Best in the League

[bruins4777]

who is the best in the league? some of said iggy because of his great past season, some say floppa, others say brodeur, some say nazzy, i say thornton.

sure i'm a bruins fan, but i still think thornton is the best in the league because of his steady defensive play, year to year consitency (2nd most points in the league for the past 3 years), ability to dominate a game, and the fact that he makes EVERYBODY around him better.

floppa makes every around him better and is an incredible talent but to me he is too injury prone for my liking. and he is a diving machine.

nazzy is another stellar player with his amazing offensive skill, leadership, vision, sick wrist shot, and his incredible consitency(most goals and points in the league the past 3 years). but to me he doesn't have that "physical" dominating factor to be considered the best. he has the ability to dominate sure by blazing in and out and scoring sick goals but he doesn't make players around him and he doesn't simply wear and kill defenses like thornton

brodeur, yeah he is a goalie and goalie is the most important position in hockey. and brodeur IS the best goalie in the league. but the simple fact is that brodeur can't score. sure he is incredible with his puckmoving and his ability to create an outstanding transition game, but he can't score unless there is an empty net. rarely is a goalie ever the best in the league. if brodeur was in florida his stats would rise and probably be as good or better than luongo's but he wouldn't have as many wins because the team in front of him can't score.

sakic, he is too "ghost like" he dominates games by popping out of here and there and his defensive zone is only subpar. while his leadership is still incredible. but i don't think he is as good as thornton because thornton is simply better at just straight out dominanting a game.

bertuzzi, the best power forward in the game. however what holds him back from being at the top is his laziness, inconsitency, inability to control his anger, and horrid defensive zone play. he also can't make players around him better like thornton can. but he is the best power forward in the game for the sole fact that he just crashes the net, pounds away at goalies, and makes hell for every defender in the league for his incredible size.

so what does this lead us to? thornton being the best in the league. he has made an inconsistent 20 goal scorer into a 40 goal guy(murray), a simple 5 goal a year grinder into a 20/30 goal guy(knuble), an inconsitent power forward into a 40 goal guy which he has yet to be again since leaving b-town(guerin). his ability to take over a game in the offensive zone, defensive zone, and sheer ability to make any linemate great in this traping day and age makes him the best in the league in my opinion. feel free to debate.

[squishyx]

no, the answer is no, joe thornton is not the best player in the game. sorry to tell you. your biased, your a bruins fan, and thats why you think this way.

[bruins4777]

no, the answer is no, joe thornton is not the best player in the game. sorry to tell you. your biased, your a bruins fan, and thats why you think this way.

look at my reasons. maybe u could consider nazzy and floppa and MAYBE sakic but not really in my opinion.

[squishyx]

no, the answer is no, joe thornton is not the best player in the game. sorry to tell you. your biased, your a bruins fan, and thats why you think this way.

look at my reasons. maybe u could consider nazzy and floppa and MAYBE sakic but not really in my opinion.

well i read your reasons, and i respect your right to have an opnion, but i think your way off, thornton would barely make my top 10 list, maybe not even top 20. granted ive only had a chance to see him when he plays one of the 3 local teams or on espn during the playoffs but i dont think he #1 in the league.

i get to see foreberg, sakic, naslund even less then thornton and i would still easilly pick them over joe.

Edited August 27, 2004 by squishyx

[Derek21]

Best player is so hard to define. To me, this player should be at the top of his league and be able to dominate no matter how big the game. These players shouldn't disappear in key moments. The best players have the ability to rise to the occasion. Joe Thornton still hasn't done that. That's why I can't say that he's the best. He certainly has the ability to be the best. But does he have the drive and determination? Those are the lingering doubts.

[bruins4777]

no, the answer is no, joe thornton is not the best player in the game. sorry to tell you. your biased, your a bruins fan, and thats why you think this way.

look at my reasons. maybe u could consider nazzy and floppa and MAYBE sakic but not really in my opinion.

well i read your reasons, and i respect your right to have an opnion, but i think your way off, thornton would barely make my top 10 list, maybe not even top 20. granted ive only had a chance to see him when he plays one of the 3 local teams or on espn during the playoffs but i dont think he #1 in the league.

i get to see foreberg, sakic, naslund even less then thornton and i would still easilly pick them over joe.

meh i guess u can't talk to ignorance.

not even top 10 for u???? wow. i'm not even bothering.

