Bonds - Sosa - Jagr

[annabelle]

Before this rule of measuring the stick before shootouts, alot of guys were using illegal sticks...It just so happens Jagr has been the only one stupid enough to play with one, or maybe he just forgot?

[ilzz89]

Its that illeagal stick rule that is stupid, I cant believe you'd compare Jaromir and his (using of illiegal stick) to steroid use, and gambling. I believe most of european players who like to stickhandle use illeagal sticks. All they are, are just with a litttle bigger curve and thats it, its not the end of the world.

Edited March 10, 2006 by ilzz89

[annabelle]

there is no correlation between illegal sticks and steroids. Well maybe the fact that it's cheating, but it's really not the same calibre

[IceThief]

There's no way that you can relate getting caught with a bad stick with one guy who got his hand caught in the medicine cabinet searching for roids and filling needles to inject himself ( I say this with tongue in cheek and a malicious grin on my face) and another who smells suspicious and now looks like a stick with clothes on to shed that suspicious dark cloud that hangs over HIS head. I don't know that you can even say that Jagr's stick incident can be compared with the aforementioned black cloud man's bat of ill-repute.

This debate really has no merit because the situations aren't/weren't the same.

IceThief

[Devils731]

Well I'll jump in and I'll say I can see where Red can draw the comparison. I'll keep it in baseball though. Lets say that a player A takes steroids so he can add 15 homers to his yearly total, now lets say player B corks his bat to add 15 homers to his yearly total, player A used illegal drugs to boost his total while player B only slightly changed his equipment illegally but the positive affect to the end results of both were the same. So one may be morally worse than the other the end result to the game from those 2 instance of cheating were the same.

[Derek21]

I agree about players being role models.. but lets be hinest many kids still look up to them..

as for greenies or boosters... did not know if i did iwould have complained to someone...

I agree with your point about the kids. Oh yeah Red. The greenies had been a part of baseball culture since the 50's. Anything to pick them up before games on almost no rest.

Derek, parents are at a big disadvantage. It is very hard to impress upon your kids honesty, when the stars they want to emmulate cheat. Little children look up to parents. Teenagers in their desire to be their own people look beyond parents. You really can't understand how difficult it is for parents unless you are one. Being an athlete is 100x easier. As for them not wanting to be role models. Too bad, you want the job? Setting a good example is part of the deal.

You could impress upon your child how wrong it is too cheat but if they participate in sports where winning is the mantra, they will look to the athletes behavior. I'm sure Jagr's mom told him cheating was wrong too.

A good post Liz. I agree with the part about teenagers because that's when they go through serious changes and want to become their own person.

Of course, I can't understand how difficult it is. I'm not a parent. But I have experienced some of it with them bringing up my brother.

I think a parent's job is the hardest in life. Because they have the ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY. If I were one, I'd give every ounce to raising my kids the right way.

It's not simillar to the effect of steroids at all. Steroids change your whole body. You could say it is close to using a corked bat but even then it is a hard comparison since it is obvious when a stick is illegal while a corked bat is impossible to tell at first glance.

Using an illegal stick is cheating like speeding on the Parkway is breaking the law.

This sums up my sentiment Petey. Oh btw...in case anyone was curious, training staffs are responsible for doublechecking players' sticks before games. I found that interesting. There appears to be some confusion about this new rule they drew up on the fly.

[Derek21]

I have to say, coaches are to blame. My son plays roller hockey and some of the crap that goes on in those games that the coaches not only condone but tell the kids to do, makes me sick. I tell my son it's wrong, but to him the coach is god. I'm just mom and I don't understand the way the game is played. So I do think athletes/coaches should be honest, not held to a higher standard, just the same standard the rest of us are held to.

Another good post. Coaches definitely have an impact.

There is a difference...Jagr's hair has to be the absolute worst of them all..even though some have more than others...

You liked the mullet better?

[IceThief]

[Well I'll jump in and I'll say I can see where Red can draw the comparison. I'll keep it in baseball though. Lets say that a player A takes steroids so he can add 15 homers to his yearly total, now lets say player B corks his bat to add 15 homers to his yearly total, player A used illegal drugs to boost his total while player B only slightly changed his equipment illegally but the positive affect to the end results of both were the same. So one may be morally worse than the other the end result to the game from those 2 instance of cheating were the same.]

If that's so, then a lot of guys in hockey are guilty of cheating with bad sticks. And I do mean a LOT. I can't relate roids, bad sticks, and tainted bats in the same breath, though. It just doesn't compute in my equation of being one and the same. There is cheating and then there is CHEATING as in substance abuse of performance inhancing drugs.

Here's a story for your enjoyment. I know a player quite well who, during the playoffs in a league quite a while ago, who supposedly played with a stick of ill-repute the entire game. I watched this next sequence of events with considerable delight and nearly fell off my seat laughing hysterically: The coach of the opposing team obviously had been keeping tabs on that stick of ill-repute the entire game. More than once, I saw him studying it and the aforementioned player closely.

Regulation came and went with a tie score and the two teams were headed into the first OT. The two teams went to their respective benches as the ice was cleared and I watched as the aforementioned player very discreetly replaced that stick of ill-repute with a regulation one. The cat-on-a-canary diet look on his face as he glanced toward the ref was absolutely priceless. He knew what was coming.

Exactly two minutes into OT, sure enough, the opposing coach called foul on the aforementioned player and the stick of ill-repute. The ref retrieved the stick and went to measure the curve on the blade. The aforementioned player stood to one side, leaning on the boards, with a "I got you, babe." look on his face. The blade measured legal, the ref signaled a delay of game penalty on the opposing coach who had called foul, the opposing coach totally lost his cool and threw the gate of his bench open, screaming in anger and shock, the fans howled, and the aforementioned player skated back to his bench obviously attempting to stifle his giggls of glee.

He discreetly replaced the measured stick with the stick of ill-repute back on his bench, play was signaled to start, and within 30 seconds of the start of OT, he scored to win the game for his team. They ultimately went on to win the series. The crowd was in hysterics and it was observed (he says with tongue in cheek and a wide, mischevious grin on his face) that the opposing coach was being administered oxygen on his bench as they attempted to revive him from his collapse of horror. ::bursting into quiet laughter at the memory::

Do guys play with sticks of ill-repute? Yup, they do indeed. Do they get caught? Indeed they do and they pay the price for it by sitting in the sin bin hoping that their unfortunate team doesn't get the shaft on the scoreboard. But I don't lump getting caught with a bad stick in with roid juicing.

Did Sosa get caught with a corked bat? Yup. Indeed he did. His excuses for why it was corked were amusing to say the least. I got a laugh out of the whole situation and thought, "Sammy.....Sammy.....Sammy. How gauche? How plebian can you get? A corked bat for God's sake. You were exposed and your reputation is going to suck majorly, but this is too funny for words. You just made my day and year for that matter. Get a clue or buy one, boy." He paid the price by being suspended for X number of games. I believe it was around 6-8 games if I remember correctly.

Did Jagr deserve a suspension for using a stick of ill-repute not once but twice? Nah. They don't suspend for that kind of stuff in the NHL. All it did was make him look dumb as dirt and it ultimately hurt his team in the SO. So yeah, he got his in the end at the expense of his team.

Fact of the matter is, I don't equate tainted bats or sticks of ill-repute with roid cheating. Never have never will. Roid cheating is an animal of a different breed and a bird of a different feather. It's MUCH worse. Therein lies the difference.

I'm not picking on you, Red. Honest to God, I'm not. I'm just stating things as I see them for myself. My tom-foolery is an aquired taste, don't ya know?

IceThief