No Confidence vote in Louie Lams

[AEWHistory]

A good Gm keeps the team competative and still finds the tallent, thats what Lou has done.

Okay, this is really the fine line--the central nugget--over which we are really debating. I absolutely agree with you that the Devils have been, and might still be, a competitive team. But is that enough? This goes back to one of my initial points about success. We want a team that competes for Stanley Cup championships; this team competes for divisional lead or Conference champ maybe. They are not playoff winners any longer. If that is enough for you, great... that's not enough for me and I think that it isn't enough for most Devils fans. You don't need to suck to not be competitive, and we absolutely don't suck, but we are cresting past the point that this is a championship caliber franchise (if we haven't past that already). So in my mind, Lou has kept this team in the second quartile of the league. That's cool, it's above average, but the Devils were exceptional!

--------

BTW, right now it is definitely looking like my choice, giving Chris Lamoriello the reigns, is definitely not the popular choice. Even those damn secret Nixonian plans are beating my option! :-(

Edited October 21, 2010 by AEWHistory

[DevsMan84]

You are missing the point, they had to suck to get those players, would you really want that as a fan? i sure as hell wouldn't. I could have run their teams and they could have ended up with those players, its not hard to put together a crap team and draft Ovechkins. Give me an NHL team and i will have you the number one pick garunteed by christmas (unless stather has other idea's).

Also the first three are generational tallents. You don't get thoes unless you are really crap or make a trade with the Leafs.

If the Rangers had picked him they would have a good GM and scouting team because they would have done their job, they didn't, we did, hence why we have one of the best GM's and scouting teams in the NHL.

A good Gm keeps the team competative and still finds the tallent, thats what Lou has done.

Or it could have been luck that the 2003 draft year was the best ever (at least in the last 25-30 years) and that another team or 2 gambled wrong. Usually the draft takes a decline in quality after the first 5 picks, and then another by pick 15. By the time the devils picked in that year, the quality was still very high. That draft was a once every 20-30 year draft where almost every team walked away with a winner. It is like playing a 30-person game where 29 people will walk away with a winner and calling yourself a mastermind when you are one of the 29.

[DevsMan84]

Okay, this is really the fine line--the central nugget--over which we are really debating. I absolutely agree with you that the Devils have been, and might still be, a competitive team. But is that enough? This goes back to one of my initial points about success. We want a team that competes for Stanley Cup championships; this team competes for divisional lead or Conference champ maybe. They are not playoff winners any longer. If that is enough for you, great... that's not enough for me and I think that it isn't enough for most Devils fans. You don't need to suck to not be competitive, and we absolutely don't suck, but we are cresting past the point that this is a championship caliber franchise (if we haven't past that already). So in my mind, Lou has kept this team in the second quartile of the league. That's cool, it's above average, but the Devils were exceptional!

I have been praying for a while now that Lou would make a trade so that we would get a top 5 draft pick. Hasn't happened yet in the last 10 years, but I would like for him to do it soon. It is a tough to build a championship quality team from #20-30 picks and in the last few years, we have not even had a first round pick sometimes, and we will for sure not have a first round pick in at least one of the next 4 drafts.

I still think Lou is overall a good GM. There are far worse ones in the league. However, he has def lost his shine in the last few years, and it looks like he is having trouble adapting to the post-lockout hockey era.

[JohnnyP.]

I think we all have Lou's back. (not that he needs it)

He makes the "right decision because it was the right decision to make". I am paraphasing here. I recall him saying something to that effect once when he made a trade way back. Fischler or Loughlin asked why the move?

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Let me ask you something Chimaira, does the ship actually have to sink for you to admit that we're taking on water?

Just like the other teams mentioned, the Devils were also built during years of poor performance. Where do you think Brodeur, Daneyko, Stephens (thru Shanny), Niedermeyer, MacLean, and a host of our other great players all came from? What you just did was name a couple players that have come thru the farm system in the last ten years. Great, I hope more come thru. OTOH, the Devils farm system of the late-80s and early-90s can now be looked back on as one of the greatest in hockey history. For that I thank Lou. The problem is that those players are now retiring. Coincidence, no? As those players have gotten older and retired, our fortunes have waned, and a few successes here and there haven't been enough to offset the mistakes when you're working with meager resources.

