Triumph Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 What's the weather like in 2004? Barry Bonds the "best hitter in baseball"? In 2007? Maybe the "best hitter [over 40] in baseball". If you can shove Giambi out the door it might make sense. Otherwise you can't have two lefthanded DH's on the bench even in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Barry Bonds' line this year: .267/.480/.565..480 OBP - are you kidding me? Was there anyone even close to that? Alex Rodriguez's OPS+ was higher - so we'll call Bonds the second best hitter in the league. I'd sh!tcan Giambi in a second - pay his entire salary, outright release him, do whatever, to get Barry Bonds in NY next season. It will never happen, but to have the two best hitters in the league would be incredible. Ahh I get it now. OBP:Hitters::Strikeouts:Pitchers with you. You do realize that his OBP is a product of noone wanting to give up a record breaking HR and the fact that the Giants lineup is a bunch of AA hitters, right? If pitchers had to pitch to him there is no telling what his numbers would really be. However, at 43 I doubt they would be very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallidevils Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Barry Bonds' line this year: .267/.480/.565..480 OBP - are you kidding me? Was there anyone even close to that? Alex Rodriguez's OPS+ was higher - so we'll call Bonds the second best hitter in the league. You can't just look at OBP and OPS to determine who the best hitters are. It's laughable to say that Bonds is the best hitter in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You can't just look at OBP and OPS to determine who the best hitters are. It's laughable to say that Bonds is the best hitter in baseball. What would you rather look at? Barry Bonds was the hardest hitter in baseball to get out last season and hit the ball really hard, seems like a pretty good way of looking at a hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Ahh I get it now. OBP:Hitters::Strikeouts:Pitchers with you. You do realize that his OBP is a product of noone wanting to give up a record breaking HR and the fact that the Giants lineup is a bunch of AA hitters, right? If pitchers had to pitch to him there is no telling what his numbers would really be. However, at 43 I doubt they would be very good. Yeah, that's what it is. It's not the fact that the guy still has terrific power and a tremendous eye. It's the records and oh the pitchers don't want to be on SportsCenter! Managers probably do walk him too much - but he is a phenomenal hitter. Was Hank Aaron putting up .480 OBPs? In fact - I'd love to know all the hitters who've had a .480 OBP before. My guess is that there's not many - Ruth, Hornsby, Williams, Bonds. That's probably it. Nah, you have to look at things other than OPS and OBP - like VORP or EqA or any number of advanced metrics that'll tell you the same thing as the raw numbers - Bonds is still if not the top, in the top 3, of major league hitters. edit - just took out all the IBBs - he still has an OBP over .440. He's an incredible hitter. Edited October 11, 2007 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallidevils Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Triumph you DO realize that OBP takes into consideration walks, right, and that his inflated OBP is more highly influenced by his insane walk total than his .276 batting average? Do you realize how much his OBP would go down if he had protection in the lineup? He's one of the most feared hitters in the league because he swings for the fences every at bat, and because pitchers can afford to walk him (See: 75 runs even though he had by far the highest OBP). Not even taking age into consideration, I'd take Prince Fielder on my team over Bonds, based on last year's stats. Is he still one of the best homerun hitters in the game? Sure. But one of the best overall hitters? Ten years ago, definitely...but someone who essentially does nothing but swing for the fences isnt going to be one of the best hitters in my book. Edited October 11, 2007 by metallidevils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Would Bonds walk less in a lineup that is more powerful? Yes. Will Bonds start seeing pitches that are easier to hit because pitchers are less likely to want to walk him? Yes. That kind of stuff tends to balance out. Bonds hit a homerun every 12 ABs or so. Prince Fielder hit a home run every 11.5 ABs or so. Really not that huge of a difference. If you take their OBP and multiply them by 1.4 and add their slugging percentage, which is a great way to measure a players productivity at the plate, Bonds ends up with 1.237 and Fielder gets 1.171. Not a huge difference again. Also, you took one of the players who had the best seasons in the majors to compare Bonds to. So if you feel Bonds is in a category where you have to take one of the best batters from last season to make Bonds look inferior then it seems obvious to me you understand it is extremely hard to argue against Bonds hitting prowess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOTCB Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Here are some questions I have about the 2008 Yankees: What is the stance on Andy Pettite? Any chance he will come back??? If he does not, the Yankees will need a LHP...I shudder at the thought of the Yankees considering Tom Glavine...other lefty FA's oinclude former Yankees Eric Milton and Kenny Rogers...oh my... Sean Casey is a FA at 1B....any thoughts??? He might be a nice addition to the team.... Mike Lowell is the only viable candidate at 3B via FA....which tells me you almost have to being back A-Rod if you are the Yankees... Edited October 11, 2007 by LOTCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The problem with Bonds is there's so much baggage that comes with him. No way is he coming here. This team needs to get younger. Not older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Triumph you DO realize that OBP takes into consideration walks, right, and that his inflated OBP is more highly influenced by his insane walk total than his .276 batting average? Do you realize how much his OBP would go down if he had protection in the lineup? He's one of the most feared hitters in the league because he swings for the fences every at bat, and because pitchers can afford to walk him (See: 75 runs even though he had by far the highest OBP). Not even taking age into consideration, I'd take Prince Fielder on my team over Bonds, based on last year's stats.Is he still one of the best homerun hitters in the game? Sure. But one of the best overall hitters? Ten years ago, definitely...but someone who essentially does nothing but swing for the fences isnt going to be one of the best hitters in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Here are some questions I have about the 2008 Yankees:What is the stance on Andy Pettite? Any chance he will come back??? If he