GDT - 12/23/10 - NYI@NJD

[Colin226]

Here's basically what I saw.. Period 1 - the team looked like they did under JMac.. Periods 2 + 3 - Looked much better and showed they can improve

Whatever, no use in getting mad at this point.. Let's just hope for improvements and enjoy it whens things actually go well

[sirbutlust]

sorry, even drunk that was a huge rant taht was poorly put together. hopefully my point if any got through

[maxpower]

So that excuses Marty for not being able to make a save?

NINE saves the entire game. Just want that to sink in for ya for a little while. He had 11 save opportunities the entire game.

The Carte Blanche crew is out in full effect. What's next a lifetime appointment to the PP for Brian Rolston because he was on the '95 Cup Team?

which save should he have made? tell me person who can't argue this point because he's got nothing.

the first one where there was a horrendous turnover and everyone got gapped, or the second one where five guys stood around with thumbs up their asses? I can't tell you how many times I've seen that one this year regardless of who the goalie is.

oh I know, it's the one where he got a player knocked into him and the other guy didn't backcheck.

the guy is fvcking 38 years old, it would help if someone out there had a clue how to play defensive hockey. but fvck it, you could put Ryan Miller out there and this team would get lit up early and often.

no one understands how well our goaltending is playing in the games we won. Moose's run, which was ridiculous, was also unsustainable. we played just as sh!tty defensively in those games as usual.

it would be nice if some stupid people wouldn't call this game out on the goalie when they were down 3-0 after one and that period was an absolutely embarassment and a crime against the sport of hockey.

[Sickman]

You basically used a whole bunch of words to just eventually prove and agree to my original point. Brodeur has looked putrid in three straight games. He was terrible against the Thrashers. I don't know what game you were watching.

And Marty looked shaky at times down the stretch the end of last year with some soft goals being allowed. Marty has shown the occasional flashes and strings of games the past few years, but watching him over the past five years, there is a clear decline in the quality and consistency of his play. It is unmistakeable and undeniable. People can throw out whatever stats they want, the videotape as they say, that does not lie.

And I think Hedberg is pretty bad as well. I don't like him and never wanted him signed. Another dumb overpay by Lou, especially when there was virtually nobody after him except Atlanta who wanted to keep him as a backup because he became a fan favorite and they needed some attendance help. He's almost as old as Brodeur. I only advocate playing him because a message needs to be sent to Brodeur.

I've been a colossal Brodeur fan since the day he was drafted and have a ton of his memorabilia. As a fan of his, it hurts. But I can't watch him like this and not acknowledge reality.

I proved your point how? Again, is Martin Brodeur as good as he was 5 years ago? No. But I have never said that he was and I'm not expecting him to be either. Of course he is declining, he is on the downside of his career. But it's no where near the level that you guys are claiming. Seriously, listen to yourselves for just a minute. It has gotten to the point where EVERY SINGLE GOAL that Brodeur gives up is a bad goal. I cant remember the last time he allowed a good goal based on this boards standards. Is our defense that damn good that they're denying any strong scoring opportunities? What am I saying that is so off base to you? It's only normal to expect him to slow down a bit, but he is made out to be a cripple on this board. And fwiw, as far as his decline is concerned, in the last 5 years he has been nominated for 4 Vezinas and has won 2 of them while posting nearly 50 wins twice. It's greatly exaggerated.

All I have been saying from the very beginning of this mess is that judging Brodeur with this team in front of him is not fair. Judging any goalie wouldn't be fair. Do we not agree that this team has been an absolutely wretched this year? It's frightening to see how little they have scored. How can you possibly win if you cant score goals?

My main issue is that people are setting aside his entire body of work, which has been pretty damn consistent, and basing his poorest season totally on eroding skills. I don't think this is fair or accurate and I see it as a giant slap in the face to someone who was a major part of putting this team on the damn map in the first place. There is no fall from grace right now without the original contributions of #30. But now you get some stupid avatars with "retire" in them and a resident ringleader for all this garbage.