I would also like to note that, just like the Devils, the Red Wings have had just as much success and really more. Yet my impression, and I could be wrong, is that they are still in pretty good shape vis-a-vis their farm system. I don't know how they've done it, but the Devils could have compensated by getting compensation for quality players leaving the franchise and by not relying on giving up draft picks to fix mistakes.

Again, I'll cite the example of Tom Landry: no one, myself included, is impugning Lou's past successes or what he has done for this franchise. What I am wondering is if he is still the best man for the job in this climate. Frankly, I don't believe in having absolute faith in anyone....

I don't know where you are going with all this, I don't believe the ship is sinking for starters, that’s you after 6 games of an NHL season. Also I don't have absolute faith in Lou, I have been sceptical of his signing of Kovi since day one. My feeling is who else out there is better? I cant think of anyone.

You have completely missed my point about the farm team and gone off on some tangent. Ungar said the current farm team was mediocre, My point was the farm team currently doesn’t suck. Lou and Conte have done a good job rebuilding and getting it back to a level where we have assets to work with through smart drafting. In the last few years the have done a fantastic job of this whilst icing a competitive NHL team and not having to blow seasons as we did in the past, and certain teams do now to get good players. In my eyes that’s the work of a good GM. Not having to sacrifice on ice product to find talent.

The Devils are often compared to the Red wings in terms of drafting well from a poor position, if you asked anyone around the league for the two best teams at drafting talent from late in the draft I’m sure people would say the Devils and red wings.

One last point: neither I, nor any of you, nor Lou, nor Chris have any proveable idea how he'll perform as a GM, and the only solid information indicating his likely performance is going to be kept private in the Devs front office. That said, I think that it is a complete misinterpretation of teaching and mentoring to assume that just because you have the 'teacher' it is worthless to hire the 'student' because this person is bound to be a pale imitation. People thought Bill Belicheck was just Bill Parcells sidekick until a decade ago.... now who has more Super Bowl rings? And if you REALLY do feel that way, then we simply MUST fire Lou and find the dude who taught him everything, because that guy must simply be a rockin' success... somewhere.... who the hell is he anyway?

I was suggesting you could ask some Lowell fans how they feel their organisation has been run. I get the general impression they feel its very much in the Lou mould of things, but i could be wrong, i was just looking for some opinion.

So now your saying you have no idea how well the guy you want to replace one of the greatest GM's in sports history will stand up as a GM himself? Fantastic, that’s a good plan. On a whim, can Lou and replace him with an unknown quantity.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Okay, this is really the fine line--the central nugget--over which we are really debating. I absolutely agree with you that the Devils have been, and might still be, a competitive team. But is that enough? This goes back to one of my initial points about success. We want a team that competes for Stanley Cup championships; this team competes for divisional lead or Conference champ maybe. They are not playoff winners any longer. If that is enough for you, great... that's not enough for me and I think that it isn't enough for most Devils fans. You don't need to suck to not be competitive, and we absolutely don't suck, but we are cresting past the point that this is a championship caliber franchise (if we haven't past that already). So in my mind, Lou has kept this team in the second quartile of the league. That's cool, it's above average, but the Devils were exceptional!

--------

BTW, right now it is definitely looking like my choice, giving Chris Lamoriello the reigns, is definitely not the popular choice. Even those damn secret Nixonian plans are beating my option! :-(

Thats not realy what i was arguing to start out with , i was saying the Farm team isn't that bad, i seem to have been dragged into this whole other debate, but i guess we are now, so fair enough.

I think people forget how fortunate they are to follow teams such as the Devils , and then take sucsess such as we had as a given and to an extent for granted. Teams like Florida, Atlanta Columbus and recently Edmonton would kill to have our level of sucsess, and these ar teams who have had high draft picks and not made them count. Again evidence that the Devils draft team are exceptional because even when they did have high draft picks they got the right players and surrouned them with role players to make a team.

