Sockeye Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Just last week people were dogging Gomer for being one of the few guys on a winning team with a minus. Some people feel like this is a very meaningful stat, others disagree (like me). All you have to do is look at what has happened in the last week to understand why. Gomez went from something like a -3 (one of the worst on the team) and is now a +6, which is fourth best on the team among forwards. This in just a weeks time. Given how many games that have been played thus far, this is a good example of how fragile that stat is. If you looked last week, he's one of the worst on the team, and now he is one of the best. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nieuwy25 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I don't think +/- means much for forwards. So much depends on their defensive players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyelias Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 PP numbers skew +/- IMO. If a guy is involved in 25 or 30 ppg during the season but is a -3 does that really mean that he is a detriment to the team. Yes if we're only talking 5 on 5 hockey, but no if we are looking at his overall play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msweet Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Over the long season, +/- is a valuable tool for measuring a player's overall performance. It is not good in the medium. It is ok game to game, but a +1 or a -1 in a game itself is no idication. In a particular game when a player is -1 or +1 you can't necessarily draw a conclusion from that. But when a player is +5 or -3 you definitely can. Over the long season +/- is an indicator. For every +5 game Gomer has, there will be a moment when he jumps out of the player box on the ice and the other team scores. He gets a - even though he had nothing to do with the goal against. There are lots of other lucky/unlucky based +/- scenarios. But every player faces these and over time luck balances out and the better player tend to generate high +/- (relative to members of their own team) Gomer and Elais play on the same line, on the pp, and Elias plays on the pk and Elias gets double shifted on our worst lines at the ends of games. Elias is beter defensively and thus his +/- is higher even given worse odds than Gomer. +/- is about team play to some extent, so it is fair to compair +/- within a team, but to compare a Devil's +/- with an Ottawa's +/-, since they score lots of goals. In conclusion. +/- isn't everything but it is important. At the end of a season, it is hard to measure the difference between a player with a +12 and one with a +17. But compare a +13 (Gionta) and Marshall(-8) and there is something to be said. Also Marshall, for example, is the only - starter on the team, and by far. There is definitely an issue there measured by +/- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 +/- is NOT included in special teams play. +/- is by far the best indicator that a player can play both ends of the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJayDevil Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Well if a SHG is scored, there's a +/-. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockeye Posted February 23, 2004 Author Share Posted February 23, 2004 +/- is NOT included in special teams play.+/- is by far the best indicator that a player can play both ends of the ice. I understand that's supposed to be the purpose of this stat, but my point is that it really is too inconsistent to be meaningful. As someone stated, you can really only compare players on the same team. And even with that, with 60 games played, Gomer's +/- is better than Maddens and Langenbrunners. Does that mean you think Gomers a better 2-way player than those guys? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Devil Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I look at +/- like they were SAT scores. If you remember correctly, the SAT people describe their scores as a "range" instead of a hard and fast score. Kinda like a 600 is 570 to 630 kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msweet Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 +/- is NOT included in special teams play.+/- is by far the best indicator that a player can play both ends of the ice. I understand that's supposed to be the purpose of this stat, but my point is that it really is too inconsistent to be meaningful. As someone stated, you can really only compare players on the same team. And even with that, with 60 games played, Gomer's +/- is better than Maddens and Langenbrunners. Does that mean you think Gomers a better 2-way player than those guys? I don't think so. I stated that about players on the same team. And yes, in fact, Gomer is a better OVERALL player this year. He may not be as good defensively, but he scores more at 5-5. That's what +/- is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyelias Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 GADevil.....you got a 600 on your SAT's??? Jeez....you get 400 pts for writing your name. J/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djstubbs Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 The reason Gomez was "-" was because he was on a bad line, and the chemistry wasn't great. Now with the EGG line back together everything should work smoothly. That was such a nice goal yesterday BTW, with all of the passing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas0nMacIsaac Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 The best defensive stats are blocked shots and takeaway/giveaway ratio IMO, there is no stat that indicates lost coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyelias Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Tom Poti would lead the league in lost coverage if there was such a stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.