trailblazer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) I'll never give up my tickets over it because it's my passion, I just find it frustrating that I have trouble selling a $37 face value ticket for $10 on StubHub.. And I've seen other $37 tickets selling for $2 on StubHub.. A lot of tickets for the 2/8 game were selling for around $5.. I just can't see poor play and history being a huge enough factor to create such a depreciation in value, although I agree it's a major factor.. But my theory on the downward cycle is not assumption.. Think about it.. If, back in December, you bought an $85 lower level ticket to the Feb. 1st game against Ottawa and then saw the team selling the same seat for $26 a few days before the game as a promotion, would you be annoyed? More importantly, would you buy early next time or wait? Well last season I missed 14, but this season I'll probably miss closer to 20.. So I sell about 18 per season because of school, vacations, family events, etc.. I never miss a game if I have the ability to attend.. Keep in mind, we are talking about a pair of tickets too.. So the $24 vs $15 difference ends up being $18 plus fees.. That's enough to make someone go with the cheaper option, although I really think that when choosing between 2 equal seats, anyone in their right mind will take the cheaper option even if it's a $5 difference maybe you should look at a partial plan then. i listed a slew of benefits that you are getting by being a STH. that should offset any "losses" you take when you cant go. Edited February 12, 2011 by trailblazer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 But my theory on the downward cycle is not assumption.. Think about it.. If, back in December, you bought an $85 lower level ticket to the Feb. 1st game against Ottawa and then saw the team selling the same seat for $26 a few days before the game as a promotion, would you be annoyed? More importantly, would you buy early next time or wait? I wouldnt have bought an $85 ticket in December. We knew how the team were the playing in December. Even if I had bought it in August (or whenever single game tickets go onsale) I'd not have been annoyed if someone else got tickets for $3 either. Back in August, Id have expected the team to be good. Also, the lower level tickets, while yes are depreciated many times, more often than not you can't get a lower level ticket to any game for under $30 at the absolute latest/lowest on the day of the game (speaking StubHub), obviously the Devils run promotions like the Allstar thing for the Carolina game, but the more expensive tickets are not like the upper levels which are the rock bottom tickets on the resale market. The market goes as the team goes. If they're playing like crap, tickets are going to be had cheaply. Id much rather the team be in first and paying retail, but when the team is not in a position to contend, the value of the game depreciates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I wouldnt have bought an $85 ticket in December. We knew how the team were the playing in December. Even if I had bought it in August (or whenever single game tickets go onsale) I'd not have been annoyed if someone else got tickets for $3 either. Back in August, Id have expected the team to be good. I didn't ask what you would have and would not have done lol.. I said imagine you did this.. So let's take it to a bigger extreme.. By your answer, you're saying that if the team gave free tickets to every game in your section for the remainder of the season, you'd be okay with it? Interesting.. Can't really argue with that lol.. Personally, I wouldn't be okay with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 maybe you should look at a partial plan then. i listed a slew of benefits that you are getting by being a STH. that should offset any "losses" you take when you cant go. It hasn't offset losses this year lol.. I got the 2x season tix, which I thought would be awesome.. Basically means I'm pay $12 per ticket for 4 ticket, rather than $24 per ticket for 2.. But I can't even break even there because uppers are reselling consistently for less than $12 (and actually, I have to list them on StubHub for $16.50 a piece to account for fees and the $2 charge to email the tix).. So it actually just shows that even at $12 a piece, my season tickets are somehow overpriced.. Part of my solution (the tiered pricing) is also meant to help sales in general.. This isn't all about me losing money.. I genuinely think a different pricing strategy would benefit the team's sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan26 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 My input in this debate is that season ticket holders that are unhappy with all the discounts etc. could easily just decide to not be season ticket holders. If they don't want to give up their season tickets because they like all the other perks, then oh well that's their choice. We know from experience there will be plenty of discounts announced during the season so nobody is being wronged or ripped off by being a season ticket holder unless for some reason