No team can consistanlty remain at the top of their game. I belive Lou has kept us competative and every year given us a good chance to win with the roster he has asembled. And he is trying to do it again with Kovi.

Or it could have been luck that the 2003 draft year was the best ever (at least in the last 25-30 years) and that another team or 2 gambled wrong. Usually the draft takes a decline in quality after the first 5 picks, and then another by pick 15. By the time the devils picked in that year, the quality was still very high. That draft was a once every 20-30 year draft where almost every team walked away with a winner. It is like playing a 30-person game where 29 people will walk away with a winner and calling yourself a mastermind when you are one of the 29.

Yeah of course, complete luck we traded up 5 spots to get him.

Look past that one example , the Devils have been finding tallent outside the first round and in different drafts for the last few years.

[Joe B]

didn't even read the thread. With 17 straight playoff aperences, can the team at least miss the playoffs before people want the gm fired?

[RowdyFan42]

Acquiring Kovalchuk will never not be a good move. I don't blame Lou for that; he had a rare opportunity to snag one of the best players in the world and he took it. That said, Lou does have to take some blame for the state of the team the last few years (i.e., pre-Kovy).

I cannot agree with those who think Lou should be given a pass because he won three Cups. Sorry, but past performance does not guarantee future results. Lou has clearly struggled in the salary cap era. I don't know if the cap and/or the CBA forced him to make some moves that he otherwise would not have made or he's simply had a string of failed gambles and this CBA is less forgiving of such failures, but he's been off his game.

Now, I said a couple days ago that this year's team still has the potential to make some noise once the injuries have healed and the cap issues have been resolved. I stand by that statement. It's possible that Lou has finally figured out how to thrive in this changed NHL, Kovy's cap fallout notwithstanding. However, if the Devs fall flat on their faces again this year, I think we should revisit this topic.

[CarpathianForest]

Acquiring Kovalchuk will never not be a good move.

Please, no double negatives on this thread.

[Pepperkorn]

I wanted to see what Joe wrote.

I have nothing to contribute because honestly, I'm just thinking on what I could write that would make Lou haters look stupid and me look like the superior hockey mind. But it's pointless. You hate Lou and all -- well, I'd prefer you go find a different team rather than try to rally the troops to ruin MY team.

You're rabble rousing and I looked long and hard for Lou Lamoriello hockey - (REAL hockey) seriously -- it took me about 15-20 years to be confident of what I was seeing. and if some jerk who decides one day he's got nothing better to do than fvck up New Jersey hockey starts rap tap tapping on his keyboard seeing if he can get Lou fired for sh!ts-n-giggles (as only a$$holes like that say ) Then - - I hope you have some terrible after-life punishment all ready for you from the hockey gods!!

That's my personal opinion. Lou gets fired -- I stop watching hockey. No big deal I guess.

[MantaRay]

ha .. I would have been behind this poll any year leading up to 2010 (ask Tri or DevinLA) -- the kovy signing changes everything.. for good or worse it is what the franchise needed

were headed for some lean years but with lou at the helm and the owner behind him the club will get through..

The franchise does not need to miss the playoffs and slowly watch attendance and interest fad because we no longer a competitive team.

[DevsMan84]

Acquiring Kovalchuk will never not be a good move. I don't blame Lou for that; he had a rare opportunity to snag one of the best players in the world and he took it. That said, Lou does have to take some blame for the state of the team the last few years (i.e., pre-Kovy).

I cannot agree with those who think Lou should be given a pass because he won three Cups. Sorry, but past performance does not guarantee future results. Lou has clearly struggled in the salary cap era. I don't know if the cap and/or the CBA forced him to make some moves that he otherwise would not have made or he's simply had a string of failed gambles and this CBA is less forgiving of such failures, but he's been off his game.

