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Mottau to the Isles


jagknife

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Just because people are pointing out White's shortcomings doesn't mean they hate him. White takes himself out of position a lot, and he cannot keep the puck in the offensive zone. Just because I say that doesn't mean I hate him. I just don't think he is the defenseman he was or the defenseman that earned that contract years ago (before the injury).

And blaming his partner for white being out of posistion is not fair. When A-train gets out of position and Greene gets beat 2 - 1, I will blame A-train.

Motts has such hatred towards him that defending him makes one a White hater?

the lack of logic on this board is mind boggleing at times.(like my spelling)

Joe

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Ahhhh, so you're one of those "I hate Colin White for that one play he made last year I don't care about the amount of solid plays and toughness he brings to our club" people. Bye!

He made a fair point. White still has value, but he's no longer able to play with a weaker partner. I think it has more to do with his back than his eye, but that's neither here nor there. The White Motts pairing was doomed to fail. They're both slow, and White needs a partner who can play a 2 on 1, because he needs to be free to risk getting caught out of position to make the big check. It's not Motts' fault he couldn't bail White out any more than it was White's fault he got caught out of position sometimes. They're both flawed players who were an awful pairing. They're also both useful if used correctly.

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yeah colin white will do well as a scapegoat, i think, because he never hits or fights. even though he clearly hits, and can't fight, and shouldn't be fighting anyway.

i was trying to resist coming in here sounding like a dumb reactionary fan but i just can't. let's be fair with what colin white is - he's a #4. period. at best, you'll essentially not notice that he's there and that's fine for the role he's going to play in NJ which is actually more of a 4-5 if things shake out correctly. but that's not to say that he doesn't have issues because he most CERTAINLY does.

as i'm sure you know, i really don't like him as a player since his eye injury. seeing as many games in person as i do, you can pick up on some things and white often not seeing what's coming or happening on the other side of the ice is always something that makes me go crazy. his decision making when it comes to passes is poor at best and if they kept stats on icings (especially bad ones), i'd be sure he led the league (taking this mantle from daneyko).

now i know you'll bring up the "human bias" that says that because i've made up my mind he stinks, that's all i see when i watch him at games and I'll grant that to a degree. but i can remember watching just about every other defenseman (including mottau) making intellegent passes fairly regularly and moving the play along. but with white, i always found myself seeing him stall those kinds of plays - making bad passes that miss their intended target or just banging the puck off the glass/boards to get it out of the zone (giving up the puck) when it was clear that even a decent pass could be made to a teammate.

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I don't think White has many, if any, problems with the eye anymore. He's just kind of offensively retarded, and in a system like the one they had last year, it's going to be pretty noticable.

It's a good value signing for the Isles that could turn into a great one. And obviously, Devils fans have to got scapegoat shopping. So, if Urbom isn't ready to play in the NHL and plays like junior defensemen transating to the NHL often do, I'm sure as pointed out, Colin White will be the problem.

Not that it mattered, they couldn't sign Mottau for that in their present state.

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i was trying to resist coming in here sounding like a dumb reactionary fan but i just can't. let's be fair with what colin white is - he's a #4. period. at best, you'll essentially not notice that he's there and that's fine for the role he's going to play in NJ which is actually more of a 4-5 if things shake out correctly. but that's not to say that he doesn't have issues because he most CERTAINLY does.

I don't think that anyone would argue that White is any better than a great 4th d-man. The point is he does more for the money paid to him than most other players in his salary bracket.

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i was trying to resist coming in here sounding like a dumb reactionary fan but i just can't. let's be fair with what colin white is - he's a #4. period. at best, you'll essentially not notice that he's there and that's fine for the role he's going to play in NJ which is actually more of a 4-5 if things shake out correctly. but that's not to say that he doesn't have issues because he most CERTAINLY does.

i don't like grouping defensemen like this. when defensemen have such divergent roles, as they tend to, characterizing them as something like a #4 seems academic. regardless of whether he's a '#4' - to me, he's clearly a 2nd pairing defenseman, who can provide adequate play in difficult situations.

statistically, john fischer over at in lou we trust did a nice examination of white:

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2010/8/17/1628380/colin-white-is-a-pretty-good-3

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2010/8/18/1630247/how-colin-whites-defensive

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2010/8/20/1634202/colin-white-compared-to-his

as i'm sure you know, i really don't like him as a player since his eye injury. seeing as many games in person as i do, you can pick up on some things and white often not seeing what's coming or happening on the other side of the ice is always something that makes me go crazy. his decision making when it comes to passes is poor at best and if they kept stats on icings (especially bad ones), i'd be sure he led the league (taking this mantle from daneyko).

