thefiestygoat Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 not moving hedberg unless the devils get a 3rd round pick + a goalie back. I don't really see the harm in moving Hedberg if they can get a draft pick for him. Sure it hurts the depth for this year but the year is almost done. If the team had a realistic chance at the playoffs I wouldn't move him but I think at this point you sell for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 At least Arnott's won a Cup though, so on the one hand I'm not as into this notion of trading him to a contender to let him have a shot to win...on the other hand he really is expendable, streak or no streak. I mean he has four goals since early December, he's not exactly a key contributor anymore. If we can get a second round pick for him that should be the easiest choice both Lou and Arnott can make. It sounds like the only issue is what teams are actually asking about him, as Steve and Chico were saying on the postgame there really isn't a lot of 'sure' playoff teams in the West and only a few in the East. The other guys would be harder to trade cause that really would be waving the white flag, getting rid of Greene and putting another guy in who can't play or getting rid of Hedberg and having no safety valve for Brodeur getting hurt again. He's been playing with two rookies and his minutes have dropped under Lemaire. He's only expendable for a variety of reasons, some of which make him valuable to teams wanting him (UFA, veteran, etc.). As with Greene, he's not a core piece moving forward and probably not coming back. With the price on defensemen indicating a possible good return, it would be foolish not to consider a good package. I'd move him now that his value has been rehabilitated from the brutal first 1/3 of the season under MacLean. Fayne/Tallinder and Volch/White are the top two pairs anyway. Greene's been interchanged with a few partners, but he's largely been getting less minutes and Fayne's emergence means Greene may not be brought back anyway next year, depending on Taormina's status. Urbom is probably getting a shot next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I don't really see the harm in moving Hedberg if they can get a draft pick for him. Sure it hurts the depth for this year but the year is almost done. If the team had a realistic chance at the playoffs I wouldn't move him but I think at this point you sell for the future. There is likely no market for Hedberg cause goalies have become so devalued. So basically you want to sell him at five cents on the dollar just to get five cents back. There's more point to keeping him for the last twenty games than really getting no tangible asset back for him. He's been playing with two rookies and his minutes have dropped under Lemaire. He's only expendable for a variety of reasons, some of which make him valuable to teams wanting him (UFA, veteran, etc.). He still has about .33 points a game which is dreadful and his production was declining last year too, when he didn't have two rookies on his line. Really he isn't even worth a second-rounder at this point if you were being honest but he'll probably get that just casuse it's deadline day and there are few centers on the market. Edited February 28, 2011 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I agree on Hedberg. A premium needs to be set there. As for Arnott, I'm not annoyed. He's taken a lesser role under Lemaire, which isn't surprising and kind of victim to the fact that Zajac and Elias pretty much demand and deserve the greater proportion. He hasn't quit on the team even if he looks like he lags towards the end of shift or in the defensive zone. As much as Zharkov and Tedenby may show a lot of hustle and people were going ga-ga over that, they are both still poor at recognizing and setting up opportunities, which contributes to some of Arnott's diminished production the past few weeks. is that why arnott has stopped skating? he's also played a fair amount with kovalchuk when he's being double-shifted, but i guess kovalchuk is no good at setting up stuff either. arnott's days as a 2nd liner are over. he hasn't quit on the team, but he hasn't played well either. I don't really see the harm in moving Hedberg if they can get a draft pick for him. Sure it hurts the depth for this year but the year is almost done. If the team had a realistic chance at the playoffs I wouldn't move him but I think at this point you sell for the future. the devils have 4 goalies on nhl contracts. frazee just got back - he dressed but did not play today. brodeur has had several injuries this season. even if it's a minor league goalie they get back, they need someone who can potentially be an NHL fill-in. i don't want to see david caruso in an NHL uniform, and that's a distinct possibility if they deal hedberg. Edited February 28, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 They said during the game that Tallon was in the Devils box chatting with Lou. Wonder what they were chatting about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 is that why arnott has stopped skating? he's also played a fair amount with kovalchuk when he's being double-shifted, but i guess kovalchuk is no good at setting