2023 New York Mets off-season thread

[NJDevs4978]

Welp life comes at you fast

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

That’s a big-time loss.  Oh well.

Benigno is going to be even further down the warpath now...and on this one, I'm not so sure than I can blame him.  And as much as I was for moving on from Buck, is a rookie manager really the right way to go at this point?

And obviously you don't ever judge Stearns on one move, but this was a guy who was expected to get things done.  Whiffing on Counsell (a guy who Stearns had a VERY obvious link to)...that just...looks and feels bad.  Big-time whimper of a start.  

Edited November 6, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Sounds like he got the bag too - 5 years, $40 million, the highest AAV for a manager in history.

BUT WE NEED A COHEN TAX CAUSE HE’LL SPEND EVERYONE BLIND!

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Of course, for all we know, Counsell was looking to drive his price up through the Mets, and never had much interest in signing here.

But given the Stearns connection and a general "felt like it was meant to be" vibe, this feels like a failure.  Just does.

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah, missing out on Counsell or not, hiring Luis Rojas 2.0 is a bit of a wet blanket atm. When was the last time a first time manager succeeded in NY…Davey? The Mets were actually rebuilding and Davey was enough of a cocky smartass to make it work.

I guess Buck with the Yankees sort of worked too…same situation, rebuilding with zero pressure but he got sh!t canned the minute the pressure got turned up.

Edited November 6, 2023 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah, missing out on Counsell or not, hiring Luis Rojas 2.0 is a bit of a wet blanket atm. When was the last time a first time manager succeeded in NY…Davey? The Mets were actually rebuilding and Davey was enough of a cocky smartass to make it work.

I guess Buck with the Yankees sort of worked too…same situation, rebuilding with zero pressure but he got sh!t canned the minute the pressure got turned up.

This is basically a "You better be RIGHT!" kind of move.  Because yeah it's a plenty soggy blanket.  

[NJDevs4978]

Not to mention the media is gonna be even more annoying about sh!tcanning Buck…it was one thing to do it for Counsell but to do it for a first timer?  Buck’s buddies in the media are going to eviscerate us

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

29 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Not to mention the media is gonna be even more annoying about sh!tcanning Buck…it was one thing to do it for Counsell but to do it for a first timer?  Buck’s buddies in the media are going to eviscerate us

Yeah there's no sugarcoating today...sure, the move can wind up working out, and if so, everyone will be singing praises for Stearns.

But yeah, no matter how Stearns and Co will spin this whenever there's an introductory press conference, the fact is that Mendoza was Plan B Minus at absolute best.  It's impossible to feel like this isn't more of the same ol same ol, Mets manage to miss out on a guy that they really seemed to want.

If I'm the local press, kinda hard not to grill Stearns in a big way.  So why is Mendoza a better fit than Buck?  Is he really who you had in mind when you let Buck go?  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Well, a little more coming out about this whole thing...apparently Stearns (and by extension Cohen) sniffed out that Counsell really didn't have much interest in leaving the midwest (or managing the Mets), so they decided there wasn't much point in letting Counsell's camp use the Mets to try to get more out of the Cubs.  And apparently Counsell and Stearns, though they worked together amicably, weren't as close or as on the same page as was originally believed.  Stearns didn't tab Counsell as his manager, once Stearns got the Brewers gig; Stearns inherited him.  Obviously things worked out reasonably well there, all things considered.

So I expect that the shift will go from "The Mets fail to land their big fish" to "If you weren't 100% sure about Counsell's interest in the Mets, then why were you so quick to fire Buck?  Are the Mets better off with yet another rookie manager?"

I'm hopeful with Stearns ruinning the show, but it's now pretty obvious where this is all going.  Counsell apparently isn't an analytics guy, and neither is Buck.  Stearns absolutely is.  So expect Mendoza to be more of a front-office puppet who has Stearns (and whoever Stearns tabs as his GM) to have a lot of say in every-game decisions, because that's how these guys roll...managers to them are little more than necessary evils, and better to have one with less power and say, so that they can be micromanaged with little ability to chafe about it.

All I care about is results...if Stearns gets them, that's all that matters.  But I can't say that I'm some huge fan of analytics geeks and they way that they go about their business.  All we can do is see how this all turns out.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Mets apparently not done raiding the Brewers’ front office:

https://wisportsheroics.com/milwaukee-brewers-vp-joins-new-york-mets-david-stearns-news/

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Check out these numbers down the stretch:

11 games (9 starts), 38 IP, 53 H, 42 R, 35 ER, 18 BB, 36 K, 8.29 ERA, .855 OPS against.

That was one Marcus Stroman.

