Will the Yankees make the playoffs

[LOTCB]

Gun to my head I say no, just too many problems on this team right now.

Your thoughts?

[LizDevil30]

There's like a billion more games to go. Too soon to call.

[DevsRule]

Not a chance in my opinion. Too many old timers on that roster.

[Weekes Head]

Yeahh, if they can't even beat the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, I'm very hesitant to say they'll turn this around and make the playoffs.

[NJayDevil]

Way too early to tell. But losing 3 straight to the Tampon Bay Devil Rays is NOT a good sign.

I'm at the game on Saturday so I'll get my first look at them in person.

[Derek21]

I'm going to refrain from voting no because it's still early. The Twins are 7 ahead in the loss column for the WC. Boston is 1/2 a game behind them. That can be made up.

It's not looking good. This team going in had horrible depth and that's what you're seeing. I think the Baseball Tonight guys made a really good point about the starters. When's the last time a Yankee knocked a batter down? They just don't do it. It lets hitters be more aggressive. I don't know if this comes down from Mel Stottlemyre but not throwing inside makes no sense. If you come in, that can knock a batter off balance. Maybe Stottlemyre needs to go. Look how many guys leave here and improve.

Contreras is pitching better. So is Loiaza. Oh btw, Loaiza was what they got back for Contreras. They have nothing to show for him. So is Weaver. So are Vazquez and Halsey (who I felt should have been kept). The Yanks don't give younger guys enough time. They jump the gun so much.

Imagine that they could have Brazoban setting up Mariano and Marte as well. Brazoban is a future closer and has 8 saves in Gagne's absence. He was a throw-in (or shall i say throw-away) for Kevin Punchwall Brown.

They traded Marte for Enrique Wilson.

One other thought based on last September. Why isn't Scott Proctor being used? He throws gas. He has great stuff. This is a perfect example of how clueless Steinbrenner's Tampa guys are. Proctor could be the heir apparent to Rivera. And is he even on the roster? No. Instead, they have Gordon, who still sees October ghosts on the mound. They have Quantrill, who Torre screwed up (When does the manager finally take a hit) overusing him. And he hasn't been the same since last August. They have Felix "Waste of Space" Rodriguez. This was another genius move. They traded Lofton for him. And for what? So he could work mop up duty while Lofton is a serviceable OF, who btw could have played center if Bernie had gone down (nice move guys).

Instead, they went in with just Bubba Crosby.

There are a lot of reasons this team stinks. They have no sixth starter in case of injuries (Wright, Johnson). They only have one utility guy in Rey Sanchez. The first base/DH situation is substandard until Ruben Sierra comes back.

And as if he didn't have enough problems hitting, Hideki Matsui is now playing center field. They don't think that weighs on his mind at the plate? This organization has accomplished something I never thought possible. They have become the New York Rangers of baseball. And btw... if they do miss, it will be even more embarrassing. Who spends $200+ million to lose?

One last thought. The teams that won all had role guys. They knew their roles. Guys like Mariano Duncan, Tony Fernandez, Jose Vizcaino, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, Shane Spencer, Jeff Nelson, Mike Stanton, Graeme Lloyd, etc.

Everyone contributed. With Steinbrenner more involved since the Yankees got their own network, those kind of TEAMS died. It became getting the best player at each position and who needs a bench mentality. So, when you look at the payroll, it doesn't address the bench. Just the guys who if healthy would be on the field.

And that is why I never felt this team was winning a World Series in the first place. They are not built to win anymore. Ask yourselves this. Do you have the same confidence that even if this team miraculously turned it around that they could win the necessary 11 games in October to win it all?

Mine was gone after 2001.

[LOTCB]

I'm going to refrain from voting no because it's still early. The Twins are 7 ahead in the loss column for the WC. Boston is 1/2 a game behind them. That can be made up.

It's not looking good. This team going in had horrible depth and that's what you're seeing. I think the Baseball Tonight guys made a really good point about the starters. When's the last time a Yankee knocked a batter down? They just don't do it. It lets hitters be more aggressive. I don't know if this comes down from Mel Stottlemyre but not throwing inside makes no sense. If you come in, that can knock a batter off balance. Maybe Stottlemyre needs to go. Look how many guys leave here and improve.

Contreras is pitching better. So is Loiaza. Oh btw, Loaiza was what they got back for Contreras. They have nothing to show for him. So is Weaver. So are Vazquez and Halsey (who I felt should have been kept). The Yanks don't give younger guys enough time. They jump the gun so much.

Imagine that they could have Brazoban setting up Mariano and Marte as well. Brazoban is a future closer and has 8 saves in Gagne's absence. He was a throw-in (or shall i say throw-away) for Kevin Punchwall Brown.

They traded Marte for Enrique Wilson.