up stuff either. arnott's days as a 2nd liner are over. he hasn't quit on the team, but he hasn't played well either. He hasn't seen enough time with Kovalchuk for you to make a statement like that, not at all. Zharkov is a brutal offensive player who is only seeing time because he takes instruction well from Jacques and Tedenby has been getting benched for a reason because of blown assignments and giveaways. Yes, Arnott's gotten old and doesn't skate out all of his shifts. But on the right team, Arnott would be a very nice addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 They said during the game that Tallon was in the Devils box chatting with Lou. Wonder what they were chatting about... Maybe Lou sneaks Marty Reasoner out of their rubble after we deal off Arnott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think the Devils get a 4th for Arnott. Maybe some team gets shut out and desperately throws a 3rd hoping Arnott reverts to his younger days. He has showed nothing for any of the NHL scouts who have watched him. Add that to the fact that any team getting him is picking up a bill of over $1 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 A 4th for Arnott. What's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Maybe Lou sneaks Marty Reasoner out of their rubble after we deal off Arnott I was wondering if Florida might be interested in Greene, since they just traded McCabe. And since Dale Tallon is on a run of stupid trades lately, I'm hoping that's the case and maybe he overpays. Edited February 28, 2011 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 A 4th for Arnott. What's the point? Save $1.125 million. Other than that, maybe do a favour to Jason who wants to be in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think the Devils get a 4th for Arnott. Maybe some team gets shut out and desperately throws a 3rd hoping Arnott reverts to his younger days. He has showed nothing for any of the NHL scouts who have watched him. Add that to the fact that any team getting him is picking up a bill of over $1 million. Probably a little too pessimistic. I think the Devils will get a 3rd and a mid-range prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 the devils have 4 goalies on nhl contracts. frazee just got back - he dressed but did not play today. brodeur has had several injuries this season. even if it's a minor league goalie they get back, they need someone who can potentially be an NHL fill-in. i don't want to see david caruso in an NHL uniform, and that's a distinct possibility if they deal hedberg. Frazee actually made his return today according to the AHL gamesheet but point taken on his health, though I just want to see if he can finish this year in the AHL strong. I understand NJDevs4978 point and I think it's valid - sure the odds are whatever you get for Moose aren't going to amount to anything but maybe you get lucky. Why wouldn't they just promote McKenna (even if he is awful) for the last 20 games if they move Moose? I'd imagine he'd be the top choice. Not that any of this really matters, the real news is going to be what happens with Arnott and Greene tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have nothing against Arnott, but I can think of 2 moments the entire streak -- the pass to Teddy in front of the goal, I think against Carolina, and the Rags dive. He's getting a lot of money, and will probably get more than he's worth. Move him, now that his whole line's getting so little time, he's less important than I thought he was a couple months ago. While we're hoping he doesn't get hurt, Zubs can fulfill a bunch of different roles -- in a pinch, he can be a big, 3rd line center. We obviously don't want to do that, but Arnott is less important than we'd thought. Keep Greene. We're not dead yet, but if we're playing Salmela and Fraser, the top 4 are gonna have to eat minutes, and with White's history of back problems, I'd just as soon keep his minutes down, at least some. Keep the Moose. Not only do we have some hope for the playoffs, even if only a glimmer, but we need a reliable goalie if Marty gets hurt, looking more and more likely lately. Also, as has been said, he's worth more than we're getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think the Devils get a 4th for Arnott. Maybe some team gets shut out and desperately throws a 3rd hoping Arnott reverts to his younger days. He has showed nothing for any of the NHL scouts who have watched him. Add that to the fact that any team getting him is picking up a bill of over $1 million. I really don't think he's played his value down THAT much unless GM's have suddenly gotten smart with deadline shopping...worst-case to me is a third, and that's only cause Arnott's limiting the field with his NTC. But given there are few centers left on the market his value should be artificially inflated just by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 arnott/greene/hedberg to LA for bernier/martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 He hasn't seen enough time with Kovalchuk for you to make a statement like that, not at all. Zharkov is a brutal offensive player who is only seeing time because he takes instruction well from Jacques and