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Devils take offense to defense first


Rock

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and post kovalchuk we had a GAA of 2.33. huge explosion that has to be attributed to kovalchuk alone.

Bingo, never mind the team led by el cap-i-tan tuning out Lemaire or Marty showing the effects of playing 75+ games again, not to mention Greene also wearing down in the stretch and Fraser getting exposed.

so? the rangers had a graphic that the rangers did way better when they had jason strudwick in the lineup than when they didn't. look, obviously gonchar makes a team better, but he doesn't make a .500 team into a .667 team. no player does that.

So, benoors was wrong. Nothing more. Gonchar's not a good 'defenseman' per se but his impact in other areas (offensively, puck-moving) has for the better part of his career more than negated that, unlike say, Mike Green who's just so god-awful defensively it shows up in the postseason.

Edited by Hasan4978
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yes that really makes your point. you were arguing for gonchar as a top pairing defenseman, now you're settling for 'makes a team better', which 80% of the NHL does.

The fact that you begrudgingly admitted he makes a difference means you are starting to get it.

Baby steps!

Edited by MantaRay
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I like Volchenkov, but he is one dimensional. Stevens had a lot of offensive talent, to go along with his defensive skill----which is what makes a #1 in my book.

Gonchar is one dimensional. He is horrible in his own zone. How is he a number 1?

just trying to figure out your logic. If a defensman is good at defending(which, in my book, is kinda important for a defensman) but has no offensive talent, he's not a number 1. But a great offensive defenman, who happens to be a pylon in his own end is a number 1?

This team is not going to just forget to play D. Devils have a better defensive group of defensman then they did as a Jennings winning team, but they are some how sub par this year.

Your hatred for the Kovy signing has crept into your valuation of the rest of the team.

Joe

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Gonchar is one dimensional. He is horrible in his own zone. How is he a number 1?

just trying to figure out your logic. If a defensman is good at defending(which, in my book, is kinda important for a defensman) but has no offensive talent, he's not a number 1. But a great offensive defenman, who happens to be a pylon in his own end is a number 1?

This team is not going to just forget to play D. Devils have a better defensive group of defensman then they did as a Jennings winning team, but they are some how sub par this year.

Your hatred for the Kovy signing has crept into your valuation of the rest of the team.

Joe

Gonchar is a strong transitional player that gets his team out of trouble. He is a #1 guy because he make his team better.

You can rationalize all you want, but this isn't the same team that started last year and cruised to the Jennings.

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Gonchar is a strong transitional player that gets his team out of trouble. He is a #1 guy because he make his team better.

You can rationalize all you want, but this isn't the same team that started last year and cruised to the Jennings.

the devils will probably not win the jennings trophy, but that doesn't mean they're not better at defense. this seems contradictory, but things like the jennings trophy are based a lot on good fortune and whether or not the team has 2 goaltenders capable of playing at a high level (or in the devils' case, 1 goaltender). since i expect hedberg and his .900 SV% to get at least 10 games this year, i don't see it. i still see NJ as a top 10 defense.

gonchar is not a strong transitional player. he's an excellent power play quarterback with a hard shot who gets beat in the defensive zone all the time. ask penguins fans how they feel about gonchar being gone.

Edited by Triumph
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How is Volchenkov not a 1st pairing defenseman? He is one of the leagues best defensive defenseman. We are upgraded at both defence and offence this year. Last year the flyers wore the devils down in the defensive zone because we were a soft team. Bringing in Volchenkov addresses that. And resigning paul martin would not have been a good move. We would have had to spend more than 5m to keep him here and he has done nothing in the playoffs. His playoff numbers are equal to or worse than Tallinder. With the additions of Arnott, Volchenkov, and Tallinder and a change in the system that compliments the players we have, this is a much better team.

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wow.. man... I -- I can fight it but... :saddevil: you know... the loss of Martin, Mottau and now Salvadore... we're in some kind of trouble now. If only we had Gonchar back...:unsure: with ..the Pens because ... he made them so much better and now they have to settle for Martin...who made us that much worse and therefore the Pens better so we shoudl get Gonchar because...he's --- just what we need...

%$# Kovalchuk man! Gonchar NEVER woudl have gone to Ottawa if we hadn't signed Kovalchuk! :rant:

I just BOIL when I think... we could have had Gonchar instead of Scott Stevens if we'd just been more on the ball... that turned out so well for the Caps... and Brendan Witt too -- DAMMIT LOU has SUCKED LIKE THIS FOR YEARS!!!

We can joke but seriously -- the man has ZERO brains when it comes to defence... if only you thought Lou Lamouriello - defence... like as if they were like one in the same... sh!t no. we sit here grabbing these offensive fartknockers like what's his face Atlanta let go... the Russian one...

You know... it's Ottawa man... they have the good sniper from Atlanta and now Gonchar too.... they're getting us back...

