winnipeg jets?

[AEWHistory]

Yeah, ok Bill. And we weren't bombing Iraq and everything was fine there too.

LOL. Yea, looks like. We've got the reincarnation of Tariq Aziz! They'll move.... Welcome back Jets....please no Manitoba Mooses or Meeses! Now let's get the 'diques and Whalers back and all will be right in the world. Well, at least the hockey world.

Aaron

....................

BTW, anyone else notice how Atlanta can't hold an NHL team? They're like some kid on their first drinking binge and can't hold their liquor. Every time they try to take a swig of the NHL life up it comes!

Edited April 13, 2011 by AEWHistory

[AEWHistory]

So moving from Glendale to Winnipeg? That's just moving from one sh&thole to another except it's not as hot. Probably not as many racist old people too.

Careful there Carp, those in glass houses, ya know. Do you know how many people would say that about New Jersey, Newark, Trenton, etc.? I bet many more than Phoenix and Winnipeg. Now I LOVE Jersey and I am a loyal Trentonian, not to mention a diehard original Devs fan, but let's not piss on someone else's Wheaties.... Tomorrow we may be reaching far the same cereal!

okay, that wasn't the philosophically the Tao, Confucius, or Socrates, but take my meaning?

Edited April 13, 2011 by AEWHistory

[jim777]

Yeah, I've heard a lot along the lines of Winnipeg being a pretty depressed and depressing town. Quebec would seem like a better place to move a team to this admitted 'outsider'. As for Hamilton, I thought the Bulldogs had more sellouts than the Devils?

[hurricane1091]

Taking care of business, WINNIPEG!

[The Bootleg Saint]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/39788-Campbell-Coyotes-closing-in-on-move-to-Winnipeg.html

It's on The Hockey News's blog now too. I really hope they bring back the Jets and don't go with the Manitoba Moose. What's the point? You already have merchandise for the Jets so why change it? Plus, I love the Jets uni's and logo and want it back in the league!

[Satans Hockey]

Yeah, I've heard a lot along the lines of Winnipeg being a pretty depressed and depressing town. Quebec would seem like a better place to move a team to this admitted 'outsider'. As for Hamilton, I thought the Bulldogs had more sellouts than the Devils?

Hamilton is a horrible city, by far one of the worst cities I've been to, it's terribly depressing and they are in the lower half of ahl attendance, averaging 4,257 a game.

[MadDog2020]

So if the 'Yotes move back, is the catchpharse for the new Jets gonna be "DUH- WINNING-PEG"? Sorry, couldn't resist.

[mmajeski06]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/39788-Campbell-Coyotes-closing-in-on-move-to-Winnipeg.html

It's on The Hockey News's blog now too. I really hope they bring back the Jets and don't go with the Manitoba Moose. What's the point? You already have merchandise for the Jets so why change it? Plus, I love the Jets uni's and logo and want it back in the league!

If they go with the Moose, I am sure it will change within a year or two to the Jets. I read online that fans still chant "Go Jets Go!" and "We wan't the Jets!" at Manitoba Moose games.

Simple study in marketing...if they are the Moose, I'm happy for Winnipeg, but if they are the Jets, I'm happy for Winnipeg and buying a new Jets jersey.

The only way going with a different name would make sense is if Atlanta or some other team moved there. But in this case it is literally the same organization returning home. If the Dallas Stars had moved back to Minn would we have called them the Wild? I think they would have become the North Stars.

Edited April 15, 2011 by mmajeski06

[Jerzey]

I lived in Phoenix for a couple of years and I'll be sad to see them move if they do end up relocating.

The problem with Phoenix as a sports city is that it's built out not up meaning everything is very spread out. It's just not as easy for people to get to the arena as it is for people with a more compact city.

It's just hard to build a fan base in a situation like that. The Suns and the Cards have been around for a while and have a solid following. Bringing in a hockey team to a place like that was a bug risk and I guess it hasn't panned out. Too bad.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Jerzey Devil

[Jerrydevil]

When all the fairy tale, happy-ending, hooray-Canada stuff is pushed aside, and we're left with the bare economic realities, Winnipeg is not a good option.

[Daniel]

When all the fairy tale, happy-ending, hooray-Canada stuff is pushed aside, and we're left with the bare economic realities, Winnipeg is not a good option.