i'm glad you brought up selection bias to forestall my inevitable comment, but you're still demonstrating it. put it this way - if you didn't know he had had an eye injury, would you deduce from his play that he has an eye injury? that might be a little ridiculous, so i'll put it differently: might you be noticing things that you ascribe to an eye injury that may not, in fact, be the cause of white's poor play? his basic stats are quite excellent for someone apparently addled with eye trouble.

i will say that it's damn near impossible that white or daneyko led the league in icings, but i do wish they kept that as a stat - both icings per player and icings while on-ice.

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I don't think White has many, if any, problems with the eye anymore. He's just kind of offensively retarded, and in a system like the one they had last year, it's going to be pretty noticable.

It's a good value signing for the Isles that could turn into a great one. And obviously, Devils fans have to got scapegoat shopping. So, if Urbom isn't ready to play in the NHL and plays like junior defensemen transating to the NHL often do, I'm sure as pointed out, Colin White will be the problem.

Not that it mattered, they couldn't sign Mottau for that in their present state.

they could've pretty easily signed mottau to the contract he currently has, although a 2nd year might've been out of the question.

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they could've pretty easily signed mottau to the contract he currently has, although a 2nd year might've been out of the question.

if they're stuck doing nothing but waving Sal, they only end up having 5 digit cap space. they would have to waive Mottau too. I think the most they could have covered was what Urbom is getting this year. $800K is way too much.

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if they're stuck doing nothing but waving Sal, they only end up having 5 digit cap space. they would have to waive Mottau too. I think the most they could have covered was what Urbom is getting this year. $800K is way too much.

i guess i never did consider this, but that's because it's nuts. it involves demoting zharkov, replacing him with a minimum salary, and having taormina or fraser be the #6. 20 players w/ less than $80,000 in cap room, which i'm not sure is being banked because of salmela's injury. seems absolutely bonkers unless lou can figure out a way to get rid of zubrus or rolston during the season.

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Good luck to him. I think he was unfairly the goat perhaps too many times to be honest. He was given mosnter minutes and expected to step up. I believe he's a decent 5th or 6th defender if given limited ice time.

i agree... i like mike, he was asked to do way too much. he's a great third pairing 5,6,7 guy...

his monster minutes was ridiculous... the devils road him like a rental car with out changing the oil or belts... it was actually criminal.

i'll never forget those phantom checks where he would just fall over in key moments... or when he was just tossed around like an exploding blow up fvck doll.

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i really don't like him as a player since his eye injury. seeing as many games in person as i do, you can pick up on some things and white often not seeing what's coming or happening on the other side of the ice is always something that makes me go crazy.

I don't know that it's the eye. He was doing it a little bit before, and actually got better right after he came back, which makes me think the bad back has more to do with it. He's struggling to skate without pain, and can't keep up with guys, and that means his possession game is problematic to say the least. When he's rested and pain free, he's a force, but the grind wears on him. If the d had depth, we could try to keep him fresh, but the cap situation seems to ensure he's playing every day short of a real injury. :doh1:

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i guess i never did consider this, but that's because it's nuts. it involves demoting zharkov, replacing him with a minimum salary, and having taormina or fraser be the #6. 20 players w/ less than $80,000 in cap room, which i'm not sure is being banked because of salmela's injury. seems absolutely bonkers unless lou can figure out a way to get rid of zubrus or rolston during the season.

they've only got a week or so to clear day. I think it's more likely a scenario than you think. trading Sal is the same as waiving him, so that doesn't make a difference. Zubrus, to me, isn't waiver-worthy. I'd rather roll with no extra players, than carry scratches and have him in the minors.

and Zharkov is gone and Adam Mair is still here (and scored tonight), so one step of the prophecy is complete

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they've only got a week or so to clear day. I think it's more likely a scenario than you think. trading Sal is the same as waiving him, so that doesn't make a difference. Zubrus, to me, isn't waiver-worthy. I'd rather roll with no extra players, than carry scratches and have him in the minors.

and Zharkov is gone and Adam Mair is still here (and scored tonight), so one step of the prophecy is complete

i mean, maybe someone will want rolston on re-entry eventually. but a week or so to clear day is kinda meaningless imo, lou is fully comfortable waiting until the last minute on these things. the problem is going with 6 defensemen - that's just asking for trouble. i can see going with 12 forwards and 7 D - playing a game with 11 forwards isn't a problem. playing with 5 D absolutely is a problem.