Now, I said a couple days ago that this year's team still has the potential to make some noise once the injuries have healed and the cap issues have been resolved. I stand by that statement. It's possible that Lou has finally figured out how to thrive in this changed NHL, Kovy's cap fallout notwithstanding. However, if the Devs fall flat on their faces again this year, I think we should revisit this topic.

Exactly. Too many times people are all nostalgic about Lou and the players and they fail to see what is good for the team in 5 years from now. Since the lockout, we have won a grand total of 2 playoff series out of 7 played. That is not a good %. He also gambled a lot on free agent signings to fill in the pieces that have gone missing like Malakhov and McGillis when Niedermayer left, Zubrus when Gomez bolted, Rachunek when Rafalski signed with Detroit, and other busts in general (Rolston, Mogilny, Vishnevskiy). However, we all know how that has turned out so far.

I do think Lou is a very good GM in general, but he has come up a little short in the post-lockout world. Other GM's like Ken Holland have adjusted easily to the salary-cap era and still field a cup-contender every year, but with better results than us in the post-season.

[Triumph]

team is fine. the devils just got through 5 years where the lack of depth they had drafted came back to bite them in the form of bad free agent signings. they seem to be doing better at the draft table since 2005, and this as well as the difficult salary cap year ahead will keep them from signing dumb free agents.

ken holland is headed for the same thing the devils went through. when lidstrom retires, the wings go from cup contenders to just another playoff team. their defense is aging, and they've leached talent the past few seasons. they might sign a top defender this off-season, but he won't be anywhere near as good as nick lidstrom.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Triumph

[titansman]

are you serious with this poll.

[Joe B]

The franchise does not need to miss the playoffs and slowly watch attendance and interest fad because we no longer a competitive team.

Again, can you actually wait until the team misses the playoffs before you consider this team dead and buried? I understand you don't like the kovy move, but to say this isn't a competitave team after 6 freaking games is projecting your dislike of the signing.

Can people please explain to me what team you rather have been a fan of the last 5 - 7 years? then tell me that you would have still been a fan in the 5 year leading up to that point. I'll give you detroit, who else?

when was the last time that a few people haven't come on here and say this team isn't making the playoffs. Every year they have been wrong.

Other than detroit, which teams have had more success without a year or two of bottem feeding to get the high draft picks.

I understand that cup or bust is basically the motto, but you can't just dismiss the regular season success either. Usually the higher the seed the easier the matchups. Hasn't been the case the last few years, but to use 94 as an example. Devs had a couple tough playoff series before meeting the Rangers. Rangers had a releativly easy first couple rounds. You reverse that and it might have been enough to tip the 7 game series in their favor instead of a loss. If people can claim that resting Marty an extra game in october might help him be more rested in the playoffs, I don't see how you can argue playing a few less games a week or two before might not help.

Also, as to the orignal post. the title of the post is misleading. If you want fans true opinion, try not having a negative title to the post.

lets see, Marty bashing, lou bashing hmm, where's the Doc bashing? any other HOF'ers(or future) I missed.

[DevsMan84]

Again, can you actually wait until the team misses the playoffs before you consider this team dead and buried? I understand you don't like the kovy move, but to say this isn't a competitave team after 6 freaking games is projecting your dislike of the signing.

Can people please explain to me what team you rather have been a fan of the last 5 - 7 years? then tell me that you would have still been a fan in the 5 year leading up to that point. I'll give you detroit, who else?

when was the last time that a few people haven't come on here and say this team isn't making the playoffs. Every year they have been wrong.

Other than detroit, which teams have had more success without a year or two of bottem feeding to get the high draft picks.

I understand that cup or bust is basically the motto, but you can't just dismiss the regular season success either. Usually the higher the seed the easier the matchups. Hasn't been the case the last few years, but to use 94 as an example. Devs had a couple tough playoff series before meeting the Rangers. Rangers had a releativly easy first couple rounds. You reverse that and it might have been enough to tip the 7 game series in their favor instead of a loss. If people can claim that resting Marty an extra game in october might help him be more rested in the playoffs, I don't see how you can argue playing a few less games a week or two before might not help.