Maybe not, but it's a better option than Phoenix, at least so far as the people actually putting up the money are concerned. The league, Coyotes ownership and the city of Glendale have been throwing money into a bottomless pit for years. Now you have investors in Canada that are willing to put up their own money to take that albatross off of everyone else's hands. Yeah, I know NBC/Versus won't love it if the Winnepeg Jets are in the SC Finals, but otherwise relocating the Coyotes to Winnipeg (or to an oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico for that matter) is a no brainer.

For all intents and purposes the hockey market in the US is tapped out, there's no viable location in the US left to relocate a team (MAYBE a team in Milwaukee would work). Unless the league goes the route of contraction or expands to Europe (not gonna happen) the only place for teams to go is to Canada, and that means places like Quebec City, Winnipeg and Hamilton.

[mmajeski06]

If the Coyotes get bounced out by the Wings this isn't as bad...but imagine if they go on a miracle run and win the cup. First time in the modern sports era where a team wins a championship and then moves the following season.

Do they even bother having a parade in Phoenix? Guess it could be a Championship parade / going away party.

[Jerrydevil]

Maybe not, but it's a better option than Phoenix, at least so far as the people actually putting up the money are concerned.

Arizona has clearly been a failure. Is the U.S. market tapped out? I don't know.

[PeteyNice]

I don't think that is true at all. Houston could easily support a team as could the Pacific NW (Seattle or Portland). Kansas City could deserve a chance and whatever league decides to do Vegas first will do well. That's just off the top of my head. A case could be made for Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati, San Diego and lots of other places. The US market is hardly tapped out.

For all intents and purposes the hockey market in the US is tapped out, there's no viable location in the US left to relocate a team (MAYBE a team in Milwaukee would work). Unless the league goes the route of contraction or expands to Europe (not gonna happen) the only place for teams to go is to Canada, and that means places like Quebec City, Winnipeg and Hamilton.

[mmajeski06]

I don't think that is true at all. Houston could easily support a team as could the Pacific NW (Seattle or Portland). Kansas City could deserve a chance and whatever league decides to do Vegas first will do well. That's just off the top of my head. A case could be made for Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati, San Diego and lots of other places. The US market is hardly tapped out.

I think the most likely options on that list are Kansas City and Seattle. Seattle would be good with the rivalry that would ensue with Vancouver.

[Daniel]

I don't think that is true at all. Houston could easily support a team as could the Pacific NW (Seattle or Portland). Kansas City could deserve a chance and whatever league decides to do Vegas first will do well. That's just off the top of my head. A case could be made for Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati, San Diego and lots of other places. The US market is hardly tapped out.

Seems like you're making the same mistake as the NHL did when pursuing its plan of expansion for its own sake. Surely those are bigger markets than what's left in Canada. The question though is whether there's a sufficient HOCKEY market in any of those places. I would say the answer is no in all of them, except maybe Milwaukee and now maybe KC although I have serious doubts about that one.

You've already got two hockey teams in SoCal, so San Diego's out. Columbus has a hard enough time staying afloat with the Ohio fanbase all to itself. Plus if baseball attendence is any indication, folks in Cleveland and Cincinatti aren't really opening up their wallets to go to sporting events in general. And Vegas . . . there's a reason why, despite all the talk, no pro sports league has a team in Vegas, the NHL shouldn't be the first.

The point is, we all love hockey here, but the fact is most sports fans across the country don't and probably never will. Unless I had enough money to buy a team as purely a vanity project, I wouldn't spend a dime to put a team in any of the locations you suggest.

[nyrsuck26]

The only American markets that I could see supporting a new NHL team would probably be Kansas City, Portland, Seattle, Milwaukee, or maybe Salt Lake City. The problem with them is that none of them have the magic combination of owner and arena that gets you teams. Right now, Winnipeg is the only city in either US or Canada that has that.

[PeteyNice]

Phoenix isn't struggling because it isn't a hockey market, it is struggling because it has poor ownership and an arena that is not convenient to a lot of the population. Atlanta is struggling not because this isn't a hockey market but because of inept ownership. Houston, Seattle/Portland and yes Vegas could easily support NHL teams. San Diego probably could too and maybe SLC.

I am not saying the NHL needs to expand to any/all of these places but the idea that the US market is somehow "tapped out" is laughable.

