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Hedberg to start Friday vs. Tampa Bay.


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#21 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:10 PM

..the Devils already made that mistake 2 years ago. Let's learn from our follies.


This gets brought up from time to time because all anyone remembers from that series are those last 80 godforsaken seconds. But we wouldn't have gotten to those last 80 godforsaken seconds if Marty didn't play his ass off throughout that series. Game 3 was a big one and Game 5 was probably one of his all-time best single playoff game performances.
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#22 Beezer34

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:10 PM

uh huh, not playing Clemmer in the playoffs was an epic mistake. he definitely would have gotten us through Game 5 and outplayed Marty.
you do realize he couldn't keep playing once Marty was activated, right?


Clemmer couldn't play on the team anymore, because the Devils did nothing to alleviate their issue at the time. (carrying 3 goalies)
And who's talking about playoffs? :noclue: The topic at hand here is team morale. There were over 20 games left in the regular season in 2009, when Clemmer was sent to the AHL after playing 40 games worth of NHL hockey. The Devils posted their best win/lose record in team history for the month of January under Clemmensen. Brodeur came back at the end of February, and the focus went from: *TEAM to *552. If you don't think Clemmer's treatment rubbed people the wrong way on that team, you're kidding yourself.

I'm not saying anything to knock Brodeur's legacy, I'm simply saying the obvious. He is in the twilight of his career and (despite the fact that his name is Martin Brodeur) he does not give the team any better chance at winning games, than any other competent goalie the Devils can net. I understand this (to some) is viewed as "hate talk", but it is no where near.
Über fans of his, don't want to face this reality.. because they're in love with him. I get that. But the body of work this organization has put out in his absence (and no, I'm not just talking about 2009) speaks for itself.

Go back from the 2006-2007 season till now. Check the stats since then, and see for yourself.
.570 winning percentage for Brodeur, over the last 4 seasons.
.573 winning percentage for the backups, over the last 4 seasons.

Be it Yann Danis, Kevin Weekes, Scott Clemmensen, or Johan Hedberg.. the Devils have proved they are just as competitive with *insert-name* than a 34 year old plus Brodeur.
..again, this is no slight to Brodeur's career. Just the sad facts of father time.

Edited by Beezer34, 24 February 2011 - 08:12 PM.

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#23 SS#4-Life

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:23 PM

Clemmer couldn't play on the team anymore, because the Devils did nothing to alleviate their issue at the time. (carrying 3 goalies)
And who's talking about playoffs? :noclue: The topic at hand here is team morale. There were over 20 games left in the regular season in 2009, when Clemmer was sent to the AHL after playing 40 games worth of NHL hockey. The Devils posted their best win/lose record in team history for the month of January under Clemmensen. Brodeur came back at the end of February, and the focus went from: *TEAM to *552. If you don't think Clemmer's treatment rubbed people the wrong way on that team, you're kidding yourself.

I'm not saying anything to knock Brodeur's legacy, I'm simply saying the obvious. He is in the twilight of his career and (despite the fact that his name is Martin Brodeur) he does not give the team any better chance at winning games, than any other competent goalie the Devils can net. I understand this (to some) is viewed as "hate talk", but it is no where near.
Über fans of his, don't want to face this reality.. because they're in love with him. I get that. But the body of work this organization has put out in his absence (and no, I'm not just talking about 2009) speaks for itself.

Go back from the 2006-2007 season till now. Check the stats since then, and see for yourself.
.570 winning percentage for Brodeur, over the last 4 seasons.
.573 winning percentage for the backups, over the last 4 seasons.

Be it Yann Danis, Kevin Weekes, Scott Clemmensen, or Johan Hedberg.. the Devils have proved they are just as competitive with *insert-name* than a 34 year old plus Brodeur.
..again, this is no slight to Brodeur's career. Just the sad facts of father time.

y did u pick from the 2006-07 season on? a bit early for a goalie to decline

Edited by SS#4-Life, 24 February 2011 - 08:24 PM.

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#24 maxpower

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:26 PM

Clemmer sucked. There, I said it. the team played better and the coach played scared of his goalie. what we did during that streak was not what we did in the playoffs, short of the first four periods of that series.

as soon as they tied Game 2 at the end of the first, the Devils pretty much mentally went into the sh!tter, to a man. Marty is the only reason what happened happened, as pointed out. they gave about 30 minutes of solid hockey the rest of the series. it was like a switch went off, from total dominance, to "oh well, let's just go home".
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#25 Beezer34

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:28 PM

y did u pick from the 2006-07 season on? a bit early for a goalie to decline


..because that was the season Marty turned 35, and imo began to gradually show mileage.

