Will the Yankees make the playoffs

[sheeps]

Baseball is much more of a position sport. True you have to work together to make most plays but it's all about doing your thing right. Hockey, you need to mesh with your teammates. Baseball is much more formulaic than hockey.

[LOTCB]

Something kind of funny about MLB of recent times.

Sure the Yankees are always in the playoffs, but Arizona, Flordia, and Anaheim (before the new ownership with a moderate payroll) win the WS in the last 4 years, the NBA who has a salary cap, had the Lakers win 3 in a row recently, and who knows, maybe the Pistons will go back to back as well. And in the NFL, the same team has won 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls, and another team has made the Final 4 or better four straight years (Eagles), but yet there is a cap there too.

Bottom line: Good scouts, good management, good choices via FA and the Draft, and as long as your owner isnt as cheap as the Kansas City Royals, you CAN win.

Edited May 16, 2005 by LOTCB

[Don]

Yes, there is adequate proof that a salary cap does not eliminate the possibility of dynasties. Which destroys one of the myths of the anti-cap side. I think a good GM and a salary cap puts the Devils in a much better position.

But those teams you mentioned went in the hole to finance those teams and then dropped their salaries once they had a fan base so that they could make some money. Nothing new. The Toronto Blue Jays did the exact same thing. They made the Skydome. They bought a couple of World Series titles by signing everybody in sight. And then coasted for a decade. Sure, each year since attendance has gone down, but there are still people going with memories of 1992.

Baseball will have to have a salary cap before I watch another Jays game. After a decade of finishing behind the big bucks Yankees and similary big bucks Sox, anyone who continues being a Jays fan is deluding themselves. There has been no chance in the last ten years.

[PeteyNice]

well, that's 9 in a row folks. I realize Seattle and Oakland suck, but so does Tampa and they couldn't beat the D-Rays.

If Bernie could play average CF they blank the Mariners but he made up for it.

[devilsrule33]

Giambi is tearing it up tonight.

['7']

Yes, there is adequate proof that a salary cap does not eliminate the possibility of dynasties. Which destroys one of the myths of the anti-cap side. I think a good GM and a salary cap puts the Devils in a much better position.

But those teams you mentioned went in the hole to finance those teams and then dropped their salaries once they had a fan base so that they could make some money. Nothing new. The Toronto Blue Jays did the exact same thing. They made the Skydome. They bought a couple of World Series titles by signing everybody in sight. And then coasted for a decade. Sure, each year since attendance has gone down, but there are still people going with memories of 1992.

Baseball will have to have a salary cap before I watch another Jays game. After a decade of finishing behind the big bucks Yankees and similary big bucks Sox, anyone who continues being a Jays fan is deluding themselves. There has been no chance in the last ten years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how about the wild card? what about the recent success of the Twins, Angels and A's, and Marlins. These aren't huge market teams with big payrolls. Aside from last years collapse, they've been right around .500 most years, some over some under. Heck in 2000 they finished only 4.5 out of first.

[Triumph]

The Angels have the fourth highest payroll in baseball.

Small market teams can grab lightning in a bottle. The A's have refused to make the move to get them over the top, and consequently have stayed good but haven't won anything. The Marlins do make that move and have won 2 World Series but are probably well under .500 as a franchise. A team just cannot be consistently successful without a large payroll.

['7']

what was the angels payroll when they won the WS though? Couldn't have been the 4th highest.

But baseball did it right Tri, they're a 16 team league disguised as a 30 team league, there is enough lightening in a bottle teams to keep alot of fans interested. Every so often an unexpected team will win the division or WC, and a few more unexpected teams make at least wild card runs and are playing meaningful games in September. of course the playoff system is so small, and that's what adds to the appeal of baseball. But there are many teams in contention. The NL east was interesting last year before the Braves ran away with it in July, the NL West was a 3 team race, the AL West was a 3 team race that came down to the wire, the Sox made and amazing late season run to put pressure on the Yankees....this is not good enough? What exactly do you want the league to be? Devil Rays-Brewers World series?

[LOTCB]

The Angels have the fourth highest payroll in baseball. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They do now yes, but when the Angels won the WS in 2002, was approx 60 million I believem which was middle of the pack, and now the Angels has built on that success. Here is the link:

Angels 2002 Payroll

Toronto took a big hit after the 94 strike, but now after some bad management decisions and just being flat out cheap IMO, now the Jays are getting their act together, and you watch this owner spend the money for Toronto in the upcoming years.

Are there some teams that just cannot spend the money? Yes, but Im sorry, IMO teams like Kansas City and Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati, all once BIG TIME baseball towns, can get it back if they get proper management and stop being so damn cheap.

[Don]

The difference was that the wildcard was always Boston. The Angels got in the playoffs because they were in a division without the Yankees or Red Sox. The Jays had zero chance of making the playoffs starting on day one of training camp for the last 10 years. If they could move to another division with the Twins or Angels or ANYWHERE else, they might have had a shot.

[LOTCB]

The difference was that the wildcard was always Boston. The Angels got in the playoffs because they were in a division without the Yankees or Red Sox. The Jays had zero chance of making the playoffs starting on day one of training camp for the last 10 years. If they could move to another division with the Twins or Angels or ANYWHERE else, they might have had a shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is very tough for Baltimore Toronto and especially Tampa Bay to compete with the Red Sox, but also those 3 teams with the exception of this year, has been miserable, so I think the Yankees and Sox both beefed up their W totals off of those teams.

If Toronto and Baltimore continute there improvements, you watch the win totals shrink a bit for the Sox and the Yankees.

And in fairness, the 2002 Angels did win 99 games.

