Official 2014 New York Mets Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

And why not? His cushy retirement gig just got a little cushier.

 

Collins I knew would be retained. Sort of resigned myself it was going to happen, especially since they've exceed last years win totals. However Terry needs to be on a short leash next season where contention is expected.

 

Most of the guys who have been top Mets contributors this year and look to be in the future are Minaya guys with Wright being Phillips.

 

Way to go Wilpons...extend the guy who never wanted the job and has absolutely zero passion for three more years.

 

The Loser Brigade gets to keep going.  I just hope the young guys all pan out, because we know Passive ain't doing anything noteworthy...and considering his idea of noteworthy was to spend his limited funds on Curtis fvcking Grander-Bay and $20 million on a starting pitcher he didn't need, maybe it's better he doesn't do much.

 

No accountability here, ever. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

deGrom and Lagares shut down.  I can understand it in Lagares' case.  Would've like to see deGrom get a shot at 10 wins, but this is the era we live in now.  Treat every pitcher like they're made of glass, even though it's been shown time and time again that babying arms isn't preventing injuries one bit. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Friggin' Colon.  Arrrrgh.

['7']

Friggin' Colon.  Arrrrgh.

 

Fails to cover a base, then throws a meatball to Laroche (can we like learn to treat him like Bonds by now?) if he wasn't so lazy this inning would've been over with no damage.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just sucks that the Mets are going to be stuck with him next year.  I know he had some good runs, but next year he's going to be in the way...all goes back to the same thing, really...though some will say "no such thing", the Mets have too many starting arms right now...or at the very least, enough that they don't need Colon and his money accounting for 1/8th of next year's payroll. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Atlanta is just completely mailing it in now...they were once 49-38.  They're 27-43 since.  5-17 in their last 22.  Yikes.

 

Mets need to win their remaining five games to finish .500, but at the rate Atlanta's going, the Mets will probably only have to win 2 or 3 of their last 5 to finish in second place.  If they pull it off, wonderful I guess, but I don't want to hear Terry, Sandy, the Wilpons or anyone else associated with the Mets make a big deal out of it and try to make it sound like this team took a major step forward.  Finishing with a losing record and a distant second behind a team that embarrassed the Mets seemingly every chance they had is nothing to pop champagne corks over. 

 

That being said, yes, there were clear positives this season.  I'd say deGrom was #1, Duda #2 (though I need to see him do this again, and he's still suspect in big spots against better pitchers).  Familia really did a nice job...I still would like to see him get a shot at closing...Mejia is shaky.  Though it doesn't show up in all of his numbers (mostly because he enjoyed a lot of good fortune last season), Wheeler did show improvement, especially as the season wore on...he allowed more than 2 ER in just 2 out of his last 15 starts, though we probably have to accept that he'll never be as efficient as we'd like him to be.  Hopefully the Mets are done with giving Tejada chances...he's young and was probably better overall than we expected, but it's enough.  Looks like Flores will get the first shot at SS next season, and if that doesn't pan out, then it's going to be Reynolds. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Hard to believe 2013 Part Deux, AKA 2014, is almost over.  Mets can finish anywhere from second to fourth.  I prefer fourth for draft position, and that it will save me from having to hear "We were a second place in team in 2014!" from the organization.

 

Gee in Game 1, Wheeler in Game 2.  Hard to believe they're making their last starts of the season.  Hope Zack has a good one...would love to see his season numbers not take a hit. 

 

BTW, Zack's numbers after his June 25 disaster vs. Oakland:  16 starts, 89 IP, 86 H, 44 ER, 37 BB, 91 K, 3-8 record, 4.45 ERA

From June 25 on:  15 starts, 91.1 IP, 77 H, 26 ER, 39 BB, 89 K, 8-2 record, 2.56 ERA 

 

For now, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that he's going to be a 6-7 IP guy who won't make it look easy (he remains walk-prone and isn't really a hit-suppressor yet), but the guy who started the last 15 games is giving his team a reasonable chance to win in almost every start.  I'll take 6-7 IP of that in 80% of his starts or so. 

