ButlerBulldog Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 4 minutes ago, devlman said: Lol really? So when someone says our 3 ‘rookie’ defensemen (players sub-82 games experience start of the year) we are gonna get all tripped up by automatically excluding Bahl from the topic on the technicality? Ok… Irrespective of Bahl’s status or experience, he’s often discussed in a different context than Luke and Nemec because he wasn’t a high draft pick and isn’t expected to play as substantial a role as they are, whether this season or in the years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 minute ago, devlman said: No sh!t buddy. I’m not debating his technical status. He turns 24 in two months, and has played games in 4 NHL seasons. Sorry, just don’t see him as a “rookie” at this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Just now, Nicomo said: He turns 24 in two months, and has played games in 4 NHL seasons. Sorry, just don’t see him as a “rookie” at this point. You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. I am not saying he is a technical rookie. I am saying that when people say our ‘3 young rookie defensemen, we all know what and who that means’. Pretending otherwise means you’re obtuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said: Irrespective of Bahl’s status or experience, he’s often discussed in a different context than Luke and Nemec because he wasn’t a high draft pick and isn’t expected to play as substantial a role as they are, whether this season or in the years to come. I still think Arizona knew what they were doing when they threw him in the Hall trade. Dude is just not very good. His height is probably the only reason he’s even in the NHL. Edited March 30 by Nicomo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Just now, Nicomo said: I still think Arizona knew what they were doing when they threw him in the Hall trade. Dude is just very good. His height is probably the only reason he’s even in the NHL. Which, as we’ve discussed many times, he doesn’t use properly. I hope that a more defensive-minded coach who encourages and expects physicality from his players can get something out of him, as he’s not going to contribute much otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 1 minute ago, ButlerBulldog said: Which, as we’ve discussed many times, he doesn’t use properly. I hope that a more defensive-minded coach who encourages and expects physicality from his players can get something out of him, as he’s not going to contribute much otherwise. Oh he definitely doesn’t bring anything else besides that reach. Dude makes Siegenthaler look gifted offensively. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 15 minutes ago, devlman said: You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. I am not saying he is a technical rookie. I am saying that when people say our ‘3 young rookie defensemen, we all know what and who that means’. Pretending otherwise means you’re obtuse. But I think if you ask the majority of posters herein if they think of bAHL the same way as they do Luke or Nemec, you’ll find that most place him in a different category for the reasons I cited above. He’s definitely a young player, but the perception of him, his experience to date, and his upside is entirely different from those of his more celebrated teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 16 minutes ago, Nicomo said: Oh he definitely doesn’t bring anything else besides that reach. Dude makes Siegenthaler look gifted offensively. No doubt, but I’d like to see Bahl offer more within his own zone. He’s not the skater that Luke or Nemec is, but he should be able to use his size to discourage opposing forwards from rushing the net. I don’t ever remember him laying someone out or even putting his elbow or hip into someone’s midsection to remind them he’s nearby. I’m not suggesting he needs to hit someone every game as Rempe has, but occasional physicality should serve as a deterrent to players camping out near the crease and to opposing players hunting Jack or Nico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said: No doubt, but I’d like to see Bahl offer more within his own zone. He’s not the skater that Luke or Nemec is, but he should be able to use his size to discourage opposing forwards from rushing the net. I don’t ever remember him laying someone out or even putting his elbow or hip into someone’s midsection to remind them he’s nearby. I’m not suggesting he needs to hit someone every game as Rempe has, but occasional physicality should serve as a deterrent to players camping out near the crease and to opposing players hunting Jack or Nico. Wrecking Bahl could have been an all time nickname. Too bad he’s soft as baby sh!t. Edited March 30 by Nicomo 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 12 hours ago, Nicomo said: Wrecking Bahl could have been an all time nickname. Too bad he’s soft as baby sh!t. It’s a shame because I think he’s tried to throw his body around more. The problem is his hockey IQ needs a lot more work. And out of the 3 young dmen he got the most sheltered minutes. Yet the improvement has been only marginal. And again here’s my problem with Luke. He’s failed this season, and here is my definition of failure: Did he help lead his team to a playoff berth in his top-4 role? The answer is no. He was forced into a role that he was not yet ready for. In fact a lot of the blame falls on management for not sheltering him more. From his partners in the system, to his deployment. He’s been put in positions to fail and not learn from mistakes fast enough. Every vet dman was hurt for an extended period of time this year, some of the injuries overlapped. Yet Fitz sat quietly on Dougie’s LTIR and didn’t bring in reinforcements. Add in the glaring goalie problems and you have to scratch your head at Fitz for not bringing in support. You can’t throw these kids to the wolves and expect them to succeed in leading the team to the postseason. The very average DiSimone was brought in near the freaking TDL and he instantly brought a boost to everyone. Fitz couldn’t have brought in support sooner? And don’t get me started on Lindy’s system which was asking too much for young defensemen to handle consistently. But watching Luke play this huge role he