you really didn't know that would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 My input in this debate is that season ticket holders that are unhappy with all the discounts etc. could easily just decide to not be season ticket holders. If they don't want to give up their season tickets because they like all the other perks, then oh well that's their choice. We know from experience there will be plenty of discounts announced during the season so nobody is being wronged or ripped off by being a season ticket holder unless for some reason you really didn't know that would happen. It's not an easy thing to give up when it becomes part of your life for 4,5....even 10.....20 years.... you had a certain level of passion that pushed you to that point... and when you give it up a certain level of passion dies with it.... trust me on that one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArmySports Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It would be cool if the Devils would have an exchange program where you could lets say trade games that you know you can't make for another game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I didn't ask what you would have and would not have done lol.. I said imagine you did this.. So let's take it to a bigger extreme.. By your answer, you're saying that if the team gave free tickets to every game in your section for the remainder of the season, you'd be okay with it? Interesting.. Can't really argue with that lol.. Personally, I wouldn't be okay with that If they cant sell the seats, they are still hoping to make money from merchandise, parking, and food. Id much rather have the seat full than the seat empty. Its not a lot of fun sitting in a half full arena. You're complaining about something that you chose to do. The Devils have to do what they can to at least make some money out of an empty seat when the team is playing poorly. They may get a free ticket to the game, but they're not all getting free parking, free food, or a free hat. You still have your same seats to every single game. As for the STH argument, again, season tickets are an investment in the team. Its the same as buying a stock almost. When you buy the stock, it could be doing well, but if it does poorly, thats the risk you took. Again, it boils down to how the team are doing. The resale market reacts as the teams play. Take a look at the Knicks. Back in November, I was going to Knicks games for $10-$12 (before fees) a pop during the week (via StubHub) for 300 levels. Now, its rare you can get a ticket to the Knicks under $20 because they are playing well. If you decide not to buy seasons again because of this, the team starts playing well, someone else will buy those seats. A bad team on the ice is bad in many respects it keeps casual fans at home because they dont want to pay full price to see a bad team. If you're a hardcore fan, it doesnt matter how the team plays. There are far more casual fans at every game than hardcore fans. The casual fan is who they want to become hardcore and be a future STH. As trailblazer pointed out, there are perks to being a STH. Us non-STH's dont get access to meet and greets, and gifts (regardless if they're poo) and stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 It's not an easy thing to give up when it becomes part of your life for 4,5....even 10.....20 years.... you had a certain level of passion that pushed you to that point... and when you give it up a certain level of passion dies with it.... trust me on that one...... I have the upmost respect for you for giving up your seats to make your point heard.. I don't think some people understand my point of view, but I've explained it to death at this point lol.. Basically, I don't mind the discounts except when they effect my ability to resell for around what I paid.. So it's only for games I can't attend.. If you sit next to me at a game I'm at, and you got a discount for less, I don't care at all.. Some STH do though.. There's a difference between my reasons for disliking the discounts and other STH's reasons for disliking discounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailblazer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It hasn't offset losses this year lol.. I got the 2x season tix, which I thought would be awesome.. Basically means I'm pay $12 per ticket for 4 ticket, rather than $24 per ticket for 2.. But I can't even break even there because uppers are reselling consistently for less than $12 (and actually, I have to list them on StubHub for $16.50 a piece to account for fees and the $2 charge to email the tix).. So it actually just shows that even at $12 a piece, my season tickets are somehow overpriced.. Part of my solution (the tiered pricing) is also meant to help sales in general.. This isn't all about me losing money.. I genuinely think a different pricing strategy would benefit the team's sales Colin, You won the Double Season Tickets from Frozen Over and your still not happy? Come on maaaaaaaaaan. you have 4 tickets to every game for $48. $12 a ticket and your worried about taking a loss on tickets your trying to