Hard to believe 2013 Part Deux, AKA 2014, is almost over.  Mets can finish anywhere from second to fourth.  I prefer fourth for draft position, and that it will save me from having to hear "We were a second place in team in 2014!" from the organization.

 

Gee in Game 1, Wheeler in Game 2.  Hard to believe they're making their last starts of the season.  Hope Zack has a good one...would love to see his season numbers not take a hit. 

 

BTW, Zack's numbers after his June 25 disaster vs. Oakland:  16 starts, 89 IP, 86 H, 44 ER, 37 BB, 91 K, 3-8 record, 4.45 ERA

From June 25 on:  15 starts, 91.1 IP, 77 H, 26 ER, 39 BB, 89 K, 8-2 record, 2.56 ERA 

 

For now, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that he's going to be a 6-7 IP guy who won't make it look easy (he remains walk-prone and isn't really a hit-suppressor yet), but the guy who started the last 15 games is giving his team a reasonable chance to win in almost every start.  I'll take 6-7 IP of that in 80% of his starts or so. 

['7']

Met give Gee a 4-1 lead and he craps all over it in the 5th with 5 straight singles and a balk in between. This guy is too hittable and throws BP far too often. Can't wait until he is out of this rotation

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Gee's numbers have not been good lately at all, especially in this era of diminished offense.  We've been over it before, but his timing sucks...Mets might get a decent warm body back or bad contract in a trade (latter isn't an option for this team...Mets already have two bad long-term contracts in Grander-Bay and Wright).  Speaking of Grandy...guess now that it's who-gives-a-sh!t time, he's making his mark.  Sorry Grandy...yes, you had a nice couple of months, but your year was largely sh!t.  The overall numbers are probably about we can expect from him (and aren't they kind of what we were expecting from Day 1?), which continues to make me wonder WTF Sandy was thinking, but we get to see decisions like this for three more years. 

 

Probably pointless to keep wondering about who is going to be in the rotation in 2015 (though I constantly do).  Gee might be one of those guys you hang onto in spring training and hope pitches well enough to draw more interest than he might be right now. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Kind of funny...I remember wondering if the Mets would go for a guy like Phil Hughes.  He got 3 years and $24 million from the Twins, which potentially would've made even less sense for the Mets than Colon at 2 years and $20 mil.

 

What's kind of funny is that Hughes has re-invented himself as a guy who pitches like Colon.  Walks almost no one, gives up a lot of hits, has some bad starts (though not as bad as Colon's worst this season), but keeps his teams in his fair share of games.  He went 16-10 with a 3.52 ERA...pretty nice return on that first year of his deal.  If he can turn in similar results in 2015 and 2016, the Twins have to be thrilled with what they got out of him.

 

And speaking of nice returns...look what Carlos Torres has given the Mets in two seasons.  Guy has really done a pretty nice job, and has shown that, as long as he's not overused, he often gets it done.  But since making his Mets debut on June 16 of last season, the Mets have gotten a lot out of him.  Great find, all things considered.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Saw Jeter's game-winning AB last night (wouldn't surprise me if Meek grooved it just a little...a couple of pitchers did the same with Mantle at the end...one catcher even said to him "Where do you want it?" just before Mantle hit his second-to-last career home run).  It was a great moment for Jeter, his teammates (past and current), and the Yankee fanbase.  From a strictly forensic standpoint, he was a good-to-very good player who had a knack for raising his game and coming up big when his team needed him to, in memorable spots, but describing him in such a way is clearly selling him short.  He is definitely nowhere near the level of Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle from a pure ability standpoint, but he definitely is on their level as far as the "special" aspect goes, which is why he keeps getting mentioned with them.  He means just as much to many Yankee fans as any other Yankee great...probably more to the ones who never got to see the "Mount Rushmore" guys play. 