wasn’t ready for, especially when the games got meaningful, has been very rough and detrimental to the team imo. And btw the same applies to Nemec and Bahl. Edited March 30 by devlman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 28 minutes ago, devlman said: It’s a shame because I think he’s tried to throw his body around more. The problem is his hockey IQ needs a lot more work. And out of the 3 young dmen he got the most sheltered minutes. Yet the improvement has been only marginal. And again here’s my problem with Luke. He’s failed this season, and here is my definition of failure: Did he help lead his team to a playoff berth in his top-4 role? The answer is no. He was forced into a role that he was not yet ready for. In fact a lot of the blame falls on management for not sheltering him more. From his partners in the system, to his deployment. He’s been put in positions to fail and not learn from mistakes fast enough. Every vet dman was hurt for an extended period of time this year, some of the injuries overlapped. Yet Fitz sat quietly on Dougie’s LTIR and didn’t bring in reinforcements. Add in the glaring goalie problems and you have to scratch your head at Fitz for not bringing in support. You can’t throw these kids to the wolves and expect them to succeed in leading the team to the postseason. The very average DiSimone was brought in near the freaking TDL and he instantly brought a boost to everyone. Fitz couldn’t have brought in support sooner? And don’t get me started on Lindy’s system which was asking too much for young defensemen to handle consistently. But watching Luke play this huge role he wasn’t ready for, especially when the games got meaningful, has been very rough and detrimental to the team imo. And btw the same applies to Nemec and Bahl. I don’t think there’s any benefit in revisiting our terse exchange from yesterday, but I’m wondering why you continue to group Bahl with Luke and Nemec, as he’s nowhere near the same caliber of prospect and thus faces dramatically different expectations than his counterparts. Although he’s definitely not been an asset to the team—in part because of the depth-related limitations to which you’re referring—he likely would not have played much better than he has even under the best of circumstances. As for Luke and Nemec, I disagree that either has failed in his role this season, as both have demonstrated improvement over the course of the year, and although the instances in which they’ve struggled have been frustrating, each seems poised to become an excellent defenseman. That too much has allegedly been asked of them is an indictment of Fitz and a reflection of his inability to build a sufficiently deep defensive corps, something I hope he addresses in the offseason. It’s perfectly fine to blame Luke and Simon for individual mistakes or lapses, but I draw a line at faulting them for any systemic flaws or deficiencies that have precipitated inconsistencies in their overall play. Edited March 30 by ButlerBulldog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 18 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said: I don’t think there’s any benefit in revisiting our terse exchange from yesterday, but I’m wondering why you continue to group Bahl with Luke and Nemec, as he’s nowhere near the same caliber of prospect and thus faces dramatically different expectations than his counterparts. Although he’s definitely not been an asset to the team—in part because of the depth-related limitations to which you’re referring—he likely would not have played much better than he has even under the best of circumstances. As for Luke and Nemec, I disagree that either has failed in his role this season, as both have demonstrated improvement over the course of the year, and although the instances in which they’ve struggled have been frustrating, each seems poised to become an excellent defenseman. That too much has allegedly been asked of them is an indictment of Fitz and a reflection of his inability to build a sufficiently deep defensive corps, something I hope he addresses in the offseason. It’s perfectly fine to blame Luke and Simon for individual mistakes or lapses, but I draw a line at faulting them for any systemic flaws or deficiencies that have precipitated inconsistencies in their overall play. Because he’s a young defenseman who is currently slated as being part of our future. And you are mixing definitions of failure. Re-read my definition of it. Has nothing to do with personal progression or their ceilings. On a side note I am glad to see there’s no name calling or embarrassment of a failed grammar lesson from you today 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerBulldog Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 2 minutes ago, devlman said: Because he’s a young defenseman who is currently slated as being part of our future. And you are mixing definitions of failure. Re-read my definition of it. Has nothing to do with personal progression or their ceilings. On a side note I am glad to see there’s no name calling or embarrassment of a failed grammar lesson from you today 👍 I would be surprised if Bahl remains a Devil for more than one or two more seasons, as he’s not a particularly good player and has shown little to convince me he’s an integral part of this team’s defensive group. The scope of his capabilities is limited and doesn’t compare to that of Luke or Nemec. Grouping Bahl with either is akin to comparing apples to oranges. That said, if the new coach can teach Bahl to use his size and play with more toughness than he’s shown thus far, perhaps he’ll be able to cultivate a niche for himself. As far as failure is concerned, I would define it as a persistent inability to meet expectations, irrespective of the root cause of said inability, and I don’t think either Luke or Nemec has failed to meet expectations, except perhaps in certain instances. You’re welcome to your own opinion, of course, but I think you’ll find that the majority of the board doesn’t share it. A small minority of posters seems to harbor an inexplicable hatred for Luke, but those dissenters aside, most people are encouraged by what they’ve seen from him and Simon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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