[NJayDevil]

10 in a row. Pavano pitched the way he's capable of. Striking Out 7 and never really giving the Mariners a chance to get back into the game. A-Rod and Giambi went yard. Giambi went 3 for 4. Hell has semi-frozen over I guess...

[Triumph]

But of course, when hockey has even more parity, apparently it's a problem.

The Midwestern cities do not have the money to compete anymore. I am saying that clubs should have the ability to make the playoffs with a small payroll. It becomes less and less possible to do that.

And Don is right about the Jays. The AL East went the same way for how many years in a row? The Angels won 99 games, but they didn't have to play the difficult schedule the 3 other AL East teams have to.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Triumph

[Derek21]

Well, the Yankee streak is over. They ran out of gas, reverting to how they were for the first 30 games this year. Blowing a 6-2 lead to a putrid Seattle team. Sheff made a key error which led to two unearned runs that tied it and Gordon gave up a 2-out RBI single to Miguel Olivo of all people. Thanks a lot Sterling for jinxing him. Yes, the idiot of broadcasting said during the AB, 'Olivo's not much of a hitter.'

That pretty much guaranteed a hit.

And after knocking in two more earlier, Giambi was brought back to reality as he watched three fastballs with the bases loaded to end the game. And yes, though he got screwed on the 2nd pitch (it was low), the third pitch was right down the middle and he just took it. He could have crushed it. Oh well.

Yanks really couldn't afford to blow a game like this. Now they have to get this series against the Mets or it's back to square one again.

[NJayDevil]

So the streak ends at 10. So what. They did what they needed to do, get right back in the race. Now instead of being 10 or 11 games back, they are 5.5 back. Noone asked for them to win 10 straight and it was great for them to do so. Sometimes in a 162 game season you have a sloppy defensive game. Atleast they weren't blown out and atleast they had a chance in the bottom of the 9th. Still got the bases loaded and all that. Maybe if he wasn't Giambi at the plate and someone like Jeter or Cano at the plate there would have been a single to tie the game. I can't be mad after them losing 1 out of 11.

Looking forward to the Mets series this weekend. Brown will get a real test on Friday. It's going to be a big game for him. Let's hope he's up for the challenge.

[Don]

I figured. Too much money not to make it.

I can happily say I haven't watched a single game since the turn of the century. No point.

[NJDevs4978]

Don, the master of bringing up forgotten threads

I guess their money did determine it from the standpoint that they always had the $100 million offense and the $25 million they spend on Unit and Rivera doesn't hurt.

What galls me though is that they got oh like 24-6 or something like that out of Small, Chacon and Wang, none of whom were expected to do anything, particularly the 10-0 they got from Small. It's like they had the highest payroll and now get good fortune on top of it

Edited October 1, 2005 by Hasan4978

[NJayDevil]

Like I said in the beginning of the season...All the Yanks had to do was stay in striking distance for most of the season and then TURN IT UP in September and October. And what did they do? They've only won something like 16 of their last 20.

This is the telling stat right here:

New York trailed Boston by 5

[Derek21]

I figured. Too much money not to make it.

I can happily say I haven't watched a single game since the turn of the century. No point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wasn't about money. Guys like Aaron Small, Chien-Ming Wang and Shawn Chacon came through. Without them, there's no postseason this time.

NJay, the Yanks are 35-12 in their last 47 games. They earned it.

[LOTCB]

I figured. Too much money not to make it.

I can happily say I haven't watched a single game since the turn of the century. No point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, teams like Florida and Anaheim were just throwing $ all over the placeduring their World Series Championships werent they?

Yankees 200 million dollar payroll...and guys like Aaron Small goe 10-0 and Shawn Chacon who they got for a song are 2 of the biggest reasons they are here.

Its not all about the $

[Don]

What I meant was what I said throughout this thread. As a former Jays fan, there is no point in even tuning in one game because they are out before spring training even starts. There is no reason for the Blue Jays to even show up. Just forfeit all the games and be done with it.

With the Red Sox and Yankees in the division, the Jays are out-spent at every position. They cannot afford to compete. Yes, if they were in another division like the Angels then there would be a chance that they could make the playoffs and beat the higher payroll team in a 7 game series. But there is no chance of making the playoffs in the AL East. None. Zero. Check the history of the last decade. Which is why I haven't watched in over 5 years. There really is no point.

We used to take trips to Toronto when I was younger so I could go to a Jays game. I can't play hockey, so baseball was my game. I used to watch the Jays and Expos religiously. I've been an umpire and coach for minor league baseball. I love the game. But there just isn't any point in watching the major leagues any more.

[NJDevs4978]

The unfortunate thing is the Jays did a pretty good job this year, finished a game or two under .500 without Halladay for most of the year. It is a tall order having the TWO highest payrolls in the league in your own division.

No the $200 million was no factor in Chacon (good talent evaluation) or Small (blind luck), but the Yankees' payroll for their offense alone is more than all but about two or three teams spend for their entire team, and the offense was pretty untouched by injuries, they even got a TON more out of Giambi than they ever thought or had a right to expect. They still had their three highest paid pitchers pitch most of the year too.

[PeteyNice]

They still had their three highest paid pitchers pitch most of the year too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not true. The Yankees three highest paid pitchers are Mussina, Johnson and Kevin Brown. Brown hasn't pitched in quite a while.

[NJDevs4978]

ROFL he's been out of the mix so long I totally forgot about the human whine machine

[devilsrule33]

I have watched the Jays most of the year and if Halladay stayed healthy I think they could have made a run for the Wild Card. He was the best pitcher in the first half of the season. This team has a pretty good lineup minus Koskie who is brutal. J.P. Ricciardi has done a good job rebuilding this team. They have a lot of young talent. They owned the Red Sox this year.

As for the Yankees. I don't even think for a second I thought they wouldn't make the playoffs.