 

I mention the above because I don't EVER want to hear anything along the lines of David Wright being "our Jeter" again.  For one, it's an insult to Jeter, the guy who actually gets it done in a lot of big moments and whose clutch ability has never been questioned.  For another, Wright is going to have to have a hell of a second half to his career, because right now he's as much a loser poster boy as Jeter is the opposite.      

Edited September 26, 2014 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[dmann422]

Thought on Harvey being at Yankee stadium last night and praising jeter on instagram? Honestly I don't really take issue but I can see how some people are seeing a pattern with him being a little too public when he really hasn't done much yet.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Thought on Harvey being at Yankee stadium last night and praising jeter on instagram? Honestly I don't really take issue but I can see how some people are seeing a pattern with him being a little too public when he really hasn't done much yet.

 

No problem here.  As a Met fan, I have a ton of respect for Jeter.  A lot of players in all leagues clearly do too, judging by their tweets. 

 

The Mets need a guy like Harvey in the worst way...to be the leader that David Wright is not capable of being...he cannot be the face of the franchise anymore.  The organization is meek, passive and entirely too content with losing, and fairly or unfairly, David is associated with that part of the Met culture....and even worse, the Mets as an organization have the balls to take umbrage with their fanbase for finally getting fed up with them. 

 

Harvey seems like the kind of guy who doesn't want to accept losing...not everyone will like him, but the Mets need a guy who actually says "Enough is enough."   

[dmann422]

Harvey seems like the kind of guy who doesn't want to accept losing...not everyone will like him, but the Mets need a guy who actually says "Enough is enough."

100% agree. It's a breath of fresh air to see a guy like that. At the same time I'm a little apprehensive about his public profile- I'm not saying the guy can't go out and have a good time but if he idolizes jeter so much maybe he can take a page out of his book.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

In a perfect world, the Mets would trade Wright (I know it seems like I hate him...I don't, I just think his career has run its course here and it's time for him and the team to part ways), but his contract makes that just about impossible.  $20 million per season over the next four years of what's looking like a diminished player...yikes.

 

Reyes is coming off a .328 OB% season in Toronto, is now 31, is seeing his slugging% drop (4th straight year that it has) and is due $22 million for each of the next three seasons, with either a fourth year at $22 mil or a $4 mil buyout.  Glad the Mets aren't on the hook for that, even if he's light-years better than what the Mets have put at short the past two seasons. 

['7']

*sigh* Niese pitching a very strong game and has to leave with an injury in the 6th up 1-0. Hope it's nothing arm related...I know he dropped into a deep squat after Recker threw it to 2nd...so maybe it's just a strained groin or something. Hopefully not anything arm related.

['7']

Saw Jeter's game-winning AB last night (wouldn't surprise me if Meek grooved it just a little...a couple of pitchers did the same with Mantle at the end...one catcher even said to him "Where do you want it?" just before Mantle hit his second-to-last career home run).  It was a great moment for Jeter, his teammates (past and current), and the Yankee fanbase.  From a strictly forensic standpoint, he was a good-to-very good player who had a knack for raising his game and coming up big when his team needed him to, in memorable spots, but describing him in such a way is clearly selling him short.  He is definitely nowhere near the level of Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle from a pure ability standpoint, but he definitely is on their level as far as the "special" aspect goes, which is why he keeps getting mentioned with them.  He means just as much to many Yankee fans as any other Yankee great...probably more to the ones who never got to see the "Mount Rushmore" guys play. 

 

I mention the above because I don't EVER want to hear anything along the lines of David Wright being "our Jeter" again.  For one, it's an insult to Jeter, the guy who actually gets it done in a lot of big moments and whose clutch ability has never been questioned.  For another, Wright is going to have to have a hell of a second half to his career, because right now he's as much a loser poster boy as Jeter is the opposite.      