It doesn't hurt me to see Marty struggle. He's part of the "team" and it bothers me to see them struggle collectively. What really disappoints me is to see legends of this franchise like Lou and Marty get thrown under the bus during the one time sh!t has truly hit the fan for this franchise since they have both been here. I'd day 80% of this board knows nothing but winning and the attitude now is fvck everyone who brought you to the dance in the first place. Call me a fan boy or whatever you want, but I'm just tired of reading how little faith people have in those who have proven themselves over and over and over and over and over again. 600+ wins over 15 season compared to 20 or so rough games on a historically bad team. I don't give a sh!t if Marty Brodeur is 110 years old, a little perspective is needed here.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Sickman

[maxpower]

I proved your point how? Again, is Martin Brodeur as good as he was 5 years ago? No. But I have never said that he was and I'm not expecting him to be either. Of course he is declining, he is on the downside of his career. But it's no where near the level that you guys are claiming. Seriously, listen to yourselves for just a minute. It has gotten to the point where EVERY SINGLE GOAL that Brodeur gives up is a bad goal. I cant remember the last time he allowed a good goal based on this boards standards. Is our defense that damn good that they're denying any strong scoring opportunities? What am I saying that is so off base to you? It's only normal to expect him to slow down a bit, but he is made out to be a cripple on this board. And fwiw, as far as his decline is concerned, in the last 5 years he has been nominated for 4 Vezinas and has won 2 of them while posting nearly 50 wins twice.

All I have been saying from the very beginning of this mess is that judging Brodeur with this team in front of him is not fair. Judging any goalie wouldn't be fair. Do we not agree that this team has been an absolutely wretched this year? It's frightening to see how little they have scored. How can you possibly win if you cant score goals?

My main issue is that people are setting aside his entire body of work, which has been pretty damn consistent, and basing his poorest season totally on eroding skills. I don't think this is fair or accurate and I see it as a giant slap in the face to someone who was a major part of putting this team on the damn map in the first place. There is no fall from grace right now without the original contributions of #30. But now you get some stupid avatars with "retire" in them and a resident ringleader for all this garbage.

It doesn't hurt me to see Marty struggle. He's part of the "team" and it bothers me to see them struggle collectively. What really disappoints me is to see legends of this franchise like Lou and Marty get thrown under the bus during the one time sh!t has truly hit the fan for this franchise since they have both been here. I'd day 80% of this board knows nothing but winning and the attitude now is fvck everyone who brought you to the dance in the first place. Call me a fan boy or whatever you want, but I'm just tired of reading how little faith people have in those who have proven themselves over and over and over and over and over again. 600+ wins over 15 season compared to 20 or so rough games on a historically bad team. I don't give a sh!t if Marty Brodeur is 110 years old, a little perspective is needed here.

spoiled 20 something Yankees-like fans. they need to go. but chant Kovy, Kovy, Kovy after his next goal a week from now.

have a little appreciation, that's all I ask. he gives up one bad goal and the crowd goes into mocking mode. this is what signaled my snapping at the game and basically screaming at a section.

Devils fans suck. remember when Weekes got hurt and they cheered him getting pulled out of the game?

[NJDevs4978]

Devils fans suck. remember when Weekes got hurt and they cheered him getting pulled out of the game?

Ugh, I'd forgotten about that one. I was at that game too.

God, this is gonna be a LONG two weeks with five more home games, well four plus the MSG+2 representation of Ranger fans next week.

Edited December 24, 2010 by NJDevs4978

[maxpower]

Ugh, I'd forgotten about that one. I was at that game too.

God, this is gonna be a LONG two weeks with five more home games, well four plus the MSG+2 representation of Ranger fans next week.

Yeah, that was just totally sad. same people will hunt him down to sign their sh!t to put up on ebay, though.

or trample old people to buy mystery pucks

[njd3b1ink]

regardless of how bad the D is, Marty needs to give the team around him a change to win and he has not done that. 3,4, and 5 were all soft tonight. That was a huge rebound he gave tavares of a nothing shot. He didnt challenge at all on the 4th and fell into the net. And the 5th he should have had also. Yes it was a bullet but he was done before the shot was even taken. Hes guessing more than reacting out there, which is not what you want your goalie to be doing.