re-sell. Plus all the STH benefits you are getting. No disrespect but your argument just went down the toilet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Colin, You won the Double Season Tickets from Frozen Over and your still not happy? Come on maaaaaaaaaan. you have 4 tickets to every game for $48. $12 a ticket and your worried about taking a loss on tickets your trying to re-sell. Plus all the STH benefits you are getting. No disrespect but your argument just went down the toilet. You reading my posts? At $12 I'm still taking losses on games I can't sell.. Imagine if I didn't have the 2x season tix? It would be an even bigger loss per ticket.. I know, it's unbelievable to me as well.. For games I can attend, it's definitely very cool to go with 4 people.. But next season I might not have the 2x.. Instead of taking, let's say, a $4 hit per ticket ($16 per game) I'll be taking a $16 hit per ticket ($32 per game).. $32 per game is losing $100 if I can't make 3 games.. That's a lot for 3 games, imo Edited February 12, 2011 by Colin226 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailblazer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 You reading my posts? At $12 I'm still taking losses on games I can't sell.. Imagine if I didn't have the 2x season tix? It would be an even bigger loss per ticket.. I know, it's unbelievable to me as well.. For games I can attend, it's definitely very cool to go with 4 people.. But next season I might not have the 2x.. Instead of taking, let's say, a $4 hit per ticket ($16 per game) I'll be taking a $16 hit per ticket ($32 per game).. $32 per game is losing $100 if I can't make 3 games.. That's a lot for 3 games, imo Your talking about taking a $4 hit on tickets...I'm done with this discussion. If your gonna be this analytical I suggest you dont buy season tickets and just buy the games you want. The Devils gave you 4 tix for the price of 2 ($12/ticket) and your concerned about the promo's they run and how it hurts your chances of re-selling. Get a clue man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan525 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'll add my 2 cents.. I've discussed the issue with Colin through PMs. I understand both sides of the debate, but I definitely agree with the STH argument, and feel that STH value can be maintained through improving the pricing & promos. This quote from the Lightning sums up the way STH should be treated. “As our number one stakeholders, our season ticket holders deserve benefits and experiences that nobody else can receive,” said Lightning Chief Executive Officer Tod Leiweke. Should STH pay a lower price per ticket - Yes Should STH get extra benefits - Yes Should the Devils offer discounts to try to fill in the arena on slow nights - Yes However - the Devils should know what teams/nights are going to be weak in terms of ticket sales (weeknights, western teams, etc). Therefore, they can set up all of the discount nights (college nights, family packs, guys night out, etc.) at the start of the season, and those are it. Eliminate the waiting element of "i'm not going to buy tickets for that game, I know that they'll email out a $15-20 ticket offer the week before the game." The only other discount would be for groups. Make all of the discounted ticket prices no less than the STH price for that section, and season tickets wont be devalued. Also, the upper deck needs to go back to the scaled pricing that was in place the first few seasons. Making all of the 200's, minus the corners, the same price turned away a lot of STH and meant that the fan looking to buy tickets to a single game had the cheapest option of $37. In 08-09, it was 25-30-38 for box office pricing in the 200's, and there seemed to be more people throughout the 200s, rather than just the middle. A tiered system of premium/non-premium games would also help ticket sales, as the division games will still sell out at a higher price, and some of the lesser games would benefit from a lower price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Your talking about taking a $4 hit on tickets...I'm done with this discussion. $4 * 44 * 4 tickets is $704 .....if that's not a big deal to you.... write him a check for it.... just sayin..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailblazer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 $4 * 44 * 4 tickets is $704 .....if that's not a big deal to you.... write him a check for it.... just sayin..... 2 of the 4 tickets were free and still not satisfied. I'm sure there were games Colin sold the 2 free tix. Even if he got $10/ticket....it was FREE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArmySports Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 $4 * 44 * 4 tickets is $704 .....if that's not a big deal to you.... write him a check for it.... just sayin..... Agreed, I pay $30 per ticket per game and if I get $10 per ticket reselling I'm now losing $40! