Why not Lee Stempniak?

[cubanjd305]

In comparing him to Rolston, I was just saying that everybody hates him even though he scores 20 goals. You'd hate this guy infinitely more. Sure he can score some goals, but can't play defense or anything else. there's a reason nobody wants to keep him around

Right.....because Rolston is such a great defensive forward. Also, they would have the same salary right?

35 goals in two seasons @ 5MM per. 34 assists! Playing most of the time in the top two lines and PP. Add to that his Dorn-esque attitude and you have more than enough reason to hate that prick. There's no comparison to this pest anywhere in the NHL

[Neb00rs]

35 goals in two seasons @ 5MM per. 34 assists! Playing most of the time in the top two lines and PP. Add to that his Dorn-esque attitude and you have more than enough reason to hate that prick. There's no comparison to this pest anywhere in the NHL

Even though I don't think the comparison is valid; I don't hate Rolston at all. Actually, I find him quite likeable off the ice.

[stevestevens]

I really don't see the evidence of this to show that it's true. He's a UFA, maybe he wants to test the market. Maybe he just wants to play somewhere that's not St. Louis, Toronto or Phoenix.

I feel like you may be putting too much stock into his stats and not enough into his play. I don't know what is suggesting he could score upwards of 30 goals when last season the only players to get even 20 were Parise, Zajac and Rolston. Given, Langenbrunner and Elias were at 19 and Elias would have had 20 if he played a full season. I just don't see how Stempniak comes in and scores 20. I would say Clarkson is a better fit for a 2nd line RW than Stempniak.

[Neb00rs]

I feel like you may be putting too much stock into his stats and not enough into his play. I don't know what is suggesting he could score upwards of 30 goals when last season the only players to get even 20 were Parise, Zajac and Rolston. Given, Langenbrunner and Elias were at 19 and Elias would have had 20 if he played a full season. I just don't see how Stempniak comes in and scores 20. I would say Clarkson is a better fit for a 2nd line RW than Stempniak.

First off, 30 is the max he would score in a career year. I said 25-30 and I stand by that. He's entering the peak of his career.

Secondly, I'm not arguing for Stempniak to be signed by the Devils, just that he is a good player. I used the Elias/Arnott/Stempniak line as an example of how he might do on a good line/team.

Even though it's off-topic: I think Clarkson is not the best fit for 2nd line RW even from what the Devs already have. Zubrus is the best fit. Langs on the first line. Clarkson needs to play 3rd line RW.

If we had Stempniak I'd rather play him on the 2nd line than Clarkson but not Zubrus. Stempniak is simply more skilled than Clarkson, though not as gritty...but we need skill on our second line. All of this is irrelevant though as Clarkson WILL play on the 3rd line next year.

[insanity_gallops]

Stempniak has never really impressed me. Who's the guy that always gets thrown around for comparison... Donald Audette? Dude put up lots of 20-goal seasons, but really wasn't that great of a player.

Stempniak isn't the kind of player the Devils need, in my opinion. I think the estimates of him scoring around 15-20 goals are valid, probably on the low end. Considering he made $3.5mil last year, he could be using his stint in Phoenix as a bargaining chip and trying to get around $4mil per season.

I really believe the Devils' top six is set until a trade deadline acquisition (fingers crossed) with Parise, Zajac, Elias, Arnott, Langenbrunner and Zubrus. As Jas0n brought up in another thread, signing a guy like Stempniak further pushes youngsters like Tedenby and Josefson to the fringe and makes it harder for them to possibly make the team.

[DH26]

He's never been a plus player, even the year he scored 27 for STL. Before he got traded from Toronto last year, he had 14 goals in 62 games. For a one dimensional player, that's not good enough. Plus he's only topped 50 points once, at 52

[Neb00rs]

He's never been a plus player, even the year he scored 27 for STL.

And why do you think that is? Kovalchuk is a -75 for his career, so I guess he sucks too?