This is why no one likes 5' 7" loudmouth "me me me" punks who constantly carry themselves like conquering heroes, but have this way of disappearing when you need them most.  The Cubs have gotta be thrilled that he opted out of his contract...will be interesting to see who makes the mistake of signing this absolute headache of a loser next.  

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah, I’m sure the Cubs will buy a better pitcher in FA anyway, after all the money they spent on a manager especially. Watch Stroman go somewhere like the Nationals or Marlins and just stick it to us three times next year to make his season.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

On 11/13/2023 at 1:04 PM, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah, I’m sure the Cubs will buy a better pitcher in FA anyway, after all the money they spent on a manager especially. Watch Stroman go somewhere like the Nationals or Marlins and just stick it to us three times next year to make his season.

The problem with a guy like him is that he'll get all pumped up for the Mets and more or less blow his wad on them.  And then will forget that pitching well against the teams following the Mets kinda matters too.

FWIW, looks like the Mets might not go hard after Ohtani, if you believe what you read online...to that, I say that it may simply be that he doesn't want the Mets, the East Coast, or both.  I know the Benignos of the world will throw a sh!tfit if the Mets don't get him, but can we at least see what else the Mets do before the complainers inevitably start in with the "Uncle Steve" crap?  Besides, the Angels didn't turn in a single winning record in six seasons with Ohtani.  Maybe signing one megabucks star player (even one as unique as Ohtani) doesn't always make the massive difference that some would like to believe?  

Edited November 15, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Sure doesn't seem like teams are lining up to nab Buck:

Angels: Buck Showalter’s Ron Washington message after losing out on manager job (msn.com)

Maybe MLB is just done with him at this point.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Luis Severino to the Mets, one year, $13 million.

Very meh signing…injury-prone and he was mostly awful last season.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Another meh signing:  utility infielder Joey Wendle (formerly of the Marlins, career 93 OPS+, including a 68 OPS+ over his past two seasons and 213 GP).

Way too early to make too much out of any of this, but it looks like the Mets are going to take a small-to-mid-market approach to this offseason, and try to build from within and save their big-money bullets for future seasons (we'll see if they truly go all-out for Yamamoto).

Easy to scream "Cheapskates!" (among other things), but it is fair to keep in mind that they spent PLENTY last season and that didn't exactly work out for them.  And that spending does NOT guarantee championships or even playoff appearances.  So I'm not going to lose my sh!t too much if the Stearn-era Mets don't go all out trying to hog the backpages with splashy, uber-expensive signings.

Doesn't mean that I love these early signings...I just don't know how much these two are really going to help.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Guess no one here gives a fvck about the Mets at the moment heh heh.

Anyway, Braves make a multi-player deal with the Mariners, which lands them...Jarred Kelenic.

Been over it before, but lest anyone think that last year was some quantum leap forward for him...well, the Mariners basically gave up on him for a reason.  He got off to an insane start for much of the season's opening month, then from April 26 on was PLENTY meh:

335 PA, .231 BA, .310 OB%, .345 SLG%, .655 OPS, 112 K (basically on pace for 200 K in a 600 PA season)

Oh, and he had a BABIP of .353 for the above sample, which suggests that he was actually due for even FURTHER regression...he needed good fortune just to put up very blah numbers.

Basically, as much as it feels like so much of what the Braves touch automatically turns to diamond, they have a LOT of work to do to get Kelenic to perform at an "acceptable everyday player" level.  Over his final 179 PA, Kelenic not only went homerless, he struck out 55 times, and slugged .306.  NO ONE is tolerating insanely high K totals AND a complete lack of power.

He's only 24, but at this rate, he'll be a bench player by 2025.  

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah if he was traded anywhere else I’d probably say whatever but given how much the Braves soup up their bats into career highs across the board I don’t rule out them finding a way to troll us here. Especially since the stupid ‘Brodie won the Diaz trade’ takes are all over social media now, no Kelenic busting in Seattle doesn’t justify overpaying for five years of Cano’s contract and one or two elite years of Diaz before he re-signed in FA

re: Severino he’s the kind of signing the Mets should make - weaponize your cash on short term deals. For all the kvetching on having a $350 million payroll the Mets haven’t really gotten long term anchors on the books though some of that they dodged out of luck (Correa, Bauer, etc)

Edited December 5, 2023 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

20 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah if he was traded anywhere else I’d probably say whatever but given how much the Braves soup up their bats into career highs across the board I don’t rule out them finding a way to troll us here. Especially since the stupid ‘Brodie won the Diaz trade’ takes are all over social media now, no Kelenic busting in Seattle doesn’t justify overpaying for five years of Cano’s contract and one or two elite years of Diaz before he re-signed in FA

re: Severino he’s the kind of signing the Mets should make - weaponize your cash on short term deals. For all the kvetching on having a $350 million payroll the Mets haven’t really gotten long term anchors on the books though some of that they dodged out of luck (Correa, Bauer, etc)

Pretty much Lindor and Nimmo only, as far as uber-long term goes.  And yeah, definitely got some luck, but at least in Correa's case, they made their final decision based on his physical.