[squishyx]

no, the answer is no, joe thornton is not the best player in the game. sorry to tell you. your biased, your a bruins fan, and thats why you think this way.

look at my reasons. maybe u could consider nazzy and floppa and MAYBE sakic but not really in my opinion.

well i read your reasons, and i respect your right to have an opnion, but i think your way off, thornton would barely make my top 10 list, maybe not even top 20. granted ive only had a chance to see him when he plays one of the 3 local teams or on espn during the playoffs but i dont think he #1 in the league.

i get to see foreberg, sakic, naslund even less then thornton and i would still easilly pick them over joe.

meh i guess u can't talk to ignorance.

not even top 10 for u???? wow. i'm not even bothering.

easy killer, just because i dont think thornton is #1 does not mean im "ignorant". becareful who you insult.

Edited August 27, 2004 by squishyx

[bruins4777]

no, the answer is no, joe thornton is not the best player in the game. sorry to tell you. your biased, your a bruins fan, and thats why you think this way.

look at my reasons. maybe u could consider nazzy and floppa and MAYBE sakic but not really in my opinion.

well i read your reasons, and i respect your right to have an opnion, but i think your way off, thornton would barely make my top 10 list, maybe not even top 20. granted ive only had a chance to see him when he plays one of the 3 local teams or on espn during the playoffs but i dont think he #1 in the league.

i get to see foreberg, sakic, naslund even less then thornton and i would still easilly pick them over joe.

meh i guess u can't talk to ignorance.

not even top 10 for u???? wow. i'm not even bothering.

easy killer, just because i dont think thornton is #1 does not mean im "ignorant". becareful who you insult.

i don't mind that u don't say thornton isn't no.1 but when u go around saying that thornton isn't even top 10 and maybe not even top 20 i just can't believe that. that is impossible to deal with. u see the devils correct? lets not forget 2002-2003 regular season when he got 6 goals in 4 games against the devils during the regular season. he is outstanding. i can't believe anyone would say maybe not even top 20 that is just ridiculous.

[Chris]

I'm a Bruins fan, and, quite frankly, you are wrong about Thornton. He has a ton of talent, and if he had the drive, he COULD be the best player in the league. The problem is that he has absolutely no heart, and his leadership abilities--or lack thereof--leave much to be desired. There are a few very good reasons why he's failed in the playoffs in the past, and none of them are related to his injuries.

[squishyx]

no, the answer is no, joe thornton is not the best player in the game. sorry to tell you. your biased, your a bruins fan, and thats why you think this way.

look at my reasons. maybe u could consider nazzy and floppa and MAYBE sakic but not really in my opinion.

well i read your reasons, and i respect your right to have an opnion, but i think your way off, thornton would barely make my top 10 list, maybe not even top 20. granted ive only had a chance to see him when he plays one of the 3 local teams or on espn during the playoffs but i dont think he #1 in the league.

i get to see foreberg, sakic, naslund even less then thornton and i would still easilly pick them over joe.

meh i guess u can't talk to ignorance.

not even top 10 for u???? wow. i'm not even bothering.

easy killer, just because i dont think thornton is #1 does not mean im "ignorant". becareful who you insult.

i don't mind that u don't say thornton isn't no.1 but when u go around saying that thornton isn't even top 10 and maybe not even top 20 i just can't believe that. that is impossible to deal with. u see the devils correct? lets not forget 2002-2003 regular season when he got 6 goals in 4 games against the devils during the regular season. he is outstanding. i can't believe anyone would say maybe not even top 20 that is just ridiculous.

how is it "impossible to deal with me" thats just silly. im certainly not the end all hockey knowing god, i dont make the final descions.

when u go around saying that thornton isn't even top 10 and maybe not even top 20

your thread is the first time i said that, not like ive been secretly spreading my poison wors trying to currupt other members to think what i think.

and im sorry if you cant handle my opnion, but im not very impressed by him, there are a lot of other players i would put on my roster before joe. he has talent, im not trying to take that away from him, but i think they is a host of other more silled players that deserve to ranked higher then him.

lets not forget 2002-2003 regular season when he got 6 goals in 4 games against the devils during the regular season

let us also not forget a certain lemeuix who scored 5 goals against the devils.... in one game. so 6 in 4 isnt all too impressive when you talk about the best in the league.

and this has really nothing to do with me being a devils fan, if broduer was not on the list i prob. wouldnt have voted because, like i explained, i think goalies are the most important position, i would list about 4 or 5 before i listed any foward. a goalie can win a game by himself, joe thornton cant.