[insanity_gallops]

And why do you think that is? Kovalchuk is a -75 for his career, so I guess he sucks too?

C'mon man - you can make +/- arguments rationally, but comparing Kovalchuk and his +/- to Stempniak and his +/- strikes me as being a bit ludicrous.

Kovalchuk is known to be something of a defensive liability, but he's also a premier goal scorer. Stempniak is known for being secondary/tertiary scoring and, well, I guess hustle and effort. He also didn't do jack for the Coyotes in the playoffs.

This scrutiny over Stempniak is a bit intense and over the top. Arguments can certainly be made to bring him to the team, but I just don't really see the point of continuing it... I can't imagine Lou's "more moves to be made" references are a roundabout way of hinting at Stempniak. (Yeah, I know... see "Pikkarainen, Ilkka, 2009")

[Neb00rs]

C'mon man - you can make +/- arguments rationally, but comparing Kovalchuk and his +/- to Stempniak and his +/- strikes me as being a bit ludicrous.

Kovalchuk is known to be something of a defensive liability, but he's also a premier goal scorer. Stempniak is known for being secondary/tertiary scoring and, well, I guess hustle and effort. He also didn't do jack for the Coyotes in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, I was just pointing out that good players can have a bad +/- if they play for a bad team.

This scrutiny over Stempniak is a bit intense and over the top. Arguments can certainly be made to bring him to the team, but I just don't really see the point of continuing it... I can't imagine Lou's "more moves to be made" references are a roundabout way of hinting at Stempniak. (Yeah, I know... see "Pikkarainen, Ilkka, 2009")

I'll say again: I'm not arguing that Stempniak should be signed, just that he is a good player.

[cubanjd305]

Even though I don't think the comparison is valid; I don't hate Rolston at all. Actually, I find him quite likeable off the ice.

I don't hate him personally...but I despise him on the ice

[stevestevens]

First off, 30 is the max he would score in a career year. I said 25-30 and I stand by that. He's entering the peak of his career.

Secondly, I'm not arguing for Stempniak to be signed by the Devils, just that he is a good player. I used the Elias/Arnott/Stempniak line as an example of how he might do on a good line/team.

Even though it's off-topic: I think Clarkson is not the best fit for 2nd line RW even from what the Devs already have. Zubrus is the best fit. Langs on the first line. Clarkson needs to play 3rd line RW.

If we had Stempniak I'd rather play him on the 2nd line than Clarkson but not Zubrus. Stempniak is simply more skilled than Clarkson, though not as gritty...but we need skill on our second line. All of this is irrelevant though as Clarkson WILL play on the 3rd line next year.

You're really marking Stempniak from his 5 good weeks in Phoenix, look at his playoff stats. 7 games, 0 goals and 2 assists. Stempniak is a good acquisition for a team who is looking to survive and gut through a season. No team is winning a cup with Stempniak on the second line. I know you say you're not arguing that but I'm just making my point, take it as it is.

And I like Clarkson more for the second line because he has more potential for goals and on a line with Elias and Arnott you need someone willing to get dirty in the corners and in front of the net. Yeah, Zubrus CAN do it but he is never willing.

[deb4te]

Does anyone realize that he's been on terrible lines his whole career?

[stevestevens]

Does anyone realize that he's been on terrible lines his whole career?

Mostly because A) lack of talent of teams he has been on and B) if you have a good line you're not putting someone as slow as Stempniak on it. He isn't exactly the most talented player.

[njdevs89]

Canadians win championships fellahs.

[Neb00rs]

You're really marking Stempniak from his 5 good weeks in Phoenix, look at his playoff stats. 7 games, 0 goals and 2 assists. Stempniak is a good acquisition for a team who is looking to survive and gut through a season. No team is winning a cup with Stempniak on the second line. I know you say you're not arguing that but I'm just making my point, take it as it is.