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So, Zharkov's salary is gone and assuming Salvador (waiver) and Salmela (IR) do not count against our cap, we'll have a line up like this:

ZZKO

ALE

Rolston-Josefsen-Clarkson

PL3-Pelley-Zubrus

White-A train

Tallinder-Greene

Corrente-Fraser

Brodeur

Hedberg

I know this is premature, but the team can slash approximately 4.2M (we'd have 1.2M cap space then), but like Triumph said, this is too risky because we might not have enough of cap room to callup somebody if we run into injury problems.

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i mean, maybe someone will want rolston on re-entry eventually. but a week or so to clear day is kinda meaningless imo, lou is fully comfortable waiting until the last minute on these things. the problem is going with 6 defensemen - that's just asking for trouble. i can see going with 12 forwards and 7 D - playing a game with 11 forwards isn't a problem. playing with 5 D absolutely is a problem.

well, they do have around 30-40 cap days to work with. I mean, to do this for 6 months would be beyond psychotic, but if you HAVE to, if no one is going to make a trade, you could make it work for a month or two. if your alternative is farming Zubrus (which I think makes no sense, because he's gone for the season or forever, then), or teams calling you up and saying "hey, we want Langs, and you get this shiny 5th round pick" or "How about this Elias guy for a grinder and a mediocre prospect", what do you do?

we're ridiculously cap bound and the parts we have to move, alot of them aren't going to get too many bites. Sal, I mean, if you want Sal, you can have him for free in a trade or claim him on the way down, but the rest of them? meh.

I think this could end up like the Julien season where they're so cap-bound they go into certain games short

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also, in this scenario, Josefson can't make the team. extras have to be of the 500K type. Tedenby won't be an issue because he isn't making the team anyway.

your top 9 would be

Parise - Zajac - Kovalchuk

Elias - Arnott - Langs

Rolston - Zubrus - Clarkson

nice top 9, your D will be the sh!ts, though. but I think it might end up being the sh!ts no matter what you do

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i'm glad you brought up selection bias to forestall my inevitable comment, but you're still demonstrating it. put it this way - if you didn't know he had had an eye injury, would you deduce from his play that he has an eye injury? that might be a little ridiculous, so i'll put it differently: might you be noticing things that you ascribe to an eye injury that may not, in fact, be the cause of white's poor play? his basic stats are quite excellent for someone apparently addled with eye trouble.

i will say that it's damn near impossible that white or daneyko led the league in icings, but i do wish they kept that as a stat - both icings per player and icings while on-ice.

i notice these things first and assume it HAS to be because of the eye injury or else he's just not very good when trying to do anything with regards to advancing the puck. he is more than capable on the walls and down low and is fairly sound positionally - the whole "pylon" thing really isn't true at all and I'd say my eyes agree with the stats that say shots go down (against) when he's out there. but i'd argue that he does less than zero to help his cause advancing the puck. i'm well aware that there's more that goes into it and the forwards that are out there when he's out there have something to do with it.

as for your icing comment, are you saying it because they don't have enough TOI to likely warrant that crown? because anecdotally, they both do (did) it a ton.

i mean, maybe someone will want rolston on re-entry eventually. but a week or so to clear day is kinda meaningless imo, lou is fully comfortable waiting until the last minute on these things. the problem is going with 6 defensemen - that's just asking for trouble. i can see going with 12 forwards and 7 D - playing a game with 11 forwards isn't a problem. playing with 5 D absolutely is a problem.

if the 7 d include corrente, you could certainly do it as he's proven very capable of playing a 4th line winger.

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i notice these things first and assume it HAS to be because of the eye injury or else he's just not very good when trying to do anything with regards to advancing the puck. he is more than capable on the walls and down low and is fairly sound positionally - the whole "pylon" thing really isn't true at all and I'd say my eyes agree with the stats that say shots go down (against) when he's out there. but i'd argue that he does less than zero to help his cause advancing the puck. i'm well aware that there's more that goes into it and the forwards that are out there when he's out there have something to do with it.

as for your icing comment, are you saying it because they don't have enough TOI to likely warrant that crown? because anecdotally, they both do (did) it a ton.

devils don't really match up d to forwards, or at least they didn't last season.

they don't spend enough time in the defensive zone for that to be the case. icing leaders almost have to be from teams that give up a ton of shots.

if the 7 d include corrente, you could certainly do it as he's proven very capable of playing a 4th line winger.

i don't like messing with corrente's development like that.

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