[bruins4777]

I'm a Bruins fan, and, quite frankly, you are wrong about Thornton. He has a ton of talent, and if he had the drive, he COULD be the best player in the league. The problem is that he has absolutely no heart, and his leadership abilities--or lack thereof--leave much to be desired. There are a few very good reasons why he's failed in the playoffs in the past, and none of them are related to his injuries.

what are u talking about....HE PLAYED WITH TORN RIB CARTILLAGE?!!!?!? NO HEART???!?!!??!. thats normally 6 weeks out. my god. no leadership?? he sets by example.

ur the kind of bruins fan that went around bashing thornton for a poor playoff when 99 percent of players in the league wouldn't have even played.

[bruins4777]

Best player is so hard to define. To me, this player should be at the top of his league and be able to dominate no matter how big the game. These players shouldn't disappear in key moments. The best players have the ability to rise to the occasion. Joe Thornton still hasn't done that. That's why I can't say that he's the best. He certainly has the ability to be the best. But does he have the drive and determination? Those are the lingering doubts.

its hard to dominante a game when u have this amazing thing called torn rib cartillage.

he was strong in the montreal series they lost that because theo dominated the last 2 and dafoe did the exact opposite.

he was strong and a constant presence in the devils series as well, but brodeur stole that whole series. there is a reason why he didn't score a lot its kinda hard when u have a scott stevens playing like he is 25 again and john madden playing the series of his life constantly draped over u. todd bertuzzi was simply covered by a injured willie mitchell against the wild and beaten throughly by a rookie in barret jackman. thornton has to put up with more checking in the league than anyone and he is still amazing.

[Chris]

I'm a Bruins fan, and, quite frankly, you are wrong about Thornton. He has a ton of talent, and if he had the drive, he COULD be the best player in the league. The problem is that he has absolutely no heart, and his leadership abilities--or lack thereof--leave much to be desired. There are a few very good reasons why he's failed in the playoffs in the past, and none of them are related to his injuries.

what are u talking about....HE PLAYED WITH TORN RIB CARTILLAGE?!!!?!? NO HEART???!?!!??!. thats normally 6 weeks out. my god. no leadership?? he sets by example.

ur the kind of bruins fan that went around bashing thornton for a poor playoff when 99 percent of players in the league wouldn't have even played.

In every single big game I've seen him play, he's suddenly become invisible. Can you explain that? He has NO drive to win a championship. Period.

[Derek21]

In today's game, checking is part of hockey. The great ones have the ability to still produce under that pressure. Sakic is one of those guys who faced that kind of pressure and destroyed his opponent propelling his team to a Cup. That's greatness.

[MissionHockey]

This is really tough to define. Nobody has really separated from the pack to make a clear cut number 1 player. If you go on talent, then it has to be Lemieux. If you go by production, then you definately have to go with Naslund. Flip a coin between Naslund and Forsberg and that will be your answer IMO.

[bruins4777]

In today's game, checking is part of hockey. The great ones have the ability to still produce under that pressure. Sakic is one of those guys who faced that kind of pressure and destroyed his opponent propelling his team to a Cup. That's greatness.

100 points while being checked is pretty good. and he is still young he will prove to u he will be better eventually. he's only 24.

[bruins4777]

I'm a Bruins fan, and, quite frankly, you are wrong about Thornton. He has a ton of talent, and if he had the drive, he COULD be the best player in the league. The problem is that he has absolutely no heart, and his leadership abilities--or lack thereof--leave much to be desired. There are a few very good reasons why he's failed in the playoffs in the past, and none of them are related to his injuries.

what are u talking about....HE PLAYED WITH TORN RIB CARTILLAGE?!!!?!? NO HEART???!?!!??!. thats normally 6 weeks out. my god. no leadership?? he sets by example.

ur the kind of bruins fan that went around bashing thornton for a poor playoff when 99 percent of players in the league wouldn't have even played.

In every single big game I've seen him play, he's suddenly become invisible. Can you explain that? He has NO drive to win a championship. Period.

invisible yields 6 points in 6 games

invisible yields 3 points in 5 games

invisible yields 9 points in 11 games as a sophmore.

0 points in 7 games is because of torn rib cartiallge which is a big reason why he didn't get any points.

how can u question a guy's heart when he plays with torn rib cartiallge. that is just ridiculous.

[squishyx]

In today's game, checking is part of hockey. The great ones have the ability to still produce under that pressure. Sakic is one of those guys who faced that kind of pressure and destroyed his opponent propelling his team to a Cup. That's greatness.

100 points while being checked is pretty good. and he is still young he will prove to u he will be better eventually. he's only 24.

and then the next year his production droped 30 pts. not exactly the poster child for consistancy you were claiming. 73pts in a season is really good, but it isnt the best.