 

 

I feel more bad for wright than angry at Wright. Especially since it has been revealed this year his shoulder was much worse than he let on...and may lead to surgery (which is partly his fault for not speaking up about it earlier) I think below the surface he's just seething and through with losing

 

A lot of the Jeter myth is jut myth and luck (the Giambi play, Posada never tagged the guy, the Maier HR) but a lot of the time he was flat out clutch to the max and I respect him for that. But Jeter playing on that heavy payroll Yankee machine gave him those postseason opportunities! Otherwise he's Paul Molitor

 

Who knows, maybe if the Mets spent the money and Wright is in the playoffs from 2007-2012...he has a bunch of clutch moments to hang his hat on too...but he never got that opportunity. And when he's had chances to be clutch in the regular season, he really hasn't.

 

Wrights career is littered with unknowns and what ifs

Edited September 27, 2014 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

*sigh* Niese pitching a very strong game and has to leave with an injury in the 6th up 1-0. Hope it's nothing arm related...I know he dropped into a deep squat after Recker threw it to 2nd...so maybe it's just a strained groin or something. Hopefully not anything arm related.

 

Elevated heart-rate.  Apparently it happened once before, a couple of years ago.  Supposedly not a big concern.

 

Niese finished up pretty well...26.1 IP, 24 H, 4 ER, 2 BB, 23 K.  Some of his numbers are pretty similar to 2012 (his best season to date).  The fact is, if he turns in a similar year next season, at a cost of $7 mil, and gets some run support (winning 12 or 13 games), he represents fair value.  You just wonder when that "out for the season" year is coming.  He feels like such a gamble sometimes, with all of his health scares.

 

 

I feel more bad for wright than angry at Wright. Especially since it has been revealed this year his shoulder was much worse than he let on...and may lead to surgery (which is partly his fault for not speaking up about it earlier) I think below the surface he's just seething and through with losing

 

A lot of the Jeter myth is jut myth and luck (the Giambi play, Posada never tagged the guy, the Maier HR) but a lot of the time he was flat out clutch to the max and I respect him for that. But Jeter playing on that heavy payroll Yankee machine gave him those postseason opportunities! Otherwise he's Paul Molitor

 

Who knows, maybe if the Mets spent the money and Wright is in the playoffs from 2007-2012...he has a bunch of clutch moments to hang his hat on too...but he never got that opportunity. And when he's had chances to be clutch in the regular season, he really hasn't.

 

Wrights career is littered with unknowns and what ifs

 

Even though you mention Paul Molitor (who clearly could hit plenty), you're kind of making it sound like Jeter was some .265 light-hitting SS who had a knack for coming up with the right hits at the right time, but was merely along for the ride.  I don't think you give him enough credit.  The guy was a terrific offensive player, especially for a SS, and had an insanely long prime...the comparison you can make to Marty is that they both had insanely long primes and were both incredibly durable to boot.  Jeter's high career-hit total is the best indicator of his consistency...guys who NEVER have a bad year from their age 22 to age 38 seasons are extremely hard to come by.  Jeter was a pretty significant contributor to those teams.

 

And let's face it, you can say the same thing about many great players who were fortunate enough to play on good teams.  As great as Mickey Mantle was, would he have been such a World Series beast without all of the talent on HIS teams?  My complaint about Wright is always the same...I know the Mets haven't exactly surrounded him with good players, but at the same time, like you say, he doesn't transcend and give his teammates something to build around.  When Jeter came up to the plate with a chance to turn the game, you felt good about his chances to get it done (obviously he wasn't 100%, no one is in a high-failure kind of game like baseball, but he did it more than enough that you felt good seeing him bat in big spots).  There's guys stuck on sh!t teams who still find ways to stubbornly put up pretty good numbers and make the most of the opportunities they get.  Wright doesn't.  He's always sinking right along with everyone else.  You have NO confidence in him getting it done when you need him to, and people need to stop making excuse after excuse for him and just accept that the guy isn't a winner, and the only way that he ever will be is if people stop thinking of him as anything more than a guy who SHOULD be along for the ride. 