Tedenby has been getting benched for a reason because of blown assignments and giveaways. Yes, Arnott's gotten old and doesn't skate out all of his shifts. But on the right team, Arnott would be a very nice addition. according to dobberhockey, at least 10% of kovalchuk's shifts have come with jason arnott. that's going to be a good portion of time with how much kovalchuk plays. zharkov is not a brutal offensive player. he has terrible hands but he has offensive awareness. he had 10 assists last season. and tedenby hasn't been playing - it's been kovalchuk or pelley, generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDEVS1730 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think Lou is gonna keep him. I don't think anyone wants to mess up the chemistry that is going on for them right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 according to dobberhockey, at least 10% of kovalchuk's shifts have come with jason arnott. that's going to be a good portion of time with how much kovalchuk plays. zharkov is not a brutal offensive player. he has terrible hands but he has offensive awareness. he had 10 assists last season. and tedenby hasn't been playing - it's been kovalchuk or pelley, generally. 10% is a weak sample size Tri. And not enough to develop chemistry or understanding of where your linemates are or what they're predisposed to doing. People forget how much Kovy struggled at times with Zubrus and Zajac before finally settling in with Zajac as his center. Your points on Arnott were fair enough alone. I disagree on Zharkov. He looks like a 4th liner for a couple years then out of the league. I like the kid and appreciate the effort, but he has bad hands and takes poor positions when he has the puck, in addition to being allergic to finding a good shot for himself. If you can't score as a forward, you're pretty much useless unless you bring another skillset. Zharkov's only way to stay in this league is to become a plus-penalty killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Forget chemistry. Arnott is barely doing anything out there, as witnessed by the overall ineffectiveness of the 3rd line for quite a while. He had a good start to the season, but he completely quit as soon as we dug our hole, and at this point his comments clearly indicate that he doesn't care about the team, and only about himself winning another Cup. I think if we ditch him, it will actually be better for the team's mentality and we can put someone else on that 3rd line that might be a good fit with Josefson and Tedenby. Getting something in return for Arnott would be an added bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't see how any honest scout would want him. He's toast. Toastier than Shanny in 2009, and that's pretty toasty. Actually, Shanny chipped in a bit, so that's insulting Shanny. I pretty much want him out of the way at this point, he's just here for the sake of being here. Find that picture from one of Kovalchuk's goals (Rangers game, I think), and look at everyone on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) max: no, shanahan was really, really bad. arnott is not there yet, even though it might appear so. cold: you don't think playing 10% of your ES ice time with another player is significant? that's a lot of ice time. also zharkov is a much better player than you give him credit for being. Edited February 28, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I feel like Shanny accomplished something occasionally. Arnott is in a really, really long dry spell, and his defense plays remind me alot of Shanny, just flailing with the stick because he has no foot speed. I'm hoping someone buys him on rep, but if they've been scouting him more than just confirming his existance, it's possible Lou's phone might not even ring for Arnie tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I feel like Shanny accomplished something occasionally. Arnott is in a really, really long dry spell, and his defense plays remind me alot of Shanny, just flailing with the stick because he has no foot speed. I'm hoping someone buys him on rep, but if they've been scouting him more than just confirming his existance, it's possible Lou's phone might not even ring for Arnie tomorrow. Someone will call for Arnie. no doubt - scouting him or not. He could add solid depth to a good team and is a UFA at years end. The problem now is that we won't get what we would have gotten if we traded him in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-SS Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Someone will call for Arnie. no doubt - scouting him or not. He could add solid depth to a good team and is a UFA at years end. The problem now is that we won't get what we would have gotten if we traded him in October. +1 here I believe there is teams that will call for him but like you said we will probably not get what we would've got earlier this year. I think the Habs will surely call.I hear them whine all the time about Gomez and how they need a center man. Funny fact:They are now saying that he is slowing Gionta. Then again, what will we get from the Habs ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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