gets paid this offseason, he's worth every penny of it.

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Respectfully disagree:

A) He was injured.

B) Losing him means White, Motteau, Salvador, Greene, Fraser and rookies. So, yes losing him kills our team as no one is as good with getting the puck out of our zone than Martin. Unless we overpay for players that aren't as good defensively (e.g Kaberle).

C) Have you watched Martin play??? He has fantastic offensive ability, but he is usually paired against Crosby, Ovechkin, etc, wear his #1 priority is defense.

D) We can't make a better investment than re-signing Martin long term if we expect to win.

Is that why Pittsburgh isn't re-signing him?

A) Being injured counts as unsuccessful

B) We have already proven that we are a winning team without him (not that he doesn't make us better)

C)"Fantastic" might be going a little far. But anyways I said "he doesn't have the offensive upside THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR" (i.e. a slapper from the point)

D) My philosophy for winning in today's NHL is that you need a defensive-minded team and a couple premier offensive players. So, I see Kovy as top priority.

Paul Martin is two defensemen for the price of one. You could pair him with a turd stuffed in a skate and it would be an above-average pairing. Hell, that actually happened last year with Skoula.

Whatever Martin gets paid this offseason, he's worth every penny of it.

Again, I agree that he is worth every penny he gets paid. I just don't think he is worth that money to the Devils who could use the money elsewhere. (See D. above)

Edited by ben00rs
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B) We have already proven that we are a winning team without him (not that he doesn't make us better)

This just isn't true. Andy Greene raised his game for a month or two, but then got promptly burnt out and the team stopped winning. Greene wasn't the same again until (cue the trumpets) he was paired with Martin in the playoffs.

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Respectfully disagree:

A) He was injured.

B) Losing him means White, Motteau, Salvador, Greene, Fraser and rookies. So, yes losing him kills our team as no one is as good with getting the puck out of our zone than Martin. Unless we overpay for players that aren't as good defensively (e.g Kaberle).

C) Have you watched Martin play??? He has fantastic offensive ability, but he is usually paired against Crosby, Ovechkin, etc, wear his #1 priority is defense.

D) We can't make a better investment than re-signing Martin long term if we expect to win.

Is that why Pittsburgh isn't re-signing him?

I'm not arguing to sign Gonchar as a matter of fact I've argued against that on these boards. I was just using him as an example. Pitt isn't resigning him because he is way overpaid.

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D) My philosophy for winning in today's NHL is that you need a defensive-minded team and a couple premier offensive players. So, I see Kovy as top priority.

Again, I agree that he is worth every penny he gets paid. I just don't think he is worth that money to the Devils who could use the money elsewhere. (See D. above)

Martin is one of two defensemen on this team capable of making successful first passes out of the defensive zone on a regular basis, and he's the better of the two by miles. This is the first step to offense. Underrating this element of a team's offensive game is shortsighted.

You can have all the talented forwards in the world, but it doesn't mean a thing if the defensemen can't get them the puck.

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This just isn't true. Andy Greene raised his game for a month or two, but then got promptly burnt out and the team stopped winning. Greene wasn't the same again until (cue the trumpets) he was paired with Martin in the playoffs.

Andy Greene's play didn't drop until Paul Martin came back. I'm not saying that means something, just that Paul Martin didn't boost Greene's play - that's just not true to say that he did.

THe point is the Devils won without Martin. Martin makes the team better but we don't need him to survive. No matter what you want to say (it was an aberration, it was a fluke, etc...), the Devils won without Martin in the lineup and without the use of magic. They can do it again.

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D) My philosophy for winning in today's NHL is that you need a defensive-minded team and a couple premier offensive players. So, I see Kovy as top priority.

Again, players like Kovalchuk are great for the regular season and getting a hat trick every time you play the Islanders, Edmonton, and the Rangers, but you're not going to win the Cup with that type of player. He doesn't make the players around him better, otherwise we would have won the Cup last year.

You need quality depth starting at the Center position, strong defensive play and goaltending.

Look at the Blackhawks and Philly this year, and Pittsburgh and Detroit the years before. All strong down the middle, great defensive players, and hot goaltending.

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Andy Greene's play didn't drop until Paul Martin came back. I'm not saying that means something, just that Paul Martin didn't boost Greene's play - that's just not true to say that he did.

THe point is the Devils won without Martin. Martin makes the team better but we don't need him to survive. No matter what you want to say (it was an aberration, it was a fluke, etc...), the Devils won without Martin in the lineup and without the use of magic. They can do it again.

you can win without anyone. blaming slumps on one player being out is silly.

they did win with the use of magic when martin was out of the lineup; their power play was rated #2 in the league.

there's still not that many teams out there for martin, so i'm not overly worried when he goes looking.