HA! and look at the Caps! BOYYYYYHOYHOY they LOST Gonchar man.... and now look at them. SUCKAGE. Where are THEY going this season... infuriating... some flah in the pan sniper... as IF that's going tohelp <_<

it;s all about Gonchar man.. andit's not the guy -- it's that kind og THINKING. THAT"S what this team needs... yeah...

so ha.

Edited by Pepperkorn
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Bingo, never mind the team led by el cap-i-tan tuning out Lemaire or Marty showing the effects of playing 75+ games again, not to mention Greene also wearing down in the stretch and Fraser getting exposed.

So, benoors was wrong. Nothing more. Gonchar's not a good 'defenseman' per se but his impact in other areas (offensively, puck-moving) has for the better part of his career more than negated that, unlike say, Mike Green who's just so god-awful defensively it shows up in the postseason.

What was I wrong about? All I was saying is that the Pens could survive without Gonchar. His presence doesn't make or break a season nor was he the sole reason the team was 17-4-4.

so? the rangers had a graphic that the rangers did way better when they had jason strudwick in the lineup than when they didn't. look, obviously gonchar makes a team better, but he doesn't make a .500 team into a .667 team. no player does that.

This.

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How is Volchenkov not a 1st pairing defenseman? He is one of the leagues best defensive defenseman. We are upgraded at both defence and offence this year. Last year the flyers wore the devils down in the defensive zone because we were a soft team. Bringing in Volchenkov addresses that. And resigning paul martin would not have been a good move. We would have had to spend more than 5m to keep him here and he has done nothing in the playoffs. His playoff numbers are equal to or worse than Tallinder. With the additions of Arnott, Volchenkov, and Tallinder and a change in the system that compliments the players we have, this is a much better team.

Thank you njd3blink for your post because I thought this board was starting to lose its collective mind. Volchenkov as a #3 or #4 on a good team, puleeze - that's just a ridiculous statement. And Martin, while a nice puck-moving #2 or #3 D-man, certainly wasn't worth $5 mil a year - I think we can all agree on that. And while I'll acknowledge our D has some question marks, I think I generally like where the Devils are headed. And if some of the kids excel, we'll be just fine. And if they don't, Lou will make a move. Man, I think the board just needs to chill out. Plus, our prospect pool is finally paying dividends, which means that come trade deadline, we'll have some chips to fire into the pot for a late-season upgrade. In short, let's wait until at least 10 games into the season before we start whining that the sky is falling.

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Hey my first post I kept normal because I knew I was writing to you not Manta :P actually I may have deleted it -- let me check...

Manta wants his ass handed to him for some weird reason. It's OK -- it's like me and Scott Stevens,

I hated our Jennings winning defence. In my mind there is no possible way to make it worse - with the exception of keeping it all status quo so these schmucks think they're anywhere in the vicinity of the right track and continue on the same course. Its not a numbers game - it's HOW you play.

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If the winger is ignoring his responsibility at the point in hopes he can get a cheap scoring chance then the whole zone collapses....Ilya

He didn't do that in one game I watched last season, you are flat out lieing. Kovalchuk was a plus 9 in 27 regular season games. That averages out to +27 over a full season. While I hate +- it certainly shows he wasn't on the ice for that many goals against in his stint in New Jersey, especially since he didn't really put up good offensive numbers in that time.

Try again oh fearless liar.

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Manta: Sorry!! Thanks for agreeing with me. I didn't expect you to get your ass handed to you for it. :whistling:

Not so much an Ass-kissing, but more like little children attempting to kick your shins.

These are the same people who thought Zubrus would be putting up 100 points a season here replacing Gomez.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

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Not so much an Ass-kissing, but more like little children attempting to kick your shins.

These are the same people who thought Zubrus would be putting up 100 points a season here replacing Gomez.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

Never heard that one before. Did Scotty Gomez ever put up 100 points?

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What was I wrong about? All I was saying is that the Pens could survive without Gonchar. His presence doesn't make or break a season nor was he the sole reason the team was 17-4-4.

You said you thought their record without Gonchar was better than with him, that wasn't actually the case - how is that not being wrong? Your second sentence is a different argument.

These are the same people who thought Zubrus would be putting up 100 points a season here replacing Gomez.

What people actually said (and I thought Zubrus got a bit overrated his first two years here, probably still is to some extent) is that Zubrus would be a better bang for the buck getting 50-60 points and being more responsible defensively at less than half of Gomez's yearly salary.

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I know it's nit-picking, Manta but Gonchar only played 22 combined reg. season and playoff games with Boston is 03-04. Gonchar's points totals were highest with the Capitals during the Jagr era and in Pitt with Crosby and Ovechkin leading me to believe that Gonchar was only made offensivley better by those around him. Tallinder played on a Buffalo team that hasn't had much scoring punch since the loss of Drury and Briere. Connolly had concussion issues last season and Vanek is wildly inconsistent. However, like I've said before, having guys like Parise, Kovalchuk, Arnott, Elias etc. to play with gives Tallinder a solid chance of increaing his points totals. Same argument goes for Andy Greene. BTW Volchenkov's +/- is 61 compared to Gonchar's 54

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