And I like Clarkson more for the second line because he has more potential for goals and on a line with Elias and Arnott you need someone willing to get dirty in the corners and in front of the net. Yeah, Zubrus CAN do it but he is never willing.

How do you know this? He has never played on a contending team.

Also, I believe Stempniak scored 27 goals on a bad St. Louis team.

Zubrus is a much better choice for the second line. He has more size and skill than Clarkson and is a much better player overall.

Edited July 13, 2010 by ben00rs

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

Does anyone realize that he's been on terrible lines his whole career?

You earn your way to more playing time and with better line mates. He hasn't earned a thing in his career until the last 2 months of the season.

[Marshall]

You earn your way to more playing time and with better line mates. He hasn't earned a thing in his career until the last 2 months of the season.

But Toronto didn't have good linemates for him, plus remember that he was young and trying to find his way. And you gotta take the Dave Tippett-effect into account, whatever it was he saw in him he found a way to put Stempniak to good use. He could be a new Franzen.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Marshall

[Devils731]

Of he could be the next Aaron Voros. Since his big production moments are mostly fueled by insanely high shooting percentages, that's probably a good comparison.

I keep seeing that he played for bad teams and so those held his numbers down but playing for bad teams can sometimes inflate mediocre players numbers. They get to play in the prime offensive roles, like trigger man on a PP or something, that they would never come close to playing on a good offensive team. Obviously if you're a feature guy on a PP, you'll score more points than if you're not on a PP at all. Not saying this is definitely the case here, but just blanketly saying he played for a bad team so his numbers will improve on a good team can be a false proposition.

[Neb00rs]

I keep seeing that he played for bad teams and so those held his numbers down but playing for bad teams can sometimes inflate mediocre players numbers. They get to play in the prime offensive roles, like trigger man on a PP or something, that they would never come close to playing on a good offensive team. Obviously if you're a feature guy on a PP, you'll score more points than if you're not on a PP at all. Not saying this is definitely the case here, but just blanketly saying he played for a bad team so his numbers will improve on a good team can be a false proposition.

In a player like Stempniak's case, his numbers would be better on a better team. He's not a very big guy and nor is he a great player. You need at least one of those two attributes to do well by yourself on a bad team. Stempniak is simply a good player who needs other, better players around him. He's not an extremely dynamic player and needs to be able to focus on the few skills that he is good at. Playing him on a better line would give him that chance.

Oh and any argument that he should've "earned" better linemates is ridiculous. He played for terrible teams with no one to play with and still almost put up 30 goals a few years back.

[Devils731]

In a player like Stempniak's case, his numbers would be better on a better team. He's not a very big guy and nor is he a great player. You need at least one of those two attributes to do well by yourself on a bad team. Stempniak is simply a good player who needs other, better players around him. He's not an extremely dynamic player and needs to be able to focus on the few skills that he is good at. Playing him on a better line would give him that chance.

Oh and any argument that he should've "earned" better linemates is ridiculous. He played for terrible teams with no one to play with and still almost put up 30 goals a few years back.

So if Stempniak is on a good team and doesn't play on the PP his goal scoring would get way worse, not better. Good teams don't want to put a guy who isn't a big guy and isn't a great player and it's a great shooter with their best players.

If Stempniak was a Devil he'd end up playing with...lets say Josefson and Clarkson, just to throw two possible 3rd liners out there. He wouldn't play on the PP. If he shoots, say 10%, then what do we think he'd end up with for goals? I'd guess about 15 or 16.

15 or 16 goals from a guy who isn't adding anything else to the team isn't a great option, I'd rather the Devils rotate younger guys through that slot, even if you ended up with only 10 goals from that slot because they're rookies.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Devils731

[Neb00rs]

So if Stempniak is on a good team and doesn't play on the PP his goal scoring would get way worse, not better. Good teams don't want to put a guy who isn't a big guy and isn't a great player and it's a great shooter with their best players.

