Marc Staal offer sheet?

[MartysGlove]

Suppose Marc Staal would sign an offer sheet to play here if the $$$ and years were right..

Do you think Lou would do it?

It would be similar to what the Sharks just did to the Hawks (although not as extreme)..

Make an offer sheet to a rival's RFA to either 1) handcuff them in the future if they do match or 2) Fill a needed hole

Obviously you would need to slightly overpay to make this situation worth it (otherwise they'd just match and move on)

Staal would be a great addition to this team for both this season and for the future , whether he's worth the compensation and all is another question.

What do you guys think?

[Daniel]

Suppose Marc Staal would sign an offer sheet to play here if the $$$ and years were right..

Do you think Lou would do it?

It would be similar to what the Sharks just did to the Hawks (although not as extreme)..

Make an offer sheet to a rival's RFA to either 1) handcuff them in the future if they do match or 2) Fill a needed hole

Obviously you would need to slightly overpay to make this situation worth it (otherwise they'd just match and move on)

Staal would be a great addition to this team for both this season and for the future , whether he's worth the compensation and all is another question.

What do you guys think?

You want to give up three first round picks for him if the Rangers don't match? Or do you want to have open season declared by the Rangers on Devils RFAs? (There is something of an unwritten rule on that).

Edited July 14, 2010 by Daniel

[stevestevens]

If Staal was sent a 3.5 per a year deal it wouldn't be bad. He is well worth a 1st and 3rd round pick - do the Devils do it? No.

[MartysGlove]

You want to give up three first round picks for him if the Rangers don't match? Or do you want to have open season declared by the Rangers on Devils RFAs? (There is something of an unwritten rule on that).

You fail at trolling.

1) Show me where I suggested what the Devils should offer

2) 3 1st round picks is not even a possible compensation result.

OFFER

COMPENSATION

$994,433 or below None

Over $994,433 to $1,506,716

Third-round choice

Over $1,506,716 to $3,013,434 Second-round choice

Over $3,013,434 to $4,520,150 First-round and third-round choice

Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867 First-round, second-round and third-round choice

Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584 Two first-round choices, one second- and one third-round choice

Over $7,533,584 Four first-round choices

Looking at a 1st and a 3rd (probable) or a 1,2,4.. He's not getting 6+ mill from anyone.

And yes, Marc Staal is easily worth a 1st and a 3rd.

I'd be surprised if the Rangers don't match anything under 5-5.5 million, the point being (ie Sharks-Hawks) by forcing them to spend more money on Staal, you handcuff their cap.

3) Again, you realize the players actually have to SIGN the offer sheet. I'm assuming (For the sake of speculation) that Staal would sign, do you really think that Parise (the only soon to be RFA that the Rangers would sign) would sign an offer sheet with the Rangers?

Besides, if they DO sign him to an offer sheet, unless its over 8 mill a season I doubt we don't match it.

If it is a ridiculous contract that gets us FOUR 1st round picks as well as screws up their cap.. then i'm honestly okay with that. It would suck to lose Parise but its not like any GM in the league would trade 4 1st round picks for him, thats alot of value.

[MartysGlove]

Point is, he's get (lets say) a 3.5 mill contract from the Rangers..

Signing him to an offer sheet for (lets say) 4.5 (which is still decent value depending on the length of the contract) would either

1) Result in a 1st + 3rd trade for Staal (Well worth it for the Devils)

2) Result in the Rangers shelling out another million (which while it may seem like crumbs, in a salary cap world every bit helps)

[DevsFan7545]

I would give him a 4.5Mil Per Year Offer sheet for a 1st and a 3rd Easily , and if the Rangers match they have to up by about 1mil which puts the Rangers in cap hell.

[Daniel]

You fail at trolling.

1) Show me where I suggested what the Devils should offer

2) 3 1st round picks is not even a possible compensation result.

OFFER

COMPENSATION

$994,433 or below None

Over $994,433 to $1,506,716

Third-round choice

Over $1,506,716 to $3,013,434 Second-round choice

Over $3,013,434 to $4,520,150 First-round and third-round choice

Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867 First-round, second-round and third-round choice

Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584 Two first-round choices, one second- and one third-round choice

Over $7,533,584 Four first-round choices

Looking at a 1st and a 3rd (probable) or a 1,2,4.. He's not getting 6+ mill from anyone.

And yes, Marc Staal is easily worth a 1st and a 3rd.

I'd be surprised if the Rangers don't match anything under 5-5.5 million, the point being (ie Sharks-Hawks) by forcing them to spend more money on Staal, you handcuff their cap.

3) Again, you realize the players actually have to SIGN the offer sheet. I'm assuming (For the sake of speculation) that Staal would sign, do you really think that Parise (the only soon to be RFA that the Rangers would sign) would sign an offer sheet with the Rangers?