does not, the Yankees will need a LHP...I shudder at the thought of the Yankees considering Tom Glavine...other lefty FA's oinclude former Yankees Eric Milton and Kenny Rogers...oh my... I don't see why a left-handed starter is a necessity - the Red Sox are the favorite to win the World Series without one. Whatever the case, I think Pettitte is coming back. Those other three - the Yankees of the past might've signed them, but neither is a viable option. Milton is terrible and the other two need to find the retirement home. Sean Casey is a FA at 1B....any thoughts??? He might be a nice addition to the team.... Ugh. Please no. Casey used to be a good player but his power disappeared. I loved the line-drive hitting 1Bs of my youth - Wally Joyner, Mark Grace, Hal Morris - but those guys are disappearing for a reason; they're just not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOTCB Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 PLEASE just let this Yankers thread die. The irony in this is, you made 2 posts to ask this thread to die...first off, why is it so important to you and 2nd, you posting in the thread helps keep it alive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The irony in this is, you made 2 posts to ask this thread to die...first off, why is it so important to you and 2nd, you posting in the thread helps keep it alive! He needs a new Mask obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallidevils Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Protection in a lineup now doesn't help a player? What a curious argument - I thought it was the other way around. Well whatever the case, protection in a lineup is mostly immaterial. I'd take Prince Fielder on my team too over Bonds - but only because Prince is much more likely to play 162 games and can play a position on the field. Bonds' fielding isn't very good these days and he has to sit out a fair amount. Bonds is still one of the top hitters in the league. If not the top, in the top three. I said protection in a lineup would tank his OBP. He'd get more pitches to hit - he'd have a higher percentage of homeruns, sure, but considering the mind boggling number of walks he had last season, and considering how much that would go down with protection, his OBP would be very much compromised. Hitting by itself didn't give bonds the OBP he had, it was the walks. Unless I'm very mistaken, a guy with protection isn't going to have an OBP 200 points higher than his batting average. Also, how is protection immaterial? He scored 75 runs last season, and generated 28 of them by himself! When essentially everyone else on the team pales in comparison to him, he's going to get walked, which is an easy OBP raise. Bonds is still a great hitter, but I don't really see his OBP as a good argument for that. Edited October 11, 2007 by metallidevils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) I said protection in a lineup would tank his OBP. He'd get more pitches to hit - he'd have a higher percentage of homeruns, sure, but considering the mind boggling number of walks he had last season, and considering how much that would go down with protection, his OBP would be very much compromised. Hitting by itself didn't give bonds the OBP he had, it was the walks. Unless I'm very mistaken, a guy with protection isn't going to have an OBP 200 points higher than his batting average.Also, how is protection immaterial? He scored 75 runs last season, and generated 28 of them by himself! When essentially everyone else on the team pales in comparison to him, he's going to get walked, which is an easy OBP raise. Bonds is still a great hitter, but I don't really see his OBP as a good argument for that. you're not examining why teams walk Barry Bonds in the first place - because he is really awesome, and he has the best eye in baseball. Protection has little or nothing to do it - protection means very little in general. Barry Bonds used to be protected by Jeff Kent and drew just as many walks. He simply has a tremendous eye, along with all the intentional passes that come from being a great hitter. You don't just walk a guy because you think he's good - he has to be a tremendous hitter to draw that many IBBs. His SLG would rise if his OBP fell. Believe it. Edited October 12, 2007 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 No Tri, you walk Bonds because noone else in the Giants lineup has any business in MLB. When your lineup is one good hitter, seven rejects and the pitcher you don't let the good hitter beat you. Bonds' OBP is a result of the crappy Giants lineup much more so than Bonds' ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 No Tri, you walk Bonds because noone else in the Giants lineup has any business in MLB. When your lineup is one good hitter, seven rejects and the pitcher you don't let the good hitter beat you. Bonds' OBP is a result of the crappy Giants lineup much more so than Bonds' ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) Barry Bonds in pinstripes + no Joe Torre = must-see TV Edited October 12, 2007 by Jerrydevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Well that kid got the last laugh! Shelly Duncan and his oversized head can shove it at far as he's concerned. Hey, maybe Shelley Duncan and Wilson Betemit can be a bang-up platoon at third base next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Well that kid got the last laugh! Shelly Duncan and his oversized head can shove it at far as he's concerned. Hey, maybe Shelley Duncan and Wilson Betemit can be a bang-up platoon at third base next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 They could get that god damn squirrel to play 3rd,it would probably play for peanuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 LMAO! Good one!That rodent's probably sitting on the foul pole, saying, "Where did everybody go?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Good news, it appears that they will retain Pena and have a chance at keeping Bowa. I really hope they keep both of them, especially Bowa. Mattingly has said he is not coming back, and it appears Eiland will replace Guidry which I am fine with has he has worked with the young arms through the minors. Looks like Girardi is the next manager, hopefully he does well. http://www.nyjournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...387/1034/SPORTS The Yankee coaches' contracts expire on Wednesday. Along with Pena, the organization hopes to retain hitting coach Kevin Long. Third-base coach Larry Bowa has an offer from Seattle but delayed a decision in hopes of returning to the Yankees. Pitching coach Ron Guidry is likely to be replaced. The same is probably true of bullpen coach Joe Kerrigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstantOatmeal Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Pettitte to Return to the Yankees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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