One other thought based on last September. Why isn't Scott Proctor being used? He throws gas. He has great stuff. This is a perfect example of how clueless Steinbrenner's Tampa guys are. Proctor could be the heir apparent to Rivera. And is he even on the roster? No. Instead, they have Gordon, who still sees October ghosts on the mound. They have Quantrill, who Torre screwed up (When does the manager finally take a hit) overusing him. And he hasn't been the same since last August. They have Felix "Waste of Space" Rodriguez. This was another genius move. They traded Lofton for him. And for what? So he could work mop up duty while Lofton is a serviceable OF, who btw could have played center if Bernie had gone down (nice move guys).

Instead, they went in with just Bubba Crosby.

There are a lot of reasons this team stinks. They have no sixth starter in case of injuries (Wright, Johnson). They only have one utility guy in Rey Sanchez. The first base/DH situation is substandard until Ruben Sierra comes back.

And as if he didn't have enough problems hitting, Hideki Matsui is now playing center field. They don't think that weighs on his mind at the plate? This organization has accomplished something I never thought possible. They have become the New York Rangers of baseball. And btw... if they do miss, it will be even more embarrassing. Who spends $200+ million to lose?

One last thought. The teams that won all had role guys. They knew their roles. Guys like Mariano Duncan, Tony Fernandez, Jose Vizcaino, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, Shane Spencer, Jeff Nelson, Mike Stanton, Graeme Lloyd, etc.

Everyone contributed. With Steinbrenner more involved since the Yankees got their own network, those kind of TEAMS died. It became getting the best player at each position and who needs a bench mentality. So, when you look at the payroll, it doesn't address the bench. Just the guys who if healthy would be on the field.

And that is why I never felt this team was winning a World Series in the first place. They are not built to win anymore. Ask yourselves this. Do you have the same confidence that even if this team miraculously turned it around that they could win the necessary 11 games in October to win it all?

Mine was gone after 2001.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post as always Derek, and I agree with you on many points. About the confidence: That I agree with you to a point, lets be fair here, on the Sat night after the Yankees beat Boston 19-8 to take a 3-0 lead, if you asked me then, I had confidence they could win it all.

The more I think about the "homegrown" points people make up, the more I realize it might be a tad overrated. Think about the 2004 World Champion Red Sox, how many "homegrown" players did they have? Maye 2 or 3 TOPS. Here is the point: When is the last time the Yankees made a "good find" in a trade or FA pickup that WASNT a premium Free Agent or player...Scott Brosius....O'Neill for Roberto Kelly...those kind of moves havent happened in the Bronx in YEARS now.

Think about the Red Sox, they took a gamble on David Ortiz and boy did it pay off. They made a lot of good trades, Varitek, Lowe were acquired in deals, they traded Garciaparra and got Cabrera...Bellhorn was a good find. That is the difference too. Not only do the Yankees have an imbalance of homegrown talent vs non homegrown talent, they also have an imbalance in the FA and trades they make. It seems to be the Yankees have become scared to roll the dice on players, they seem to have "MSG-itis", a sickness that starts with obsessing over "premium" Free agents to appease the fans who pay the big bucks for tickets.

The Yankees are not getting players to work in a system they have in place. The Red Sox do. The front office has lost their direction, and that has to change. When is the last time Stick Michael was involved in a move? Since they were a great organization, thats when.

Edited May 6, 2005 by LOTCB

[NJDevs4978]

Wow you know things are going bad for the Yankees when even the so-called 'true' Yankees have fallen into the malaise. Posada makes one of the dumbest baserunning choices I've seen in quite sometime when he gets thrown out at third with A-Rod at the plate and the Yankees in the midst of a rally that could have given them the lead. Then Tino makes two errors on the same play, giving the A's the lead now in extra innings.

[Weekes Head]

Three errors in one inning.

[Weekes Head]

Mo = 45 pitches in one inning.

[Weekes Head]

MO JUST FORCED IN A RUN WITH A BASES LOADED WALK!

[NJayDevil]

Bonehead plays:

Posada in the bottom of the 8th trying to take 3rd base. For a second he thought he was Jeter, then a second later, he found out he was not.

Tino NOT stepping on the bag and throwing a sh!t throw to home plate which was a result of 0 outs (1 easy one) and 2 runs (when only 1 should have scored).

A-Rod not getting that final out and would have prevented another run to score (which Mo did himself with a walk)

Tino leads off and there's no better way to make up for his bonehead play but atleast just getting ON BASE!

This sh!t atleast isn't Torre's fault. Guys just aren't performing and aren't thinking right.

[NJayDevil]

God Damn It! A dropped flyball still results in an Out because the Yanks luck this year has been as bad as farting in the shower they couldn't take advantage of it.

First 2 bats on with no Outs would have been huge. Damn it!

[Derek21]

They are just pressing so much. It's almost like they're thinking too much.

I know people are going to say Rivera didn't get it done. But he had to go two innings just for them to try to get a win. And not one ball left the infield. The walk and HBP killed him. But still, they should have been out of the inning with maybe one run.

I wonder what it's going to take for them to break it.

P.S. I hope George's horse wins. LOL

[Derek21]

Mussina with a CG SHO, tossing 132 or 133 pitches. Finally, something.

If Brown doesn't pitch well tomorrow, it won't mean much.