Besides, if they DO sign him to an offer sheet, unless its over 8 mill a season I doubt we don't match it.

If it is a ridiculous contract that gets us FOUR 1st round picks as well as screws up their cap.. then i'm honestly okay with that. It would suck to lose Parise but its not like any GM in the league would trade 4 1st round picks for him, thats alot of value.

Funny how some people scream troll at the slightest sound of criticism.

The only point that the Rangers won't match an competing offer would be at high range of the first/second/third round pick. (Fine, I was wrong on the three first round pick threshold. Bully for you). So really, you're whole idea is academic (and about as useful as proposing a trade for Crosby).

And it's good to know you're BFF with Parise and KNOW he would never sign an over sheet with the Rangers, because he cares so much about hurting our delicate feelings. Glad you're not in charge of anything.

Don't quit your day job.

[MartysGlove]

Funny how some people scream troll at the slightest sound of criticism.

The only point that the Rangers won't match an competing offer would be at high range of the first/second/third round pick. (Fine, I was wrong on the three first round pick threshold. Bully for you). So really, you're whole idea is academic (and about as useful as proposing a trade for Crosby).

And it's good to know you're BFF with Parise and KNOW he would never sign an over sheet with the Rangers, because he cares so much about hurting our delicate feelings. Glad you're not in charge of anything.

Don't quit your day job.

I think you are overdue at your latest "Trade Brodeur and start to rebuild NOW" thread..

oh wait! I said that they probably won't match a competing offer only if it was over 5.5 mill TOO! would you look at that.

You don't get the point, at all. Its strategically forcing the Rangers to spend more money then they had planned on him, more cap space wasted by a key divisional rival.

If Parise wants to sign a 8+ mill offer sheet with the Rangers, then let him. He'd sign there as a UFA anyways and this way we'd get 4 1st round picks in return.

You should probably go get a day job so you can quit hanging out around here.

Edited July 14, 2010 by MartysGlove

[iamtheprodigy]

For my two cents, I'd definitely take Staal at 4-4.5 even with the compensation, but I highly doubt Lou would make a move like that.

[Daniel]

I think you are overdue at your latest "Trade Brodeur and start to rebuild NOW" thread..

oh wait! I said that they probably won't match a competing offer only if it was over 5.5 mill TOO! would you look at that.

You don't get the point, at all. Its strategically forcing the Rangers to spend more money then they had planned on him, more cap space wasted by a key divisional rival.

If Parise wants to sign a 8+ mill offer sheet with the Rangers, then let him. He'd sign there as a UFA anyways and this way we'd get 4 1st round picks in return.

You should probably go get a day job so you can quit hanging out around here.

Where to start with you.

First, go find a post of mine where I've ever said trade Brodeur and/or rebuild. You won't be able find one. At most I've said that the Devils would not get past the first round last year (I was right) and that if someone offered one of those ridiculously rumored trades for Marty (Van Reemsdyke and Giroux was one thing that was sarcastically thrown out there) than I would do it. Reading is fundamental.

Forcing the Rangers to spend more money than they want to? Fine, but you realize it works both ways. Rangers will be laughing there a$$es off when they give an offer sheet for Parise, we either can't match it, or it screws up the cap situation.

And finally, you shouldn't worry about my job. I'm doing allright. And I won't care when you're 35 and you're still living in your parents' basement.

[MartysGlove]

Where to start with you.

First, go find a post of mine where I've ever said trade Brodeur and/or rebuild. You won't be able find one. At most I've said that the Devils would not get past the first round last year (I was right) and that if someone offered one of those ridiculously rumored trades for Marty (Van Reemsdyke and Giroux was one thing that was sarcastically thrown out there) than I would do it. Reading is fundamental.

Forcing the Rangers to spend more money than they want to? Fine, but you realize it works both ways. Rangers will be laughing there a$$es off when they give an offer sheet for Parise, we either can't match it, or it screws up the cap situation.

And finally, you shouldn't worry about my job. I'm doing allright. And I won't care when you're 35 and you're still living in your parents' basement.

I'll try and make this around your reading level:

IF THE RANGERS WANT TO SIGN PARISE TO AN 8+ MILLION OFFER SHEET, I WILL NOT MIND.

Find me one GM in the league that would trade FOUR first round picks for Parise.

And AGAIN, its not about "giving" an offer sheet. Thats not how it works. The player actually has to sign it.

I'm assuming Staal would sign it, which I don't think he would unless the $$ amounts are drastically different.

Gotta love the "I'm richer and more successful than you" line, though. I'm happy that you finally worked out the difference between "you're" and "your" too!

[Daniel]

I'll try and make this around your reading level:

IF THE RANGERS WANT TO SIGN PARISE TO AN 8+ MILLION OFFER SHEET, I WILL NOT MIND.

