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No Confidence vote in Louie Lams


AEWHistory

A Pop-Poll of the current Devs GM  

115 members have voted

  1. 1. Given the Devils' recent history, poor salary cap situation, and poor start, is it time for the Devils franchise to look elsehwere for a GM?

    • NO! Lou Lamoriello made the Devils who they are today and he'll lead us to victory!
    • No, but if the team doesn't show some improvement this year I want a new 'no confidence' vote.
    • Yes, but the Lamoriello system shouldn't be abandoned entirely. Let's see what his son can do as GM.
    • YES! We need a fresh start and a fresh face. The recent past has shown that LL just isn't a good salary-cap era GM, so it is time for a new direction.
    • I have no idea what to do.
      0
    • I have an alternative plan, but it is one of those secret, Nixon-type things. Shhhhh!


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What bothers me the most about the Devs the past few years is that they've been world-beaters in the regular season but in the playoffs they've been completely lost. I don't know if they're worn out from overachieving during the season or if they simply run into a hot team every single year, but the Jekyll and Hyde-ness is frustrating to say the least.

i think there's four major reasons and one minor one why the devils have underachieved.

Major Reason #1: The Devils are way above .500 in overtime/shootout games since the lockout. However, 4 on 4 OT and the shootout don't exist in the playoffs. This gives the Devils a few extra points.

Major Reason #2: The Devils tend to play a lot of overtime games, which gives them a free point whether they win or lose.

Major Reason #3: By playing Brodeur in more games than most starting goaltenders get, this artificially inflated the Devils' point count because a backup goaltender would likely be worse and would cost the Devils 2-3 points a season.

All 3 major reasons above add up to the fact that the Devils were really not very much better than the teams they were facing.

Major Reason #4: Bad luck. The Devils haven't had one of these series where they've shot like 15% since they played the Rangers in 06.

Minor Reason #1: Last year, it seemed like some of the players quit. This was not a problem in any previous year.

We're a very streaky team. If you could graph our wins and losses throughout the season I'm sure it would look like a wave. Some days we come ready to play, some days we don't. This team has to get up for every game which I see as the main problem.

this is true of every single NHL team

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Perhaps I should clarify: The Devils are very streaky in their intensity of play. If they were competitive in most of their outings and lost some then that's one thing but their intensity level is all over the map.

this isn't true either, it just looks that way because you watch most devils games and you don't watch most games of other teams.

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I have Center Ice and I watch at least one game per day and 2 or 3 per day on weekends.

you're not watching them with the same interest, though. when you watch devils games, do you watch what the devils are doing, or what the other team is doing? much of the commentary here doesn't even seem to acknowledge that there's another team out on the ice. so, presumably you are not watching the game this way when you are watching a random game on center ice - you're watching both teams.

the other issue is that you're not watching the same team each game when you watch games on center ice, so it's much harder to comment on the intensity of their games as a whole when you're only catching snapshots of their season.

chicago was the best team in the league and even it only outshot the other team 3 to 2 at even strength. there's going to be times when teams are on their heels, and it's not 'effort' and 'intensity' that's the problem, it's that the NHL is an insanely high level sport and most of the teams are evenly matched.

Edited by Triumph
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I don't know if you're kidding or not, but a lot of us get really superstitious about that sort of thing in the playoffs. It's almost comical reading some of the threads and seeing people talk about their superstitions.

I still blame myself for 2007. I had a job interview and shaved my patchy playoff beard. The Devils needed my patchy playoff beard.

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Several have mentioned my point concerning the mismanagement of the AHL affiliate, which was GM'ed by Chris Lamoriello for several seasons. Also some have asked for me to expand on this matter.

BTW- I can't prove this, but I believe it's Lou that calls in the AHL Devils, just as i believe he micromanages and overrides the Head Coach on the NHL club.

I believe:

That David Clarkson and Nic Bergfors should have been called up before they were, and once called up, should have stayed. The growth of these two was stunted by Lou, who preferred Dobermans to young talent who could net 10-15 goals.

Rod Pelley also was yo-yo'd up and down, and was mostly forgotten last season.

That Tim Sestito earned a spot here last season.

That Petr Vrana had potential and it was never developed. Vrana has not had a stellar career since, but again I think it's due to his experience in Lowell and New Jersey.

That Lou failed to sign Lowell's leading scorer, Chris Minard, to a two-way contract because Minard lost confidence in the organization to promote him to the NHL level. Minard has been playing for several AHL affiliates, and even though he didn't climb the NHL depth chart, he has been a big contributor to the AHL affiliates. Lou lost his best AHL scorer because he didn't think he would get a chance at the NHL level. How many more AHL players feel this way about the Devils?