[MissionHockey]

In today's game, checking is part of hockey. The great ones have the ability to still produce under that pressure. Sakic is one of those guys who faced that kind of pressure and destroyed his opponent propelling his team to a Cup. That's greatness.

100 points while being checked is pretty good. and he is still young he will prove to u he will be better eventually. he's only 24.

Thornton is 25, and being that young is why I wouldn't chose him to be the best in the NHL. He hasn't produced as consistently as Naslund, nor has he been as dominate as Forsberg. Add that to the fact that he hasn't ever really produced in the playoffs and Thornton is a few blocks off the list.

[bruins4777]

In today's game, checking is part of hockey. The great ones have the ability to still produce under that pressure. Sakic is one of those guys who faced that kind of pressure and destroyed his opponent propelling his team to a Cup. That's greatness.

100 points while being checked is pretty good. and he is still young he will prove to u he will be better eventually. he's only 24.

and then the next year his production droped 30 pts. not exactly the poster child for consistancy you were claiming. 73pts in a season is really good, but it isnt the best.

he was forced to play in a defensive system. which he embraced as a leader and improved his defensive game drastically, which thus resulted in a better OVERALL PLAYER.

as a result of having a better overall player u get a higher ranked team.

[bruins4777]

In today's game, checking is part of hockey. The great ones have the ability to still produce under that pressure. Sakic is one of those guys who faced that kind of pressure and destroyed his opponent propelling his team to a Cup. That's greatness.

100 points while being checked is pretty good. and he is still young he will prove to u he will be better eventually. he's only 24.

Thornton is 25, and being that young is why I wouldn't chose him to be the best in the NHL. He hasn't produced as consistently as Naslund, nor has he been as dominate as Forsberg. Add that to the fact that he hasn't ever really produced in the playoffs and Thornton is a few blocks off the list.

he is 2nd in the list of the most points in the league for the past 3 years 2nd to only nazzy himself. and to to mention he missed a good deal(nearly 20 games) of the 2001-2002 season because of injuries.

and when thornton dominantes it is as good if not better than floppa.

[Max]

I do not think Joe Thornton is close to being the best player in the league. Nothing against Joe I like him and do think he is a good player. But I think Mario Lamieux is the best player in the league.

[MissionHockey]

he is 2nd in the list of the most points in the league for the past 3 years 2nd to only nazzy himself. and to to mention he missed a good deal(nearly 20 games) of the 2001-2002 season because of injuries.

and when thornton dominantes it is as good if not better than floppa.

I doubt that. Had Forsberg played the whole season he would have been on pace for 120+ points. That is pure domination. Forsberg ppg is insane also. I saw on another board that its around 1.6ppg.

[bruins4777]

he is 2nd in the list of the most points in the league for the past 3 years 2nd to only nazzy himself. and to to mention he missed a good deal(nearly 20 games) of the 2001-2002 season because of injuries.

and when thornton dominantes it is as good if not better than floppa.

I doubt that. Had Forsberg played the whole season he would have been on pace for 120+ points. That is pure domination. Forsberg ppg is insane also. I saw on another board that its around 1.6ppg.

it was 1.5 and there was no way he could have kept up that pace. look at his incredible drop off in the san jose series when he was at full health. all he did was stand around divign and yelling at refs while putting up zip points in the last 4 games when the team needed him most. while sakic stepped up big time, didn't dive, didn't bitch, just flat out played. and look what happened.

[squishyx]

In today's game, checking is part of hockey. The great ones have the ability to still produce under that pressure. Sakic is one of those guys who faced that kind of pressure and destroyed his opponent propelling his team to a Cup. That's greatness.

100 points while being checked is pretty good. and he is still young he will prove to u he will be better eventually. he's only 24.

Thornton is 25, and being that young is why I wouldn't chose him to be the best in the NHL. He hasn't produced as consistently as Naslund, nor has he been as dominate as Forsberg. Add that to the fact that he hasn't ever really produced in the playoffs and Thornton is a few blocks off the list.

he is 2nd in the list of the most points in the league for the past 3 years 2nd to only nazzy himself. and to to mention he missed a good deal(nearly 20 games) of the 2001-2002 season because of injuries.

and when thornton dominantes it is as good if not better than floppa.

and if we were having a debate about who the 2nd best scorer in the last three years was, thornton certainly would be the guy.

but we are talking BEST overall, and it has to span some time, more then just 3 years. and as you so clearly pointed out a BETTER player out scored him during that stretch.

as for injuries? well that HAS to factor in to weather or not a player is the best. if you are gonna cut yourself or tear a ligament every time you touch the ice your obviosuly not the bet player in the game.