Seems like you're making the same mistake as the NHL did when pursuing its plan of expansion for its own sake. Surely those are bigger markets than what's left in Canada. The question though is whether there's a sufficient HOCKEY market in any of those places. I would say the answer is no in all of them, except maybe Milwaukee and now maybe KC although I have serious doubts about that one.

You've already got two hockey teams in SoCal, so San Diego's out. Columbus has a hard enough time staying afloat with the Ohio fanbase all to itself. Plus if baseball attendence is any indication, folks in Cleveland and Cincinatti aren't really opening up their wallets to go to sporting events in general. And Vegas . . . there's a reason why, despite all the talk, no pro sports league has a team in Vegas, the NHL shouldn't be the first.

The point is, we all love hockey here, but the fact is most sports fans across the country don't and probably never will. Unless I had enough money to buy a team as purely a vanity project, I wouldn't spend a dime to put a team in any of the locations you suggest.

[mac760]

Phoenix isn't struggling because it isn't a hockey market, it is struggling because it has poor ownership and an arena that is not convenient to a lot of the population. Atlanta is struggling not because this isn't a hockey market but because of inept ownership. Houston, Seattle/Portland and yes Vegas could easily support NHL teams. San Diego probably could too and maybe SLC.

I am not saying the NHL needs to expand to any/all of these places but the idea that the US market is somehow "tapped out" is laughable.

I'm very doubtful on San Diego.

Seattle/Portland maybe.

Houston and Milwaukee don't draw that great in the AHL. Middle 1/3 of the league.

Edited April 16, 2011 by mac760

[sundstrom]

re: Vegas - it's a weird town. The locals there aren't really clamoring for this. Its almost a transient town anyway. I mean, most of the people with money that are there are not permanent residents and when they're there, sporting events (unless its boxing or something) aren't going to pack 'em in.

[Triumph]

Phoenix isn't struggling because it isn't a hockey market, it is struggling because it has poor ownership and an arena that is not convenient to a lot of the population. Atlanta is struggling not because this isn't a hockey market but because of inept ownership. Houston, Seattle/Portland and yes Vegas could easily support NHL teams. San Diego probably could too and maybe SLC.

I am not saying the NHL needs to expand to any/all of these places but the idea that the US market is somehow "tapped out" is laughable.

Don't you see how these things kind of go hand in glove though? I mean, not necessarily, but part of the reason why a team might have poor ownership and a bad arena location might be because in part, it's not the wisest investment?

I am not saying that Phoenix and Atlanta don't deserve NHL hockey, or that they necessarily can't support NHL hockey. I do think that circumstances would've had to be extremely favorable for either market to thrive. The idea that there's 15 other cities in the US who could support NHL hockey is ridiculous on its face - and these cities, along with the middling successes/mild failures that are Columbus and Nashville should be illustrative.

I haven't read too much about this, but it feels like brinkmanship on the NHL's part to leak the story to the Canadian press to bring this all to a head.

[PeteyNice]

Speaking strictly of Atlanta, the ownership has been involved in a long drawn out lawsuit between each other for years. The only season the Thrashers made the playoffs they drew ~17,000 a game. Hockey can work here but the product cannot be consistently terrible. There are very few cities that would respond to the failure on the ice seen in Atlanta and Columbus with high attendance. If that is your standard for "supporting NHL hockey" then the league would be much smaller.

Don't you see how these things kind of go hand in glove though? I mean, not necessarily, but part of the reason why a team might have poor ownership and a bad arena location might be because in part, it's not the wisest investment?

I am not saying that Phoenix and Atlanta don't deserve NHL hockey, or that they necessarily can't support NHL hockey. I do think that circumstances would've had to be extremely favorable for either market to thrive. The idea that there's 15 other cities in the US who could support NHL hockey is ridiculous on its face - and these cities, along with the middling successes/mild failures that are Columbus and Nashville should be illustrative.

I haven't read too much about this, but it feels like brinkmanship on the NHL's part to leak the story to the Canadian press to bring this all to a head.

[thelastonealive]

If the Coyotes get bounced out by the Wings this isn't as bad...but imagine if they go on a miracle run and win the cup. First time in the modern sports era where a team wins a championship and then moves the following season.

Do they even bother having a parade in Phoenix? Guess it could be a Championship parade / going away party.