And yes, it is a bit early for a goalie to ripen. But he was never really considered a "health freak" by any means. Plus Brodeur aged harder because of the games per season he played throughout his entire career. Eventually it catches up to you.
12 straight seasons of 70 games a year or more?! :huh:

Edited by Beezer34, 24 February 2011 - 08:29 PM.

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#26 maxpower

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:33 PM

I don't think he should be playing that many games, but neither should Moose. they need to ride the hot hand to a point, but playing him into the ground isn't the answer as much as playing Marty into the ground isn't, especially since Moose is not the better goalie of the two.

they need to get to a platoon ASAP. like I said, the answer to a Moose bad game isn't playing Marty 18 times in a row either. the longer they sit one or the other, the more likely it is one will be run into the ground and the other will be a total rustbucket.
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#27 NJDevs4978

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 08:54 PM

The Devils posted their best win/lose record in team history for the month of January under Clemmensen. Brodeur came back at the end of February, and the focus went from: *TEAM to *552. If you don't think Clemmer's treatment rubbed people the wrong way on that team, you're kidding yourself.


And the team won like nine of ten or something like that when Brodeur came back...it wasn't rubbing people the wrong way during 552 when the focus WAS all on Marty. It was only after it that the decline started, at first they had nothing else to play for but when they did start to get in a slump Sutter responded by coaching scared the rest of the season. The checking line didn't really exist during the Clemmensen run and it was brought back in force on the eve of the playoffs.

And it's funny how you say Marty was never a health freak, maybe that's true but he had amazing durability till 2008 and even last year played 70+ games at a high level, no small feat for a 37-year old. I do find it ironic that some of the same people that were worried about running Marty into the ground (and I was in that group) aren't worried about doing the same to a 38-year old Hedberg. Even if Hedberg continues to win Marty'll have to play at SOME point.

Go back from the 2006-2007 season till now. Check the stats since then, and see for yourself.
.570 winning percentage for Brodeur, over the last 4 seasons.
.573 winning percentage for the backups, over the last 4 seasons.


And I'm sure none of that has to do with the fact Brodeur was playing the majority of the games early in the season when we had the worst coach in the history of the NHL and everyone was playing far below potential. Hedberg couldn't win then either, other than that one week (without Langs lol) in late November. Or that he got hurt now just when he and the Devils were both starting to roll again.

I love how he's handling this with all class (as usual) and yet people are still ripping on him, guess the rap on this board being anti-Marty is true. When he got benched in January all you heard then was he didn't want to play when he was again being classy about sitting. Now that we're playing well and it's still the case not a peep about that.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 24 February 2011 - 09:05 PM.

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#28 Beezer34

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:17 PM

And the team won like nine of ten or something like that when Brodeur came back...it wasn't rubbing people the wrong way during 552 when the focus WAS all on Marty. It was only after it that the decline started, at first they had nothing else to play for but when they did start to get in a slump Sutter responded by coaching scared the rest of the season. The checking line didn't really exist during the Clemmensen run and it was brought back in force on the eve of the playoffs.

And it's funny how you say Marty was never a health freak, maybe that's true but he had amazing durability till 2008 and even last year played 70+ games at a high level, no small feat for a 37-year old. I do find it ironic that some of the same people that were worried about running Marty into the ground (and I was in that group) aren't worried about doing the same to a 38-year old Hedberg. Even if Hedberg continues to win Marty'll have to play at SOME point.

And I'm sure none of that has to do with the fact Brodeur was playing the majority of the games early in the season when we had the worst coach in the history of the NHL and everyone was playing far below potential. Hedberg couldn't win then either, other than that one week (without Langs lol) in late November.

I love how he's handling this with all class (as usual) and yet people are still ripping on him, guess the rap on this board is true.