[PeteyNice]

If? Brown is the closest thing to sure loss in the AL this season. He is a disaster. I was reading online that some teams have started hiring guys especially to work with pitchers. They call them "pitching coaches". The Yankees should look into getting one of those instead of someone who just sits on the bench with a pitch count clicker.

Derek, do you really think Contreras or Esta-gone Loaiza would heve been any better this year than they were last year? Losing the $8M owed Contreras allowed the Yankees to go after Pavano who has been good this year.

[Derek21]

I do Pete. I am not some fan who thinks every move this organization makes is PERFECT.

They should have kept El Duque too. And Pavano has not pitched well. What games are you watching? He's been okay. But he's also been inconsistent, much like his career record. He entered off one good year and one game over .500.

When they dealt Contreras for Loiaza, they had to keep him. Instead, they tossed in the towel like they always do when a guy is bad for a short period. Did the staff even see how Esteban was throwing against Boston last October? Did that even count? Of course not. Loiaza's velocity was back. He was more reliable than Gordon at that point.

Even if you disagree, wouldn't have made sense to retain him as a sixth starter in case something went wrong?

And look how it's turned out. Lieber is 5-1 now with under a 3.00 ERA in Philly while Wright is sidelined indefinitely with over a 9.00 ERA. Brown you already labeled an automatic loss basically. If he's so brutal, it would have made sense to keep Loiaza. Or El Duque.

But that's not how it works anymore. Only the Tampa faction's opinion matters, making Cashman a lame duck no matter how bad his trades are.

[PeteyNice]

Cashman definately misread the market by not picking up Lieber's option. There is no doubt. However, after they decided to not pick up his option not giving him a three year deal was a good idea.

The reason they traded for Loaiza was *because* he was a FA and they could take that money off the books and go after someone better.

Loaiza got $3M from Washington. After what he gave us last year you cannot blame them for not giving him that.

El Duque wanted a guarantee of a rotation spot, that is something we could not give him.

Pavano has had one bad start (against Toronto). Otherwise he has not allowed more than 3 ER in any other start. In the games he has lost the Yankees scored 1 and 2 runs and one of those losses was when he was hit in the head and left in the third inning.

Edited May 7, 2005 by PeteyNice

[Derek21]

Is that what they said regarding why they let Loiaza go? Question. Did the team get a compensatory draft pick when he left for the Expos?

I can't disagree with much else that you said. Thing with Pavano is he got the contract and now he has to go and prove he can be reliable for the whole year. He has the stuff and mental makeup to. We'll see.

I wish they had kept Duque. That would have made Punch Wall's performance irrelevant.

[DevsRule]

I wish they had kept Duque. That would have made Punch Wall's performance irrelevant.

I would not be so sure about El Duque. He always seemed to get a "dead arm" when we needed him the most.

However anyone is better than Kevin Brown.

[NJayDevil]

Yanks sure looked like champions today. They whole demeanor was fantastic. Mussina was pumped. A-Rod seemed to be thrilled he had a great day. Tino was on a mission the entire day (I got to watch him closely cause I was right on the 1st base line) and he just wasn't going to make the same mistakes he did last night.

I was upset at the way Matsui takes his at-bats now. He just looks like he doesn't care about batting now. It's a real shame cause when that man is on, he could potential be the biggest threat the Yanks got (other than Shef who is always outstanding). Donny Baseball needs to put some confidence back in that swing of Matsui's. His bat will be important later in the year.

Glad to see a Yankee pitcher throw a complete game. He looked fantastic the entire game. Almost lost it in the 9th though. Once Torre went to the mount he got his act straight and finished a great game. He was only throwing like 78-80mph and then when Torre talked to him he was throwing 90-92mph. Nice to see after 120 pitches he's still got that heat.

Brown pitching tomorrow really sucks. It could kill the momentum the Yanks built today. They wanted this game today and got it. Brown, you ass, you better not screw up!

[Derek21]

I would not be so sure about El Duque.  He always seemed to get a "dead arm" when we needed him the most.

However anyone is better than Kevin Brown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, Duque is 4-1 on the White Sox. Amen to your second point. Hell, I'm better than Punch Wall and I haven't pitched since little league. I had a good curve .

[NJDevs4978]

Well I guess Wall Boy came up big today, why does that not surprise me

Seriously though the A's lineup has got to be one of the five worst in baseball, especially with Chavez in a nightmare slump.

[Derek21]

LOL Has. The A's lineup should be ashamed of itself. They did have the bases loaded with 0 out one inning and left em loaded with two out in the fourth.

Who do the Yanks play next?

[NJayDevil]

Seattle is next at the Stadium.

Hey I gotta give it to Brown today. Once he loaded the bases he threw the ball the best I've ever seen him throw it. Granted the A's lineup sucks offensive but Brown sucks too. It was the battle of 2 suck's and he won it. It's a good thing to build from.

A-Rod continues to have a great season. And Tino is back being the man after Friday night. 2 HR's and 4 RBI's in 2 days.