['7']

Nice game winning HR by Duda there. Yea it's meaningless but he hit it off a lefty...which is nice

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Nice game winning HR by Duda there. Yea it's meaningless but he hit it off a lefty...which is nice

Duda will probably never do much against lefties, but at least he's had a nice offensive year...more than anyone could have expected. The huge question is can he do this consistently?

Montero's last three major-league starts were pretty good. He was hard to watch at times, but at least he got his feet wet.

Sounds crazy to say this, but I wonder if the Mets don't tender Gee, strictly so they won't be on the hook for paying him. He made $3.65 mil in arbitration last season...he'll probably get a small raise.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Duda with some more garbage-time fattening up, but guys who hit 30 HR and drive in 92 aren't exactly growing on trees right now.  His 30 HR were good for 3rd in the NL, and his 92 RBI were good for 6th.  His .830 OB+SLG ranked 14th.  It's going to take us all a while to adjust the way we look at glamour numbers (just like 30 HR and 92 RBI are much more impressive now than they were 10 years ago, ERAs in the high-3.00s aren't...game has changed a lot, and seemingly overnight).

 

So hard to believe Colon was a 15-game winner.  Funny, it wasn't pretty with him (and at times was very ugly), but if we had been told he'd make 31 starts, pitch over 200 IP (which no Mets pitcher seems to do anymore) and would be a 15-game winner, I think we all would've taken it pretty willingly.  You could actually kind of live with him as a 4th or 5th guy if you had any guarantee that he could repeat this season in 2016, and get a little more run support.  But the problems remain the same:  he's going to make too much money and there's too many young arms who are ready and rarin' to go (barring Sandy trading some of those young arms for other needs).  The big question is does Gee get tendered?  Like I said in the above post, the Mets may just decide they don't want to pay him $4 mil or so, even if it means they lose him for nothing.  IF the Mets want to keep Colon (it depends if Sandy thinks the Mets need at least one veteran in the rotation, though you can make the argument that Niese is also a veteran at this point in his career, despite that fact that he'll only be 28 years at the start of next season), then I can't see why they'd want to have about $4 mil in limited funds wrapped up in Gee, who clearly was not good down the stretch...especially since $18 million will be locked up in Niese ($7 mil) and Colon ($11 mil) next season...not to mention that deGrom and Wheeler already have spots in the rotation, and as long as Harvey is healthy and able to pitch (even if he's not the Harvey of 2013), he's got a spot too. 

 

During Montero's final start, the discussion in the booth was that the Mets envision Montero as a starter and don't really want to make him a bullpen guy. 

 

So many arms, so many decisions...       

[dmann422]

Well I would have said last week that this offseason was make or break for alderson but then the mets went and gave him an extension, so unfortunately that shows me that we should expect more of the same- bargain type acquisitions with low risk/high reward.

I'll be shocked if the payroll is above $95 mil starting next season.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Well I would have said last week that this offseason was make or break for alderson but then the mets went and gave him an extension, so unfortunately that shows me that we should expect more of the same- bargain type acquisitions with low risk/high reward.

I'll be shocked if the payroll is above $95 mil starting next season.

 

There's already been pretty strong indications that the Mets aren't upping the payroll by much next season, if at all.  On one hand it drives me crazy, but on another, Sandy hasn't exactly done a great job in FA, so I'm not sure I should be pining for him to spend money there...especially when a mistake can be crippling financially.  It also looks like the Mets have a lot of cheap bullpen arms to lean on too. 