Also, as to the orignal post. the title of the post is misleading. If you want fans true opinion, try not having a negative title to the post.

lets see, Marty bashing, lou bashing hmm, where's the Doc bashing? any other HOF'ers(or future) I missed.

Honestly, if I would have to be a fan of another team I would either be a Stars, LA Kings, Detroit, or St. Louis fan. For some reason I always liked those teams.

Speaking of Doc, I hope he is doing alright. This was mentioned on another post that he doesnt sound too good this year either, and I hope it is nothing serious.

[RowdyFan42]

I understand that cup or bust is basically the motto, but you can't just dismiss the regular season success either. Usually the higher the seed the easier the matchups. Hasn't been the case the last few years, but to use 94 as an example. Devs had a couple tough playoff series before meeting the Rangers. Rangers had a releativly easy first couple rounds. You reverse that and it might have been enough to tip the 7 game series in their favor instead of a loss. If people can claim that resting Marty an extra game in october might help him be more rested in the playoffs, I don't see how you can argue playing a few less games a week or two before might not help.

What bothers me the most about the Devs the past few years is that they've been world-beaters in the regular season but in the playoffs they've been completely lost. I don't know if they're worn out from overachieving during the season or if they simply run into a hot team every single year, but the Jekyll and Hyde-ness is frustrating to say the least.

[DevsMan84]

What bothers me the most about the Devs the past few years is that they've been world-beaters in the regular season but in the playoffs they've been completely lost. I don't know if they're worn out from overachieving during the season or if they simply run into a hot team every single year, but the Jekyll and Hyde-ness is frustrating to say the least.

Some players do not change when the playoffs start, they just disappear. Clarkson is a great example of this.

Plus in the past couple of seasons, we do well for most of the year and struggle in the last 15-20 games going into the playoffs. There is no momentum at all.

[Derlique]

What bothers me the most about the Devs the past few years is that they've been world-beaters in the regular season but in the playoffs they've been completely lost. I don't know if they're worn out from overachieving during the season or if they simply run into a hot team every single year, but the Jekyll and Hyde-ness is frustrating to say the least.

I think its a combination of both. Lets look at our recent playoff losses:

05-06: Carolina- win Stanley Cup

06-07:Ottawa- reach finals

07-08: Rags-- 2nd round

08-09:Carolina- EC finals

09-10:Flyers: reach finals

clearly we have ran into some hot teams

however, it should be noted that recently, we have been slumping going into the playoffs

[CarpathianForest]

We're a very streaky team. If you could graph our wins and losses throughout the season I'm sure it would look like a wave. Some days we come ready to play, some days we don't. This team has to get up for every game which I see as the main problem.

[DevilinLA]

The most recent playoff exits are easily explainable:

2007-08 Brent Sutter's fault

2008-09 Brent Sutter's + Nic Havelid's fault

2009-10 Mike Mottau's fault

Not that all of those folks are gone we are guaranteed to go further and win!

[DevsMan84]

The most recent playoff exits are easily explainable:

2007-08 Brent Sutter's fault

2008-09 Brent Sutter's + Nic Havelid's fault

2009-10 Mike Mottau's fault

Not that all of those folks are gone we are guaranteed to go further and win!

I can kinda see the first two, but cannot see the third.

[CarpathianForest]

Last year was my fault. Every game day I would wear my Devils zip up hoody and the Devils would usually win, but it was April and kind of warm so i didn't during the playoffs and we lost.

[RowdyFan42]

Last year was my fault. Every game day I would wear my Devils zip up hoody and the Devils would usually win, but it was April and kind of warm so i didn't during the playoffs and we lost.

I don't know if you're kidding or not, but a lot of us get really superstitious about that sort of thing in the playoffs. It's almost comical reading some of the threads and seeing people talk about their superstitions.

[CarpathianForest]

Half serious. I did wear my hoody when the Devils won but sometimes I didn't and they won. The idea that I would have the power to make or break a win for my hockey team is a bit egotistic.