If Stempniak was a Devil he'd end up playing with...lets say Josefson and Clarkson, just to throw two possible 3rd liners out there. He wouldn't play on the PP. If he shoots, say 10%, then what do we think he'd end up with for goals? I'd guess about 15 or 16.

15 or 16 goals from a guy who isn't adding anything else to the team isn't a great option, I'd rather the Devils rotate younger guys through that slot, even if you ended up with only 10 goals from that slot because they're rookies.

Again, I don't want Stempniak on the Devils...really I don't.

16 goals for a 3rd line Devils player wouldn't be so bad though. All I know about Stempniak is that in 18 games played for a good team for the first time in his career, he put up an outstanding number of goals. Obviously in 82 games that percentage doesn't stay consistent but even if it cuts in half it's still pretty good. I mean, here's a guy who scored 27 goals in one season, on the Blues. No he isn't going to lead your team in points and nor is he going to be an all-star. But, he is a good player and a valuable addition to a team.

[insanity_gallops]

Just an interesting observation to toss in on Stempniak in Phoenix. For all this talk about him benefiting from good players... the most of his even strength ice time in Phoenix was playing alongside Vernon Fiddler and Taylor Pyatt. He also saw a good chunk of even strength time with Fiddler and Wolski. And it's not like he was lethal on the powerplay; only 4 of his 14 goals were on the man advantage.

However, I'm inclined to read this as being on a serious hot streak. He was shooting close to 30% as others pointed out (that's Jeremy Roenick in NHL '94), and at times he was paired with another hot streak player in Wolski. It's also a interesting that despite getting an even share of PP time as other names like Doan, Wolski, Lombardi, etc, he had one PP assist in his time with Phoenix, and that came in their 5-2 win over Detroit in the playoffs.

Confidence is a funny thing. I think he greatly benefited from getting a fresh start with a team that was playing like they had nothing to lose - and then they just kept winning games and feeling confident in their abilities. Stempniak certainly played a role in that, no doubt. But I just don't see him being able to sustain that kind of impact over the course of an entire season.

I think even St. Louis recognized this back in 2008-2009 - before they traded him, he was playing with Boyes and MacDonald, and had 13 points in 14 games. They still felt he was expendable and shipped him off to Toronto. To be fair to Stempniak, though... he did end up playing most of his even strength shifts with Dominic Moore and Jason Blake, and that was the season Moore had a breakout campaign and Blake topped 60 points.

[Neb00rs]

Just an interesting observation to toss in on Stempniak in Phoenix. For all this talk about him benefiting from good players... the most of his even strength ice time in Phoenix was playing alongside Vernon Fiddler and Taylor Pyatt. He also saw a good chunk of even strength time with Fiddler and Wolski. And it's not like he was lethal on the powerplay; only 4 of his 14 goals were on the man advantage.

However, I'm inclined to read this as being on a serious hot streak. He was shooting close to 30% as others pointed out (that's Jeremy Roenick in NHL '94), and at times he was paired with another hot streak player in Wolski. It's also a interesting that despite getting an even share of PP time as other names like Doan, Wolski, Lombardi, etc, he had one PP assist in his time with Phoenix, and that came in their 5-2 win over Detroit in the playoffs.

Confidence is a funny thing. I think he greatly benefited from getting a fresh start with a team that was playing like they had nothing to lose - and then they just kept winning games and feeling confident in their abilities. Stempniak certainly played a role in that, no doubt. But I just don't see him being able to sustain that kind of impact over the course of an entire season.

I think even St. Louis recognized this back in 2008-2009 - before they traded him, he was playing with Boyes and MacDonald, and had 13 points in 14 games. They still felt he was expendable and shipped him off to Toronto. To be fair to Stempniak, though... he did end up playing most of his even strength shifts with Dominic Moore and Jason Blake, and that was the season Moore had a breakout campaign and Blake topped 60 points.

A good post for sure and good collection of info...

Remember even though he definitely csn't keep up the same production for a full season, even half the numbers he put up with Phoenix would be good.