[maxpower]

he fell into the net because Kovalchuk hit him with Josh Bailey. full marks for him making an effort, but the end result wasn't much better than the 2-0 that otherwise would have taken place

[NJDevs4978]

If we had a scoring chance in the first period, you'll have to show me video proof.

They had one with like a minute to go in the period and I remember saying to my friend, wow their first real good chance came after nineteen minutes. I think we were outshot 8-3 at one point, meaning we outshot them 32-6 the rest of the game...and our margin of defeat only increased

[pattyelias]

left after 2nd period and went to fornos. great decision.

[MantaRay]

I can't believe there are morons who "boo" when Kovalchuk gets announced in the starting lineup.

Was Kovy scratched? That's how invisible he was today. There was nothing memorable about his play tonight,

Don't blame the fans for expressing the same thing you stated sentences later in your diatribe.

Edited December 24, 2010 by MantaRay

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Time to talk. If you listen, I'll like you forever.

I'm a college student; in the past 2 weeks I've been home I have spent over $150 on the Devils and train fare, an extra $60 on food, and $25 on merch. I haven't seen a win. The players in warmup looked like they were either a) leading the NHL or b) high on helium. All they did was fool around, take lazy shots at the net, joke with eachother, and half-heartedly take weak shots at the net. The whole team was off the ice with 47.15 seconds left in warmup, at which point the Islanders still had almost their entire squad roaring around the net. I know, it's warmups and these guys are professionals. But when you're off to the worst record in franchise history, skate with a little more heart. I'm sorry, but rip em in there until the buzzer, skate like you mean it, put your game faces on. And, for God's sake, why the hell wasn't Lemaire out there watching the troops?

On to the game. Oh, the game. First of all, I can't believe there are morons who "boo" when Kovalchuk gets announced in the starting lineup. Piss off. But the fans weren't even bad today, the team looked uninterested from the first puck drop. If we had a scoring chance in the first period, you'll have to show me video proof. Yeah, we had 31 shots... but about two of them may have been in the outer realms of something considered a quality shot. SPEAKING of quality shots: oh, hey Marty. Not all of the goals were on you, sure, but if they have 13 shots on net and 5 find the twine, you're getting the finger in your face. Right now, I see nothing that he brings to the table that Jeff Frazee wouldn't; why not give the kid a shot? The faster #30 retires, the better off this franchise is going to be. It's a shame, I love and respect the hell out of him, but he's more washed up than Rolston is. OH, speaking of Rolston now! The man couldn't hit water if he jumped out of a boat. Eat the 5m of salary on the cap, I don't give a fvck, but the guy is a liability on the ice. He seems like a decent guy and all, but holy hell he is one piece of sh!t hockey player.

White had a decent game, so did Elias. Was Kovy scratched? That's how invisible he was today. There was nothing memorable about his play tonight, which is a damn shame because I'm probably one of the biggest Kovalchuk apologists around.

Also: if it was a lack of talent, I wouldn't be this upset. It's clearly a lack of effort. I can't deal with a lack of effort.

Hell, it's not the losing that gets to me; it's seeing what a fall from grace this franchise has become. Mike Millbury was on NHL Live talking about the Bruins, and, when asked about what position Boston was in, he said "They're allright, you know. They're not like Pitt or Philly, but then again they definitely aren't the Devils." And that stung; it sounded so harsh but it was so true. The amount of times last year we said "Well, at least we're not edmonton" or "hey, at least we aren't the islanders"... now we're the team people are talking about. And you know, the Devils are like my little brother: I can sh!t-talk him all I want, but if someone else does? Oh hell no. So hearing that and realizing that he was justified in saying that? I can't take it. I don't care what player it takes away from us in the draft: I can't be the worst team in the league. I can't. Finish 9th. Finish 10th. Hell, finish 14th in the conference. Just, please, for the sake of all things holy, don't finish last. And you know what? I love this team. I love this team so much. And, with my limited budget, I'm still dropping $80 a pop to see them take on the Rangers. And I'm still rejecting family and friends to see them on New Years. I'll still be in Philly in January, wearing black and red and screaming my heart out. Because a season like this shows me how much I really do love the Devils. It's easy to root for a team that's the best. And for the first time in my lifetime, we aren't that team. But I ain't going nowhere.