What other recourse can he choose? Stomp his feet, and scream how he should start?! :giggle:

He congratulated Hedberg.. said he's playing great.. and how it's good for the team. :noclue: If you want to pin a medal on him for stating the obvious, go right ahead.
Here's the thing though... I never "ripped Brodeur" for anything! I said: "imo, he's gradually declined since 35." and "Moose gives us just as good a chance in net." But I guess that's Lucifer's Dogs banter around here. :rolleyes:

..nah, you're right though bro. I agree with you. Marty doesn't age. It's simply coaching that's at fault here.
If it wasn't for Brent coaching scared, and damn J'Mac.. the worst coach in the history of the NHL.. he'd be lights out again. His 3.46 GAA, and that whopping 1 more win Brodeur has this season under Lemaire, makes all the difference. :thumbsup:
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#29 SS#4-Life

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:21 PM

martys gaa is 2.74 not 3.46
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#30 Beezer34

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:29 PM

martys gaa is 2.74 not 3.46


UNDER LEMAIRE!
Hasan said Brodeur's downfall started in 2008.. but seemed to blame other people (namely the coaches) wihtout ever acknowledging the obvious. Brodeur is declining for the same reason anyone who leaves their prime does... He's getting older! Which is really all I ever said. :noclue:
My point was that under Jacques, Marty got 8 wins, 7 losses.. and a 3.46 GAA.

..but wait, let me guess!! That's not on him either. That was the Langs\Lemaire era.. right? :P
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#31 NJDevs4978

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:37 PM

Here's the thing though... I never "ripped Brodeur" for anything! I said: "imo, he's gradually declined since 35." and "Moose gives us just as good a chance in net." But I guess that's Lucifer's Dogs banter around here.



It's not just you and it's not just LucifersDog, or CRASHER, that's what annoys me about this board sometimes.

My only point in bringing up how he was handling the benching was he was getting ripped for being maganimous about getting benched earlier cause people thought he just wanted to escape a bad situation. Now that he's acting the same way in a good situation not a peep. He can't win with some around here.

And I'd like every goalie to decline with numbers like Brodeur had last year. Brodeur's 'decline' is mostly that he's been more brittle since 2008. If there's been a decline in his actual play it's started this year, not four years ago.

My point was that under Jacques, Marty got 8 wins, 7 losses.. and a 3.46 GAA.


And most of those losses were when the team was still suffering from Mac hangover. They didn't start pulling out of it until that comeback against Tampa in early January.

..but wait, let me guess!! That's not on him either. That was the Langs\Lemaire era.. right?


Well that was the other part of the cleansing that needed to happen.

Heck, I was guilty of thinking Brodeur was declining in the first half too (or at least disinterested with all the losing going on) but it's becoming so obvious that the first half was so far out of the norm for EVERYone you really can't take it into account to assess anything other than Mac was ridiculously terrible. Unless you think Kovalchuk, Elias, Zajac, etc were also declining in the first half :P

Edited by NJDevs4978, 24 February 2011 - 10:04 PM.

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The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
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#32 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:52 PM

Yes, Scott Clemmensen would have won us the Cup or even round 1 against Carolina. And Brodeur at is declining but 38 year old Hedberg is not.

It's ridiculous how a 40 game sample from Clemmensen trumps all. He HAD to be sent down. He was an emergency call up, which meant when the person he replaced was back, he HAD to be returned.

Hedberg is the hot hand now and should be playing, but Hedberg has been a career backup for a reason. He can't maintain this for another 6 weeks.
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#33 NJDevs4978

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:06 PM

I wouldn't mind if every goalie 'declined' like Hedberg either since he's had two of the best seasons of his career at 37 and 38.

And fwiw, Beezer and Corey Schwab had a good percentage backing up Marty from '01-04 as well, so I guess the fact their winning percentage was better also suggest Marty was declining while he was winning a Cup.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 24 February 2011 - 10:07 PM.

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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

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-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#34 Beezer34

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:25 PM

Yes, Scott Clemmensen would have won us the Cup or even round 1 against Carolina. And Brodeur at is declining but 38 year old Hedberg is not.

It's ridiculous how a 40 game sample from Clemmensen trumps all. He HAD to be sent down. He was an emergency call up, which meant when the person he replaced was back, he HAD to be returned.
Hedberg is the hot hand now and should be playing, but Hedberg has been a career backup for a reason. He can't maintain this for another 6 weeks.


Just silly conjecture, to say someone can or can't do something in the coming 6 weeks or whatever amount of time you feel in your own head. I believe in Hedberg, and for however long his run lasts, I don't know. But, that's nice to know that.. should Brodeur suffer a season ending injury throughout the remaining 20 some odd games left in the season.. you've already thrown in the towel. :rock:
Furthermore.. it's extremely ignorant to look at a players age and age alone, in determining their ability. Lou Lamoriello himself has (multiple times) said; "age is just a number" -&- how there are "times when a player can play much younger, than his actual age." What.. you just throw wear and tear out the window here? :huh: Brodeur has played 1,100+ career games, next to Moose's 300. :giggle:
Moose is more fresh THIS SEASON, not because he's a year younger.. but because Moose has started 13 less this season. Hedberg would have to play 10 more games, to have more GP'd than Brodeur this year. Couple that with mileage over a career.. yeah there kinda is a difference here between 37 & 38.