Find me one GM in the league that would trade FOUR first round picks for Parise.

And AGAIN, its not about "giving" an offer sheet. Thats not how it works. The player actually has to sign it.

I'm assuming Staal would sign it, which I don't think he would unless the $$ amounts are drastically different.

Gotta love the "I'm richer and more successful than you" line, though. I'm happy that you finally worked out the difference between "you're" and "your" too!

It's not a matter of being richer, just being able to leave the next before age 30.

And if you want to pick apart other people's typos on a fan message board, power to you. I'll just pick apart your dumb ideas.

[MartysGlove]

Am i wrong in thinking that:

1) Marc Staal (long term) is worth a 1st + 3rd

2) Parise (long term, even) is not worth $8+ million and 4 1st round picks

While I doubt it happens becasue its not the way Lou operates, I don't see too much that could go wrong.

Either we get Staal at 5-5.5 million (trading a 1st and a 3rd, which in our case are usually late picks anyways), who we can develop into a future defensive cornerstone

OR

We force the Rangers to spend 1-1.5 million extra on Staal, cap room that would hurt them in the future

It's not a matter of being richer, just being able to leave the next before age 30.

And if you want to pick apart other people's typos on a fan message board, power to you. I'll just pick apart your dumb ideas.

nest*

Go ahead, so far you are the only one to think its dumb.

[Devils731]

The Devils aren't going after anybodies RFAs because they don't want team trying to poach their RFAs, so it's all moot anyway.

[DevsFan7545]

Am i wrong in thinking that:1) Marc Staal (long term) is worth a 1st + 3rd 2) Parise (long term, even) is not worth $8+ million and 4 1st round picksWhile I doubt it happens becasue its not the way Lou operates, I don't see too much that could go wrong.Either we get Staal at 5-5.5 million (trading a 1st and a 3rd, which in our case are usually late picks anyways), who we can develop into a future defensive cornerstone ORWe force the Rangers to spend 1-1.5 million extra on Staal, cap room that would hurt them in the futurenest*Go ahead, so far you are the only one to think its dumb.

I do think Parise is worth 8Mil, but not 4 1st and 8mil

[MartysGlove]

The Devils aren't going after anybodies RFAs because they don't want team trying to poach their RFAs, so it's all moot anyway.

I don't buy the "revenge" card for RFAs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_who_have_signed_offer_sheets

I don't see one "revenge" offer sheet signing here.. EDIT: nvm, there is indeed one from 2008.

Media makes it more negative than it ought to be. Offer sheets and Restricted FA is part of the game and the current CBA, not using it due to fear of retribution is ridiculous.

Edited July 14, 2010 by MartysGlove

[Devils731]

I don't buy the "revenge" card for RFAs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_who_have_signed_offer_sheets

I don't see one "revenge" offer sheet signing here.. EDIT: nvm, there is indeed one from 2008.

Media makes it more negative than it ought to be. Offer sheets and Restricted FA is part of the game and the current CBA, not using it due to fear of retribution is ridiculous.

If there wasn't fear then more GMs would do it.

The positives of doing it aren't outweighed by the negatives you open yourself up to. That's the reason barely anyone does it, not because they couldn't use it to hurt other teams, but because they fear it's common use would hurt their team more.

It's also not a "revenge" thing. It's that the NHL GMs act in some ways like members of a club. In this club, if you start aggressively targeting other teams RFAs they're all going to feel comfortable all targeting your RFAs, while they normally will not go after RFAs if you are not. So you're not just worried about the team whose RFA you're looking it, you're worried about the whole league getting comfortable going after your RFAs later.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Devils731

[MartysGlove]

Only one of the 5 teams that signed an RFA to an offer sheet was ever a target of an offer sheet (since 2006, ie this CBA)

And that was a result of direct revenge (as well as a 2.5$ contract 1 year contract, not so crazy to match for Bernier)

Its not used imo because most teams will match any offer sheet to a good RFA, or the compensation would make it too costly to try.

The compensation is the "negative result" here, not the idea that you've opened Pandora's box.

So we sign Staal to an offer sheet, we open the can of worms.

Someone comes along and signs (if he would sign, which is another question) Parise to an offer sheet.

Its very simple. The Devils would easily (and without any hesitance) match any deal under 8 million.

Anything over, and the Devils easily (and without any hesitance) take the 4 1st round picks.

Offer sheets aren't used so often because you need unique situations to make them useful. Ala Sharks-Hawks this summer.