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Several have mentioned my point concerning the mismanagement of the AHL affiliate, which was GM'ed by Chris Lamoriello for several seasons. Also some have asked for me to expand on this matter.

BTW- I can't prove this, but I believe it's Lou that calls in the AHL Devils, just as i believe he micromanages and overrides the Head Coach on the NHL club.

That David Clarkson and Nic Bergfors should have been called up before they were, and once called up, should have stayed. The growth of these two was stunted by Lou, who preferred Dobermans to young talent who could net 10-15 goals.

bergfors's growth was stunted? he was doing nothing in albany or lowell until his final season there, and he's already out of favor in atlanta. he'll probably be a good player, but let's not call his AHL seasons anything besides what they were - underwhelming. clarkson they wanted to have up in 2006-07 but they couldn't afford him until the end of the season, so there i guess i will agree with you, although i don't think some irreparable harm has been done to his career.

Rod Pelley also was yo-yo'd up and down, and was mostly forgotten last season.

pelley wasn't a particularly good player at the AHL level either, and he's scored 4 NHL goals. he was overmatched last season at center. this year he's playing better, but he's probably a 4th line player. he's been yanked around because he hasn't been good, and that's what happens to not-good players.

That Tim Sestito earned a spot here last season.

when did he do this? sestito was/is shaky on the puck and is a depth player and nothing more. he's passed through waivers at least once and probably more than once - why aren't other teams real interested in this guy?

That Petr Vrana had potential and it was never developed. Vrana has not had a stellar career since, but again I think it's due to his experience in Lowell and New Jersey.

vrana had some potential but he was overmatched in the NHL, they sent him down, he got hurt, and left the organization. he's done nothing since and i'd be surprised if he played hockey in north america again. sometimes prospects don't work out, and it's not always the fault of the organization when they don't.

That Lou failed to sign Lowell's leading scorer, Chris Minard, to a two-way contract because Minard lost confidence in the organization to promote him to the NHL level. Minard has been playing for several AHL affiliates, and even though he didn't climb the NHL depth chart, he has been a big contributor to the AHL affiliates. Lou lost his best AHL scorer because he didn't think he would get a chance at the NHL level. How many more AHL players feel this way about the Devils?

who cares? first of all, the devils sign undrafted free agents every year, so those guys must not agree with chris minard. second, chris minard was probably right - the devils wouldn't promote him to the NHL. the reason is because he's not capable of playing in the NHL, which has been subsequently shown. he's been a 4th line plugger who gets no minutes - he's not a scoreline player in the NHL, or even close to one. unless you're related to chris minard, this is a ridiculously tiny issue. the devils have shown themselves to go outside the box and have promoted lots of undrafted players into the NHL, so it's not like they have a problem with this philosophically.

lou runs the minor leagues a certain way, and it's easy to not like him for doing so, especially if you live in a city where his team is. he's not going to lard the team down with AHL All-Star types so the team can go to the playoffs. it's going to be guys he thinks are prospects, and 1 or 2 AHL All-Star types. still, he's got a pretty good track record of developing talent that other people have dismissed - taormina's the latest in a long line of guys who've come from nowhere to be possible contributors to the Devils' success.

Edited by Triumph
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So, are we taking on water yet? After all, I believe we are currently the WORST team in the league.... so the optimists can argue that it can't get worse. WOOHOO!

I've waited awhile to see if we'd show any signs of turning around and except for one good game, we look miserable. People can call me a "Lou-hater" (pure, unadulterated rubbish; I've defended him in the past; the late '90s for instance), a fair weather fan (this one is particularly laughable since I was rooting for the Devils since before many of you were born... and I've got the clippings from the early to mid 80s to prove it), or just wrong, but the fact is that this team is trending downward. That leaves two options:

1. Leave Lou in charge and hope that he rights the ship; the ship that HE has apparently run aground.

2. Find someone new and more flexible to save the franchise before we require a complete overhaul.

We might be past avoiding the need for a complete overhaul, however, and THAT is largely because of blind obedience; blind obedience to Marty when he should be playing 60 games instead of 70+, blind obedience to Lou because no one has been willing to question any of his moves, not to mention I am sure there are many other issue.