I NEVER said Clemmensen would have "won us a cup" nor did I say "the Devils would have beaten Carolina, by benching Brodeur." Though this topic continues to be deformed in feeble attempts at putting words in my mouth.. let me AGAIN reiterate my stance. Brodeur is in the twilight of his career and (given the stats of the "backup" goalies that have played for us over the last 4 seasons) I feel we have just as good a chance at winning games with Hedberg in goal, going forward.

And fwiw, Beezer and Corey Schwab had a good percentage backing up Marty from '01-04 as well, so I guess the fact their winning percentage was better also suggest Marty was declining while he was winning a Cup.


No no, you're right. Brodeur's "Mr. Softy" image since 35, has less to do with age, and more to do with...

-Sutter's Scared: *The influx of the "checking line" in 2009. (a disadvantage Clemmensen never had)
-The TEAM failed me: *An obstacle that came Brodeur's way, when the 2008-09 Devils suddenly had "nothing else to play for."
-Worst Coach Ever: *Playing the majority of the games, under J'Mac.. the worst coach in the history of the sport.
-2010 Hangover: *Be it Lemaire's newness, or Langs himself. Look past the breaking in period of JL.
-Bad Luck: *Poor Karma in 2011. Getting hurt again.. just as the Devils were starting to roll. Shucks!
-Just the tail end: *If there actually is indeed a decline, it's due to Marty being "brittle" since 2008.

..I got all of them right?

EDIT: In regards to your Schwab\Vanbiesbrouck comment. -You're comparing a very small number of games throughout a 3 year period.. to over 100 games played, from our backup's since the 2008-2009 season.

Edited by Beezer34, 24 February 2011 - 10:36 PM.

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#35 NJDevs4978

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:34 PM

No no, you're right. Brodeur's game since 35, has less to do with age, and more to do with...


Still being elite:

2007-08 44-27-6 2.17 GAA .920 SV 4 SHO (Vezina)
2008-09 19-9-3 2.42 GAA .916 SV 5 SHO
2009-10 45-25-6 2.24 GAA .916 SV 9 SHO (Vezina finalist)

Yep, sure a lot of decline there.
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-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#36 xrafalskix

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:40 PM

I am glad Moose is starting.... He is definitely hot right now
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#37 Beezer34

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:45 PM

Still being elite:

2007-08 44-27-6 2.17 GAA .920 SV 4 SHO (Vezina)
2008-09 19-9-3 2.42 GAA .916 SV 5 SHO
2009-10 45-25-6 2.24 GAA .916 SV 9 SHO (Vezina finalist)

Yep, sure a lot of decline there.


..and yet, losing 12 out of 17 playoff games.. with a GAA pushing 3 since the 2007-08 season. But hey.. those 2 seasons where he won over 40 games (having played nearly 80 in each) are great consolations prizes. :thumbsup:
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#38 NJDevs4978

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:51 PM

..and yet, losing 12 out of 17 playoff games.. with a GAA pushing 3 since the 2007-08 season. But hey.. those 2 seasons where he won over 40 games (having played nearly 80 in each) are great consolations prizes. :thumbsup:


The playoff thing doesn't show decline, it shows fatigue. Which I agree has been a big issue since the lockout. But it isn't just Brodeur though, NO goalie's been able to handle a 65+ game workload with a deep playoff run since the lockout and all the rule changes have opened up the game.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 24 February 2011 - 10:56 PM.

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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#39 SS#4-Life

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:54 PM

Beezer and Corey Schwab had a good percentage backing up Marty from '01-04 as well, so I guess the fact their winning percentage was better also suggest Marty was declining while he was winning a Cup.

oh god. plez dont get him started on beez
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#40 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:58 PM

..and yet, losing 12 out of 17 playoff games.. with a GAA pushing 3 since the 2007-08 season. But hey.. those 2 seasons where he won over 40 games (having played nearly 80 in each) are great consolations prizes. :thumbsup:


Yeah... ton of goal support they gave him, too. :thumbsup:
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