I'm going to take a break from posting for a little while; it seems like I've done a lot more harm than good. So, happy holidays everyone. Let's go Devils.

You're a college student, which means you're not old enough to remember any bad days regarding the Devils. They enjoyed a 20-year stretch of prosperity that not many franchises have equalled...only the Red Wings can claim to have been more consistent and won more championships over that same period, but in the pre-cap era they also spent a whole lot more money...not knocking them for doing so, or downplaying what the Red Wings have done in comparison to the Devils.

For the first time in your Devil fan life, you're experiencing the other side of being a hockey fan, the unpleasant part. Unfortunately, it's the bad part that almost every sports fan is destined to experience at some point...it wasn't terribly long ago that elite teams were saying "Well, at least we're not the Flyers or Penguins." I remember when the Red Wings were called the Dead Things, and hadn't won a Cup since 1955. Let's face it, when the Devils were an elite team we enjoyed some of that success at the expense of other teams' fanbases...most notably the Rangers. Now it's our turn to hear it.

As for "At least we're not Edmonton" or "at least we're not the Islanders" I remember back in the 80s, before you were born, that those teams were the best of the best by a country mile...several cups for each franchise. Just goes to show that even the most successful franchises can find themselves finding out how the other half lives. Sadly, it's clearly the Devils' turn right now.

[Vic Rattlehead18]

I forgot to mention last night. Don't blame langenbrunner for that first goal. White called for the pass and there looked to be enough room for it. That player just had a long stick

[MantaRay]

You're a college student, which means you're not old enough to remember any bad days regarding the Devils. They enjoyed a 20-year stretch of prosperity that not many franchises have equalled...only the Red Wings can claim to have been more consistent and won more championships over that same period, but in the pre-cap era they also spent a whole lot more money...not knocking them for doing so, or downplaying what the Red Wings have done in comparison to the Devils.

For the first time in your Devil fan life, you're experiencing the other side of being a hockey fan, the unpleasant part. Unfortunately, it's the bad part that almost every sports fan is destined to experience at some point...it wasn't terribly long ago that elite teams were saying "Well, at least we're not the Flyers or Penguins." I remember when the Red Wings were called the Dead Things, and hadn't won a Cup since 1955. Let's face it, when the Devils were an elite team we enjoyed some of that success at the expense of other teams' fanbases...most notably the Rangers. Now it's our turn to hear it.

As for "At least we're not Edmonton" or "at least we're not the Islanders" I remember back in the 80s, before you were born, that those teams were the best of the best by a country mile...several cups for each franchise. Just goes to show that even the most successful franchises can find themselves finding out how the other half lives. Sadly, it's clearly the Devils' turn right now.

Dead on. JVB has made us into the Islanders.

[overtime98]

At least the devils stopped the music for my baumann chant.....

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Dead on. JVB has made us into the Islanders.

In all fairness, I think this a little harsh. When everything goes to sh!t it's natural to want to point the blame at someone, but I think this season is a perfect storm kind of thing, where everything that can go wrong did go wrong, and some of it was caused by good intentions.

When you've got a good thing going, as the Devils did for a long, long time, the price to keep it going, especially in a salary cap era, tends to get steeper. In the NHL, that means handing out NTCs and NMCs...sure, we might hate being stuck with these now, but at the time we were thrilled that guys like Elias weren't leaving. It means the farm starts to get a little thin as youth is traded for established help, so instead of being able to build from within, guys like Volchenkov and Tallinder have to be signed.