One last point, it has been argued that Chris would not make a good GM because of management of the minor leagues affiliates. It has also been argued that, in recent years, the Devils minor league affiliates have started to turn out some great talent like Zajac. I find it interesting that the "Lou-lovers" give Chris no credit for this even though it is him domain, but he gets all of the blame for whatever goes wrong; conversely, Lou gets all of the credit and none of the blame.

In my field, history, there are wonderful examples of this and they are all scary: Tsarist and Communist Russia (called the Father Tsar concept; the Father must be all good while his underlings do all bad), Fascist Germany and Italy, Bourbon France, etc. All of these rely on the Great Leader concept whereby the theoretically all-knowing leader does right by his people, but the things that go wrong happen because of untrustworthy, malevolent underlings not doing their jobs... and if this all-knowing father knew of these wrongs he would make it all right again. As an historian, I find it genuinely and sincerely scary when people treat a friggin' hockey GM like a world leader/deity worthy of reverence. He's just a guy who's been really good at his job, and IMHO he isn't doing as good a job any longer.

Also, as to the orignal post. the title of the post is misleading. If you want fans true opinion, try not having a negative title to the post.

Erm, do you actually know what a 'no confidence' vote is? There is no such thing as a 'lotsa confidence' vote. A 'no confidence' vote is a request to test the validity of the ongoing 'rule' of a party in a parliamentary system. IOW, it is a request for a vote to see if the person in charge should stay in charge. This is done during a period when a regularly scheduled vote is not scheduled to take place; again, IOW, it is a test as to the popularity of the ruling party when there is no other method to change the ruling party's policies.

So no, my title is not misleading and it is not negative. In fact, I used the term EXACTLY as it is meant to be used from time immemorial. What is misleading and negative is your interpretation.

BTW, as to bashing HOFs: I maintain that HOF status has NOTHING to do with ascertaining their current value to the team. If that were true, then why don't we get rid of most of the scrubs we've currently got on the roster and pick up some of those awesome HOFers who are available? Gretzky is available, Gordie Howe, and tons more. And Marty still needs a top notch backup, so I'd vote for Terry Sawchuck. Wow, what a one-two punch we'd have in goal. I mean, Terry might really 'stink it up' for some games, his reflexes might seem sort of 'dead' but I'm sure he'll loosen up. Right? After all, he's a HOF goaltender!

Edited by AEWHistory
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You could let go of Lou but there's not much a new GM can do with a team that's capped out and has a plethora of overpaid players with NTC clauses.

If it is your opinion that the team is absolutely horrible and that it is impossible for any GM to fix it for many, many years... then why not go watch some other sport for a few years? Just take a break from following the Devils and go watch basketball or something? If you firmly believe that it is hopeless, then wouldn't logic suggest that you should do something else with your time? Unless you are a masochist, in which case, bully for you.

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For countIess years, I was always a "In Lou We Trust" guy, but now I'm starting to think, hey, all good things eventually do come to an end at some point. (See any great GM in any pro sport throughout history.)

And just as no Devils player is above the logo, neither is the GM.

If it is determined that he is not getting the job done, then it might be time to look elsewhere.

Evaluate Lou at the end of the year. (I never thought I would think that.)

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I think the owner just has to let Lou run the team again and not force bad decisions on him...AGAIN.

But its going to be several years of poor teams before Lou can rebuild this franchise.

Except that the Kovy contract is one of the better ones we have. Lou is responsible for the overpayment of Rolston, Clarkson, Tallinder, White, Salvador, Hedberg and the cap space were still spending on Pandolfo.

It's been a great run with Lou and he deserves some time to fix this mess, which I will support but based on his total mismanagement of the salary cap and inability to ice a balanced team in years, I've lost confidence that he will actually be able to fix this mess. The one thing I absolutely do not what to see is the GM spot passed right to his son. There are plenty of more qualified people out there that we don't need to make a legacy hire.

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One last point, it has been argued that Chris would not make a good GM because of management of the minor leagues affiliates. It has also been argued that, in recent years, the Devils minor league affiliates have started to turn out some great talent like Zajac. I find it interesting that the "Lou-lovers" give Chris no credit for this even though it is him domain, but he gets all of the blame for whatever goes wrong; conversely, Lou gets all of the credit and none of the blame.

Part of that is because Zajac is a product of UND. I don't think he played more than a few games in Lowell.

We've developed some decent role players but other than Parise there hasn't been much top end talent developed down there. I know Chris hasn't had a lot of top picks come through during his time but did guys like Bergfors, Corrente, Vasyunov, Zharkov & Vrana develop any better than they would have in any other system? Maybe Paul Martin but I dont remember if he spent any time in the AHL.

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