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 2 of the 4 tickets were free and still not satisfied. I'm sure there were games Colin sold the 2 free tix. Even if he got $10/ticket....it was FREE! You completely fail to understand in any way what I'm saying.. I pay $48 for 2 tickets to every game (so $24 per ticket per game).. Still with me? Okay, but I get 2 free ticket to every game, so doing elementary math, you could also say I pay $48 for all 4 tickets (so $12 per ticket per game).. We good so far? So let's break it down and just look at this Wednesday's game against Carolina.. Tickets on StubHub, for comparable upper level seats, are currently selling for $6 a piece.. Meaning, if I list my seats at $12 a piece to break even, no one is going to buy them because they can get practically the same seats for $6 a piece.. So how do I get rid of the seats since I can't attend?? I sell them for $6 or less to remain competitive with the other resellers.. I hope you are following this rudimentary business concept.. Here is the loss breakdown below: Seat #: what i paid - what i have to sell for = loss Seat 1: $12 - $6 = ($6) Seat 2: $12 - $6 = ($6) Seat 3: $12 - $6 = ($6) Seat 4: $12 - $6 = ($6) Total Loss = $24 Analysis: Even though I got 2 free tickets, I still lost money.. That's not even factoring in that StubHub collects a fee, so really I'd only get about $3-$4 per ticket sold and my loss would be even greater.. Clear? ***** Now, imagine that I didn't get super lucky and did not win the 2x season tickets.. I would then be paying $48 for 2 tickets ($24 per ticket per game).. Let's do the same analysis for the same Hurricanes game this Wednesday.. Seat #: what i paid - what i have to sell for = loss Seat 1: $24 - $6 = ($18) Seat 2: $24 - $6 = ($18) Total Loss = $36 Analysis: If I didn't get lucky by receiving the 2x season tickets, I'd really be losing money!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane1091 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Some games you lose money, some you make money. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) I'll add my 2 cents.. I've discussed the issue with Colin through PMs. I understand both sides of the debate, but I definitely agree with the STH argument, and feel that STH value can be maintained through improving the pricing & promos. This quote from the Lightning sums up the way STH should be treated. “As our number one stakeholders, our season ticket holders deserve benefits and experiences that nobody else can receive,” said Lightning Chief Executive Officer Tod Leiweke. Should STH pay a lower price per ticket - Yes Should STH get extra benefits - Yes Should the Devils offer discounts to try to fill in the arena on slow nights - Yes However - the Devils should know what teams/nights are going to be weak in terms of ticket sales (weeknights, western teams, etc). Therefore, they can set up all of the discount nights (college nights, family packs, guys night out, etc.) at the start of the season, and those are it. Eliminate the waiting element of "i'm not going to buy tickets for that game, I know that they'll email out a $15-20 ticket offer the week before the game." The only other discount would be for groups. Make all of the discounted ticket prices no less than the STH price for that section, and season tickets wont be devalued. Also, the upper deck needs to go back to the scaled pricing that was in place the first few seasons. Making all of the 200's, minus the corners, the same price turned away a lot of STH and meant that the fan looking to buy tickets to a single game had the cheapest option of $37. In 08-09, it was 25-30-38 for box office pricing in the 200's, and there seemed to be more people throughout the 200s, rather than just the middle. A tiered system of premium/non-premium games would also help ticket sales, as the division games will still sell out at a higher price, and some of the lesser games would benefit from a lower price. Beautifully said and thank you for your input Some games you lose money, some you make money. It is what it is. Completely agree, but I feel that the team's last-minute deals drastically increase the amount of frequency of losses.. Poor play is absolutely a big factor to it, but devilsfan525 summed up the problem and solution very nicely Like for this Wednesday, the team is now selling balcony seats for $22 a piece.. It's a last-minute deal, and had I not been one of the lucky few to receive 2x season tickets, I would have to at least drop my resale price from $24 (what I paid) to $22 to match the sale.. But even then, who would pay $22 for an upper level seat when you could pay the same price for a balcony seat? Very few would, and if so, it would only be because they preferred the upper level view Edited February 12, 2011 by Colin226 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan26 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Beautifully said and thank you for your input Completely agree, but I feel that the team's last-minute deals drastically increase the amount of frequency of losses.. Poor play is absolutely a big factor to it, but devilsfan525 summed up the problem and solution very nicely Like for this Wednesday, the team is now selling balcony seats for $22 a piece.. It's a last-minute deal, and had I