If you don't mind my asking, are you old enough to remember the '95 Cup and the drama surrounding it? Because you sound like fans of all the other teams in the league when we won the Cup back then. It's eerie.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just genuinely curious. I remember that time and all the drama of the Devils potentially moving to Nashville even after winning the Cup pretty well.

I like the Coyotes a lot, probably because they remind me of that time so much. I'm pulling for them, both to go on said miracle run, and to stay in Phoenix. It's a shame they keep drawing the Red Wings in the playoffs.

[ghdi]

I'm very doubtful on San Diego.

Seattle/Portland maybe.

Houston and Milwaukee doesn't draw that great in the AHL. Middle 1/3 of the league.

Seattle cannot support an NHL team at this time. The one arena they have (Key) is not to NHL specifications and the region does not support public funding for a new arena which is the reason the Sonics left. Back in the 70s when Key Arena opened, the old Sonics owner had it built specifically for basketball and basketball only. He wanted the Sonics to dominate the landscape once football season ended. I don't know if he did that specifically to stop hockey from coming in, but that's the reason why Seattle hasn't had an NHL franchise in eons. I went to university in Seattle and the only hockey is the WHL's Thunderbirds who have decent support.

The Rose Garden in Portland can support an NHL franchise, but Portland is a secondary secondary market more on the level with Columbus than a major city. Its not feasible really and its never even rumored as being interested in an NHL franchise.

San Diego doesn't have an NHL-ready arena. Obviously, one could be built and I would bet on San Diego building one if some owner wanted to bring NBA AND NHL there. They had the San Diego Sports Arena, but that is now a casino. If the LA area can support two NHL teams and now 3 NBA teams, San Diego certainly can support 1 of each. They just need an arena and interest first, neither of which are there because of the lack of a building. If San Diego was to get a franchise, I imagine they'd want both leagues to commit before they'd get the go ahead to build something.

Houston is a major market and could support an NHL franchise. Dallas draws fine. Most professional sports in Texas does well as they're sports junkies down there. The AHL is still minor league hockey and people know this. Im not sure if the Rockets arena is NHL specifications, but I imagine it is.

[mac760]

Seattle cannot support an NHL team at this time. The one arena they have (Key) is not to NHL specifications and the region does not support public funding for a new arena which is the reason the Sonics left. Back in the 70s when Key Arena opened, the old Sonics owner had it built specifically for basketball and basketball only. He wanted the Sonics to dominate the landscape once football season ended. I don't know if he did that specifically to stop hockey from coming in, but that's the reason why Seattle hasn't had an NHL franchise in eons. I went to university in Seattle and the only hockey is the WHL's Thunderbirds who have decent support.

The Rose Garden in Portland can support an NHL franchise, but Portland is a secondary secondary market more on the level with Columbus than a major city. Its not feasible really and its never even rumored as being interested in an NHL franchise.

San Diego doesn't have an NHL-ready arena. Obviously, one could be built and I would bet on San Diego building one if some owner wanted to bring NBA AND NHL there. They had the San Diego Sports Arena, but that is now a casino. If the LA area can support two NHL teams and now 3 NBA teams, San Diego certainly can support 1 of each. They just need an arena and interest first, neither of which are there because of the lack of a building. If San Diego was to get a franchise, I imagine they'd want both leagues to commit before they'd get the go ahead to build something.

Houston is a major market and could support an NHL franchise. Dallas draws fine. Most professional sports in Texas does well as they're sports junkies down there. The AHL is still minor league hockey and people know this. Im not sure if the Rockets arena is NHL specifications, but I imagine it is.

Atleast with less competition from the Sonics I think hockey might have a chance in Seattle. Portland always has an inferiority complex with Seattle so with the right benefactor maybe it could happen just to spite Seattle.

San Diego. No way. I lived there. There is just too much other stuff to do for a hockey team to draw well. It seems to be a football town any way.

Houston was passed over the last expansion for a reason, I think it was a litigation issue with the AHL team/lease holder. And Dallas hasn't been THAT great attendance wise. I think you are moving one problem team to another hit or miss area.

But of the cities I mentioned I don't see any of these sites as being more prepared than Winnipeg to potentially recieve the Coyotes. They are all good sized television markets but are all missing 1 or more critical items arena, fan base, or benefactor willing to lose money.

Edited April 16, 2011 by mac760