 

We've been over it, but Murph is probably getting a nice raise over his 2014 figure of $5.7 mil...figure $8-9 mil in 2015 (his last arbitration year).  We've heard the numbers kicked around for 2016 and beyond...probably 4-5 years at $10-12 million per...of course, that pay rate could start in 2015 if the Mets decide to buy out his final arbitration year.  If the Mets re-sign him long-term (I wouldn't do it), you've got a lot of coin tied up in Murph, Wright, and Granderson...roughly half the team's payroll if it stays about the same the next three years, and all three of them are flawed.  Duda made $1,637,500 last season and is entering Arbitration Year #2 (he avoided it last year)...safe to say he's getting a hefty raise.  If he has another year similar to this one, he has two more arbitration years after this one...expect the Mets to think about trying to buy out his last arb years by offering a 4-5 year deal.  They need as much young cheap talent as they can bring up. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[dmann422]

There's already been pretty strong indications that the Mets aren't upping the payroll by much next season, if at all. On one hand it drives me crazy, but on another, Sandy hasn't exactly done a great job in FA, so I'm not sure I should be pining for him to spend money there...especially when a mistake can be crippling financially. It also looks like the Mets have a lot of cheap bullpen arms to lean on too.

We've been over it, but Murph is probably getting a nice raise over his 2014 figure of $5.7 mil...figure $8-9 mil in 2015 (his last arbitration year). We've heard the numbers kicked around for 2016 and beyond...probably 4-5 years at $10-12 million per...of course, that pay rate could start in 2015 if the Mets decide to buy out his final arbitration year. If the Mets re-sign him long-term (I wouldn't do it), you've got a lot of coin tied up in Murph, Wright, and Granderson...roughly half the team's payroll if it stays about the same the next three years, and all three of them are flawed. Duda made $1,637,500 last season and is entering Arbitration Year #2 (he avoided it last year)...safe to say he's getting a hefty raise. If he has another year similar to this one, he has two more arbitration years after this one...expect the Mets to think about trying to buy out his last arb years by offering a 4-5 year deal. They need as much young cheap talent as they can bring up.

yeah I guess I shouldn't be hoping for a big ticket FA since sandy has pretty much swung and missed so far in that's area. I just want to see a significant upgrade in some way.

You're right that Murphy will probably be traded and I'm not gonna argue it's wrong to do so BUT I don't want to see him moved for a prospect and only have Herrera or Flores starting at second and no additional upgrade in the outfield.

I mean it's obvious this team has been starved for offense since before sandy got here. In 4 years, the one guy he brought in that actually performed well in that department he traded. I'm appreciative that he's been trying to build the farm system up and set us up for long term success, but now it's time for results.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

yeah I guess I shouldn't be hoping for a big ticket FA since sandy has pretty much swung and missed so far in that's area. I just want to see a significant upgrade in some way.

You're right that Murphy will probably be traded and I'm not gonna argue it's wrong to do so BUT I don't want to see him moved for a prospect and only have Herrera or Flores starting at second and no additional upgrade in the outfield.

I mean it's obvious this team has been starved for offense since before sandy got here. In 4 years, the one guy he brought in that actually performed well in that department he traded. I'm appreciative that he's been trying to build the farm system up and set us up for long term success, but now it's time for results.

 

So curious to see how the Mets handle Murph.  They CAN keep him on a one-year deal and see how the season goes...if the Mets are contending and he's playing well, they can even keep him the entire season (and not move him at the deadline) and simply just let him walk.  Sure, on some levels that would suck (not getting anything back for him), but I'm not sure how much trade value he actually has.  Good for him for making the All-Star team this season, but he's really nothing more than a solid pro who, as has been discussed many times, has many flaws that he can't seem to improve upon (like his meh-ish OB% and lack of power).  His slash line from three seasons ago was .291/.332/.403/.735, last year it was .286/.319/.415/.734, and this season it was .289/.332/.403/.735.  He's consistently a pretty good bat, but as we know, he's a poor baserunner and a mediocre fielder, and he's now about to start making non-bargain money (and could soon be heading into his decline years), so if the Mets think Herrera needs more seasoning (maybe a full season of AAA), then the Mets might as well hang onto Murph and let him leave at the end of the year...the potential return via trade probably isn't going to be as sweet as some Met fans think it is.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Colorado Rockies 1976