Stearns doing a lot of dumpster diving so far...just hope that he's a lot better at it than Sandy was.  I think he's really going to try to build from within...there's definitely worse ways to go.  But lots of Benignos in the Met fan base who are all going to lose their sh!t if Cohen's Mets aren't collecting pricey free agents every year.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Btw the Mets somehow dropped from 7 to 19 in the lottery while the Guardians and Reds both get the top two picks lol, you really have to try to screw up a lottery to do so.

[MadDog2020]

Yankees got Juan Soto late last night. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39060328/sources-yankees-acquire-juan-soto-7-player-trade-padres

Edited December 7, 2023 by MadDog2020

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Yankees got Juan Soto late last night. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39060328/sources-yankees-acquire-juan-soto-7-player-trade-padres

Yeah big move for them.  But obviously they gotta re-sign him (I'd be stunned if they didn't, and if they didn't take care of this pretty quickly).

I'm guessing if the Mets don't get Yamamoto, they won't be doing much of anything "loud", unless it's to try to re-sign Alonso earlier than expected.  

[ButlerBulldog]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:41 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah big move for them.  But obviously they gotta re-sign him (I'd be stunned if they didn't, and if they didn't take care of this pretty quickly).

I'm guessing if the Mets don't get Yamamoto, they won't be doing much of anything "loud", unless it's to try to re-sign Alonso earlier than expected.  

Yankees fan here.  I expect Cashman to talk about an extension with Soto but would be surprised if he actually signs anything before or during the season, as he’s a client of Scott Boras, who likes his players to test the free-agent market to create a bidding war for their services.  I would be shocked, however, if Soto’s not ultimately extended given what the Yankees gave up to get him.

On a related front, Shohei Ohtani is expected to announce his free-agency decision as soon as today.  I’m hearing rumors that the Blue Jays are the front-runner, but nothing’s been confirmed.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 minutes ago, ButlerBulldog said:

Yankees fan here.  I expect Cashman to talk about an extension with Soto but would be surprised if he actually signs anything before or during the season, as he’s a client of Scott Boras, who likes his players to test the free-agent market to create a bidding war for their services.  I would be shocked, however, if Soto’s not ultimately extended given what the Yankees gave up to get him.

On a related front, Shohei Ohtani is expected to announce his free-agency decision as soon as today.  I’m hearing rumors that the Blue Jays are the front-runner, but nothing’s been confirmed.

And this is where Bora$ is SO annoying...the Yankees gave up a fair amount of loot for Soto, and they obviously did so because they want him to be there for a long time.

If Soto wants to see if New York agrees with him (understandable), then sure, I understand waiting.  But if the guy knows this is exactly what he wants...what are ya gonna do $cott?  How many extra pennies are you going to squeeze shopping him around?  Soto's obviously going to get a fvckton of money from the Yankees...does Boras really think any other offer is going to be so much more, when talking about these kinds of numbers? 

 

[ButlerBulldog]

18 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

And this is where Bora$ is SO annoying...the Yankees gave up a fair amount of loot for Soto, and they obviously did so because they want him to be there for a long time.

If Soto wants to see if New York agrees with him (understandable), then sure, I understand waiting.  But if the guy knows this is exactly what he wants...what are ya gonna do $cott?  How many extra pennies are you going to squeeze shopping him around?  Soto's obviously going to get a fvckton of money from the Yankees...does Boras really think any other offer is going to be so much more, when talking about these kinds of numbers? 

 

Scuttlebutt is that Soto would prefer to play on the East Coast, although he’s unlikely to say this publicly.  If that’s true, he’s already limited the pool of teams (Blue Jays, Braves, Mets, Phillies, Red Sox, and Yankees) that can make a serious bid for his services, and some of those are less likely to make an offer given the construction of their roster, pre-existing long-term contracts, etc., so it’s definitely questionable as to whether the bidding war Boras wants will actually happen or whether it will net his client more money or years, even if he has a monster season.

What you’re saying about Soto trying New York on for size makes a lot of sense, as he may want to see if he’s comfortable with the added pressure that comes with playing in such a large market.  If he decides he likes New York but not the Bronx, he would still have the option of staying in the area long-term.