You need a player who is worth it (ala a player that would make 3+ million), a big enough hole on the offering team that overspending on the player would be worth it, and a cap-strapped team that would be in trouble if they match it (and trouble is what we are after here, getting Staal is the icing on the cake)

Signing an offer sheet over 5.5 million will never be done, its too much compensation. The compensation is what scares GMs from breaking the 'unwritten rule' not the 'unwritten rule' itself.

[mmajeski06]

It would be great to get Staal, but I just don't see it ever happening.

[Devils731]

Glove, your point with Staal is it was win/win for the Devils. Either they get a player for a compensation they like or they stick it to the Rangers by increasing the amount of space Staal takes up on their cap.

There are tons of situations like that, teams don't utilize them because they're more worried about their own RFAs.

For example, let us say you're correct about Staal, how come 29 other GMs in the league don't see this? They do, but something else is keeping them from giving Staal an offer sheet, so what is it?

[MartysGlove]

Glove, your point with Staal is it was win/win for the Devils. Either they get a player for a compensation they like or they stick it to the Rangers by increasing the amount of space Staal takes up on their cap.

There are tons of situations like that, teams don't utilize them because they're more worried about their own RFAs.

For example, let us say you're correct about Staal, how come 29 other GMs in the league don't see this? They do, but something else is keeping them from giving Staal an offer sheet, so what is it?

1) They don't have the need to trade a 1st and a 3rd for a PMD (edit: or the salary cap space/need for a PMD costing 4-5 mill)

2) If the Rangers match it, it doesn't help them or hurt them.

This is one of those unique situations where the Devils could either fill a hole on their own team or hurt a divisional rival.

If Marc Staal is on the Maple Leafs, I wouldn't care because if Burke would just match it, it wouldn't really be helping us out.

Edited July 14, 2010 by MartysGlove

[Devils731]

2) If the Rangers match it, it doesn't help them or hurt them.

"2) Result in the Rangers shelling out another million (which while it may seem like crumbs, in a salary cap world every bit helps) "

You do think it will hurt the Rangers.

You didn't answer my question, how come 29 other GMs don't see what you're seeing?

Also, is this situation so unique that out of the many, many RFAs each year there is only a little over 1 unique situation a year?

The "reward" of either an overpayed player or nothing isn't worth the risk of other GMs feeling more comfortable poaching your RFAs, that's why they rarely happen.

[MartysGlove]

"2) Result in the Rangers shelling out another million (which while it may seem like crumbs, in a salary cap world every bit helps) "

You do think it will hurt the Rangers.

You didn't answer my question, how come 29 other GMs don't see what you're seeing?

Also, is this situation so unique that out of the many, many RFAs each year there is only a little over 1 unique situation a year?

The "reward" of either an overpayed player or nothing isn't worth the risk of other GMs feeling more comfortable poaching your RFAs, that's why they rarely happen.

You misunderstand.

The other 29 GM's don't gain an advantage if the Rangers spend the extra few million. It doesn't hurt or help THEIR teams (not the referring to the Rangers).

The situation has to be very unique, especially considering you need to actually have the player sign the offer sheet. Its essentially signing an UFA while trading for the same UFA.

[Devils731]

You misunderstand.

The other 29 GM's don't gain an advantage if the Rangers spend the extra few million. It doesn't hurt or help THEIR teams (not the referring to the Rangers).

The situation has to be very unique, especially considering you need to actually have the player sign the offer sheet. Its essentially signing an UFA while trading for the same UFA.

It's not that unique. There are plenty of RFAs that could help out other teams who end up taking a lower dollar amount to stay at their current team. It's not because all of them are altruistic, it's because nobody offered them more.

James Neal is another example this year. You see people talking about how their team should be making a pitch for him, he'd be perfect, they could offer him a contract amount that is reasonable that might be more than the Stars are willing to match...but nobody has done it yet. There is a reason, and it's not because every GM in the league doesn't study this stuff.

BTW, if another team in the league has less cap space it does help your team, because there is less available money to be used by that team to bid for free agents in the future.

[MartysGlove]

1) They don't have the need to trade a 1st and a 3rd for a PMD (edit: or the salary cap space/need for a PMD costing 4-5 mill)

2) If the Rangers match it, it doesn't help them or hurt them.

Those are my reasons why other GMs aren't jumping all over it.

Only teams that would benefit from the Rangers salary cap issues (ie divisonal rivals and teams that usually compete for the same playoff spot as the Rangers)

I could be wrong but I reckon there hasn't been one cross-conference offer sheet given under this CBA.

Please take that list of offer sheets in the past few years and show me how opening Pandora's box resulted in any of those GM's being thrown offer sheets.

It happened once and has been blown up ever since.

You are essentially telling me that a GM would wait for his own team to be taken advantage of through an offer sheet before he would take advantage of another team through an offer sheet.

Like "Oh since you punched me I will now punch another team, thank you for allowing me to punch other teams"

I don't buy it.