not been one of the lucky few to receive 2x season tickets, I would have to at least drop my resale price from $24 (what I paid) to $22 to match the sale.. But even then, who would pay $22 for an upper level seat when you could pay the same price for a balcony seat? Very few would, and if so, it would only be because they preferred the upper level view That's why I'm saying you could just drop your season tickets. I had a partial plan the last few years and this year decided it was better to just buy individual tickets, mostly when there are discounts. I don't have to worry about overpaying at face value and I don't have to worry about selling tickets to games I can't attend. There is nothing stopping you from doing that too. If you want to keep getting your season ticket holder perks you are weighing that against the nuisance of discounted tickets and having to lose money on games you can't attend. You know you will face the same problems every year so if you keep renewing your season tickets then the perks outweigh the discount issue for you, so I can't really say I feel sorry for you or any other season ticket holders. That is why I stopped getting my partial plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailblazer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 That's why I'm saying you could just drop your season tickets. I had a partial plan the last few years and this year decided it was better to just buy individual tickets, mostly when there are discounts. I don't have to worry about overpaying at face value and I don't have to worry about selling tickets to games I can't attend. There is nothing stopping you from doing that too. If you want to keep getting your season ticket holder perks you are weighing that against the nuisance of discounted tickets and having to lose money on games you can't attend. You know you will face the same problems every year so if you keep renewing your season tickets then the perks outweigh the discount issue for you, so I can't really say I feel sorry for you or any other season ticket holders. That is why I stopped getting my partial plan. i agree 100%. Colin you got 2 FREE tix this year. Obviously still not satisfied. Don't renew your season tickets. Buy the games you want and take advantage of the promos. Just dont get mad when you dont get the perks of being a STH. I really cant believe we are discussing listing $12 tickets to try to re-sell and compete with $6. Utter non sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 That's why I'm saying you could just drop your season tickets. I had a partial plan the last few years and this year decided it was better to just buy individual tickets, mostly when there are discounts. I don't have to worry about overpaying at face value and I don't have to worry about selling tickets to games I can't attend. There is nothing stopping you from doing that too. If you want to keep getting your season ticket holder perks you are weighing that against the nuisance of discounted tickets and having to lose money on games you can't attend. You know you will face the same problems every year so if you keep renewing your season tickets then the perks outweigh the discount issue for you, so I can't really say I feel sorry for you or any other season ticket holders. That is why I stopped getting my partial plan. I'd say I'm 5 season away from feeling pushed enough to drop.. I'll be out of school next year so that should help.. And maybe the team will adopt the tiered pricing, making everyone happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 i agree 100%. Colin you got 2 FREE tix this year. Obviously still not satisfied. Don't renew your season tickets. Buy the games you want and take advantage of the promos. Just dont get mad when you dont get the perks of being a STH. I really cant believe we are discussing listing $12 tickets to try to re-sell and compete with $6. Utter non sense. It's like explaining Quantum Physics to a 4th grader, only this stuff isn't that hard I mathematically proved to you why your argument doesn't work and the free tickets still equal losing money.. This whole conversation appears to have completely gone miles over your head.. I don't even mind that you disagree as I wanted people to disagree with me and discuss, but you appear to be beyond reasoning.. Agree to disagree Let's see how the 2011 - 2012 pricing looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Some games you lose money, some you make money. It is what it is. I never once sold one of my season tickets for a profit (unless you considered someone handing me $30 for a $29 ticket and saying crap I don't have a single for you and them saying no worries)....anyone who buys DEVILS season tickets and expects to make a profit on them is a bit of a fool based on our attendance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailblazer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Crasher- agreed 100% This dude got free tickets and is worrying about re-selling. He needs to get a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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