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Martin is one of two defensemen on this team capable of making successful first passes out of the defensive zone on a regular basis, and he's the better of the two by miles. This is the first step to offense. Underrating this element of a team's offensive game is shortsighted.

You can have all the talented forwards in the world, but it doesn't mean a thing if the defensemen can't get them the puck.

Yes, Martin is great at getting our forwards the puck, especially when they're moving down the ice in front of him. Again, Martin is a very good player that adds a lot to our team. But we could more use a d-man with a point shot who makes the PP more dangerous.

Edited by ben00rs
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I'm not saying that he has the offensive upside that Mike Green has. no defender in the NHL does. But Kaberle is certainly a better puck moving defenseman than Martin.

No he isn't. Kaberle's claim to fame offensively is that he passed the puck to Mcabe at the point on the PP.

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Again, players like Kovalchuk are great for the regular season and getting a hat trick every time you play the Islanders, Edmonton, and the Rangers, but you're not going to win the Cup with that type of player. He doesn't make the players around him better, otherwise we would have won the Cup last year.

You need quality depth starting at the Center position, strong defensive play and goaltending.

Look at the Blackhawks and Philly this year, and Pittsburgh and Detroit the years before. All strong down the middle, great defensive players, and hot goaltending.

Agreed, you need strong D. But Kane, Hossa and Toews are all highly skilled offensive players on a very good defensive team. Chicago is the exact recipe for success that I am talking about, they just have a lot more to work with.

Edited by ben00rs
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you can win without anyone. blaming slumps on one player being out is silly.

they did win with the use of magic when martin was out of the lineup; their power play was rated #2 in the league.

there's still not that many teams out there for martin, so i'm not overly worried when he goes looking.

Agreed. The fault of a slump/hot streak can never rest on an individual player being out. The point is if it was physically possible for the Devils to win without Martin last season, then this season with the addittion of a real center, some new blood and possibly another big signing we can win again.

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Agreed, you need strong D. But Kane, Hossa and Toews are all highly skilled offensive players on a very good defensive team. Chicago is the exact recipe for success that I am talking about, they just have a lot more to work with.

No argument, but it was Chicago's quality depth that allowed Quenville to revise their lines to win the final games of the SC final.

When the pressure was on it was Byfuglin, Sharp, Bolland, Kopecky, and Versteeg who came up big.

This prototype team is also being dismantled as we speak.

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No argument, but it was Chicago's quality depth that allowed Quenville to revise their lines to win the final games of the SC final.

When the pressure was on it was Byfuglin, Sharp, Bolland, Kopecky, and Versteeg who came up big.

This prototype team is also being dismantled as we speak.

It will be interestin to see how Chicago fares without some of their big guys. The reason Kane and Toews were able to be so successful during the playoffs was that A. They're really good and B. Byfuglien was opening up the slot and the areas around the net. The defensive-minded team around the Hawks allowed Toews and Kane's offensive skills to take over the series and put up a combined 57 points during the playoffs. That's what I want to see the Devils do. Build a defensive team around Parise and one other premier offensive player so they can roam free.

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Martin said he wanted to know who the new coach would be before any action. He found out and is testing the market. If I were a defensemen and was a Devils player wanting to make as much money as I can for the next 4 or 5 years along with being very competitive in the playoffs I would look around as well considering a 1st time head coach and no changes other than adding Arnott so far and probably losing Kovy.

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TG has an article on the situation: http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/defenseman_paul_martin_expecting_to_test_free_agency/

Devils defenseman Paul Martin said this morning that he is expecting to test the unrestricted free agent market when it opens at noon on July 1, but also has not completely ruled out re-signing with the team before then. He also said that it remains a possiblity that he will re-sign with the team after July 1.

Martin said his agent Ben Hankinson is supposed to meet with Devils general manager Lou Lamoriello this weekend at the draft in Los Angeles. Martin also antipicated that he might speak with Lamoriello by phone this weekend.

“It’s just that as for right now we haven’t really talked as far as a contract, so I’ll assume I will wait and see what other teams have to offer,” Martin said by phone from Minnesota. “I don’t want people to think of this as something bad. (Other free agents) do it every year. It doesn’t mean that I want to leave New Jersey. You just want to see where the market is at.”

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THe point is the Devils won without Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk makes the team better but we don't need him to survive. No matter what you want to say (it was an aberration, it was a fluke, etc...), the Devils won without Kovalchuk in the lineup and without the use of magic. They can do it again.

Edited to reflect how this exact statement can be used to counter who you list as your top priority.

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