I think Lou's biggest strength, once he had a d-corp and a goalie that he could rely on for so many seaons, was finding unheralded guys to supplement his core...the Rafalskis, the Maddens, etc. Unfortunately, guys like Greene and Clarkson haven't been nearly as good as his previous finds, so I think Lou, for the first time in his GM career, decided What the hell, I might as well go against my gut, see what happens and hope for the best...hence the reason Ilya was re-signed at insane money and Volchenkov and Tallinder were signed to long-term deals. And even though none of the "bring back a former player" moves have paid any dividends in recent years, Lou couldn't resist going back to the former Devil well once again to reacquire Arnott. But at the price he was brought back here I can understand why he did it.

Anyway, JVB hasn't sat back and let a complete buffoon like Mike Milbury wreck his team, so I can't make the Islander comparison. I think JVB has the best intentions at heart. I think Lou has the best intentions at heart. But I think Lou, with JVB's backing, has tried so hard to keep a dying thing going that there simply are no more short-term solutions...I feel that everyone from JVB to Lou to the players to the fans made the same mistake...the strong regular-season records had us all thinking that the on-ice product was much better than it really was, that they were only a player or two away, when we really should have focused harder on the recent playoff follies.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Quinn01]

In all fairness, I think this a little harsh. When everything goes to sh!t it's natural to want to point the blame at someone, but I think this season is a perfect storm kind of thing, where everything that can go wrong did go wrong, and some of it was caused by good intentions.

When you've got a good thing going, as the Devils did for a long, long time, the price to keep it going, especially in a salary cap era, tends to get steeper. In the NHL, that means handing out NTCs and NMCs...sure, we might hate being stuck with these now, but at the time we were thrilled that guys like Elias weren't leaving. It means the farm starts to get a little thin as youth is traded for established help, so instead of being able to build from within, guys like Volchenkov and Tallinder have to be signed.

I think Lou's biggest strength, once he had a d-corp and a goalie that he could rely on for so many seaons, was finding unheralded guys to supplement his core...the Rafalskis, the Maddens, etc. Unfortunately, guys like Greene and Clarkson haven't been nearly as good as his previous finds, so I think Lou, for the first time in his GM career, decided What the hell, I might as well go against my gut, see what happens and hope for the best...hence the reason Ilya was re-signed at insane money and Volchenkov and Tallinder were signed to long-term deals. And even though none of the "bring back a former player" moves have paid any dividends in recent years, Lou couldn't resist going back to the former Devil well once again to reacquire Arnott. But at the price he was brought back here I can understand why he did it.

Anyway, JVB hasn't sat back and let a complete buffoon like Mike Milbury wreck his team, so I can't make the Islander comparison. I think JVB has the best intentions at heart. I think Lou has the best intentions at heart. But I think Lou, with JVB's backing, has tried so hard to keep a dying thing going that there simply are no more short-term solutions...I feel that everyone from JVB to Lou to the players to the fans made the same mistake...the strong regular-season records had us all thinking that the on-ice product was much better than it really was, that they were only a player or two away, when we really should have focused harder on the recent playoff follies.

I agree with most of what you said. I understand the flaming at Greene but he really is a good player. He works hard. Last season he was great as far as D goes. This season, its hard for any specific player to stand out and have a great game. In order for your lines to work you need all guys working together and working well....none of the lines have all three guys working together. Referring to our organization as the next islanders is a sticky situation. After one season everyone is ready to dump sh!t on the team and its organization and the higher ups? Come on, get real. The frustration from the way the season is going doesnt just directly effect the players and the coaches. It effects everyone within the organization, all the people you dont see every day. JVB must be pulling his hair out. I would not want to be an owner either.

In all honesty, how often does bringing back old talent pay off? I still have yet to see it really pay off in the Devils case (i.e Holik, Shanahan, Rolston...etc)

[Sickman]

In all fairness, I think this a little harsh. When everything goes to sh!t it's natural to want to point the blame at someone, but I think this season is a perfect storm kind of thing, where everything that can go wrong did go wrong, and some of it was caused by good intentions.

When you've got a good thing going, as the Devils did for a long, long time, the price to keep it going, especially in a salary cap era, tends to get steeper. In the NHL, that means handing out NTCs and NMCs...sure, we might hate being stuck with these now, but at the time we were thrilled that guys like Elias weren't leaving. It means the farm starts to get a little thin as youth is traded for established help, so instead of being able to build from within, guys like Volchenkov and Tallinder have to be signed.

I think Lou's biggest strength, once he had a d-corp and a goalie that he could rely on for so many seaons, was finding unheralded guys to supplement his core...the Rafalskis, the Maddens, etc. Unfortunately, guys like Greene and Clarkson haven't been nearly as good as his previous finds, so I think Lou, for the first time in his GM career, decided What the hell, I might as well go against my gut, see what happens and hope for the best...hence the reason Ilya was re-signed at insane money and Volchenkov and Tallinder were signed to long-term deals. And even though none of the "bring back a former player" moves have paid any dividends in recent years, Lou couldn't resist going back to the former Devil well once again to reacquire Arnott. But at the price he was brought back here I can understand why he did it.

Anyway, JVB hasn't sat back and let a complete buffoon like Mike Milbury wreck his team, so I can't make the Islander comparison. I think JVB has the best intentions at heart. I think Lou has the best intentions at heart. But I think Lou, with JVB's backing, has tried so hard to keep a dying thing going that there simply are no more short-term solutions...I feel that everyone from JVB to Lou to the players to the fans made the same mistake...the strong regular-season records had us all thinking that the on-ice product was much better than it really was, that they were only a player or two away, when we really should have focused harder on the recent playoff follies.

Well said sir.

[95Crash]

In all fairness, I think this a little harsh. When everything goes to sh!t it's natural to want to point the blame at someone, but I think this season is a perfect storm kind of thing, where everything that can go wrong did go wrong, and some of it was caused by good intentions.

When you've got a good thing going, as the Devils did for a long, long time, the price to keep it going, especially in a salary cap era, tends to get steeper. In the NHL, that means handing out NTCs and NMCs...sure, we might hate being stuck with these now, but at the time we were thrilled that guys like Elias weren't leaving. It means the farm starts to get a little thin as youth is traded for established help, so instead of being able to build from within, guys like Volchenkov and Tallinder have to be signed.

I think Lou's biggest strength, once he had a d-corp and a goalie that he could rely on for so many seaons, was finding unheralded guys to supplement his core...the Rafalskis, the Maddens, etc. Unfortunately, guys like Greene and Clarkson haven't been nearly as good as his previous finds, so I think Lou, for the first time in his GM career, decided What the hell, I might as well go against my gut, see what happens and hope for the best...hence the reason Ilya was re-signed at insane money and Volchenkov and Tallinder were signed to long-term deals. And even though none of the "bring back a former player" moves have paid any dividends in recent years, Lou couldn't resist going back to the former Devil well once again to reacquire Arnott. But at the price he was brought back here I can understand why he did it.

Anyway, JVB hasn't sat back and let a complete buffoon like Mike Milbury wreck his team, so I can't make the Islander comparison. I think JVB has the best intentions at heart. I think Lou has the best intentions at heart. But I think Lou, with JVB's backing, has tried so hard to keep a dying thing going that there simply are no more short-term solutions...I feel that everyone from JVB to Lou to the players to the fans made the same mistake...the strong regular-season records had us all thinking that the on-ice product was much better than it really was, that they were only a player or two away, when we really should have focused harder on the recent playoff follies.

Nice summation of the Devils' mess of a situation. I agree with most everything you wrote except for maybe the bolded part. I think there are a plenty of fans, especially on this board, who sensed something has been amiss for a few years now.

I'm not saying anyone had all the answers that could've solved the team's problems, just that many could see something wasn't right.