Formal Ticket Policy Re: 1/8 vs. Lightning

[Vic Rattlehead18]

This is easily prevented by scanning the tickets as they are exchanged. It would allow them to only give 1 ticket per ticket from the TB game.

this is not prevented at all that way. Because now the STH whole really did throw his ticket to the ground and was picked up by someone else, will be getting that STH's ticket. And will the Devils really try to tell the STH he wasn't at that game because his ticket had been brought in already? All it takes is for me to find another ticket and call my friend for him to bring that one with him and say he was at the game.

But I think they should be entitled to the free game as well.

no one is ENTITLED to a free game.

[ThreeCups]

this is not prevented at all that way. Because now the STH whole really did throw his ticket to the ground and was picked up by someone else, will be getting that STH's ticket. And will the Devils really try to tell the STH he wasn't at that game because his ticket had been brought in already? All it takes is for me to find another ticket and call my friend for him to bring that one with him and say he was at the game.

no one is ENTITLED to a free game.

As I said earlier in this thread- if someone sends in tickets from all over the arena it will be obvious it is not their seats. How many people do you honestly think A. Picked up tickets off of the ground and B. Would try to get free tickets from them? A very small amount. In these very rare cases the Devils could credit the STH and the other party if they had to. But like I said, this is a very small amount of people, and it would be VERY obvious if someone tried to do this. Do you think STH's took say all 4 of their tickets and neatly placed them on the ground next to one another for someone to come pick up?

[overtime98]

no one is ENTITLED to a free game.

thats one of the problems in america, entitlement.

[njdevil26]

Just spoke with the Devils and it's all good for my issue.

[njskaguy33]

Just a thought, technologically, I wonder if the Devils are unable to scan tickets from one game and have them honored for a second. From my basic knowledge of databases, every ticket probably has an individual ID that is assigned to a specific game. For example, Ticket # 123 is valid for Game # 40 and belongs to Account # 789. I imagine that when you get your ticket scanned, it flags the system that the ticket is used. Think of it as a checkbox next to the ticket ID in the system...used or un-used. Now, in the case of the makeup game, since it was technically the same game, they may have been able to just use those tickets again by clearing those checkboxes in the system, allowing two scans on one ticket.

Now, fast forward to the free game. Let's say you want to use your Tampa Bay ticket, which was Game 40 lets just say, for tonight's Coyotes game, which is, let's say, Game 43. While they obviously can "clear the checkbox", I wonder if the team would be able to change the Game ID on the ticket from the Tampa Bay game to the game of your choosing. To do this, in the database, they would have to make sure that ticket isn't sold, invalidate the exsisting ticket for that game and seat in the system and change the Game ID on your old ticket to the new Game so it's scanable.

When ThreeCups mentioned the rep saying the system wont let them just swap games, I wonder if there really is a valid tehnological reason why they can't. I know in the system I support, there are certain items you absolutely cannot change because they are "primary keys" in the database...this situation with the re-scanning of tickets and, "they did it for the make up game, why can't they for the freebie" might be exactly that. Maybe the Game ID is such an integral part of the database organization, that it can't be swapped or messed with.

Squish, I'm pretty sure you work in IT as well so maybe you can check my logic on this, but it does make sense that they can't scan your old ticket for the freebie game. Now, you could go back and say, "Well, how come I can't just show up at the box office with my ticket, request a new game and they give me a new ticket." Well, they could, but that method has more chance of error, has a higher chance of being taken advantage of and is much more inconvenient for account holders than just awarding new tickets, by request, via their exsisitng system. And, let's face it, the Devils will never appease everybody so they might as well cater to the 90% who got their tickets via the team. Stubhub obviously has taken care of the 7% who purchased through them which leaves the 3% that got them through other means (Craigslist, message board, buddy who has died and can't give you the freebie game).

In a game that probably had 10K in attendance, 3% out of luck isn't that bad of a casualty. And, ThreeCups, I feel for you, but sometimes in life it just sucks to be you. Hopefully you can get some sort of resolution from the team and you probably will if you complain loud enough.

[ThreeCups]

On a side note: I was at a movie theater last summer when the fire alarm went off with about 10-15 minutes left in the movie. Guess what? The manager issued every person in the theater a ticket for a future movie....People claim that "entitlement" is a problem and I agree to some extent it is. However, in this situation with the half of a game- I think people are entitled to a future game. People paid for a game and did not get it. You did not pay to come see the first half of a game and then return a couple days later for the second half. They did the right thing, but the policy was flawed.

[squishyx]

It's not that people are entitled to a free game for the hell of it, it's that when you purchase a ticket, that ticket says you are entitled to a hockey game. People who have tickets did not get a full hockey game and while it may have been most convenient to make the game up Sunday you can't expect the fans on such short notice to make arrangements. That much was obvious when Doc estimated that about 5,000 people showed up, which is what, almost ~10k short of how many came on the Friday?

The "game" part of the ticket has not been fulfilled, we can argue all day about what the Devils did or did not have to "legally" do to make up for this, but you can not argue what their intent was; give people who had tickets and waited for 2 hours with no announcement during Friday's game a make up. It's black and white in the opening paragraph, the policy they came up with just doesn't do that for everyone. Stubhub generously stepping up to the plate doesn't absolve the Devils of that blunder. So that's what it is, another mistake by the Devils during this situation.

It's not the end of the world, it's not the franchises darkest hour, it doesn't mean people are going to stop going to Devils games, supporting the team or any other dramatics, it's just an incomplete make up policy. I would argue that leaving fans in complete silence for the 2 hours is a much bigger gaffe then this one but it's still a mistake none the less.

[squishyx]

Squish, I'm pretty sure you work in IT as well so maybe you can check my logic on this, but it does make sense that they can't scan your old ticket for the freebie game. Now, you could go back and say, "Well, how come I can't just show up at the box office with my ticket, request a new game and they give me a new ticket." Well, they could, but that method has more chance of error, has a higher chance of being taken advantage of and is much more inconvenient for account holders than just awarding new tickets, by request, via their exsisitng system. And, let's face it, the Devils will never appease everybody so they might as well cater to the 90% who got their tickets via the team. Stubhub obviously has taken care of the 7% who purchased through them which leaves the 3% that got them through other means (Craigslist, message board, buddy who has died and can't give you the freebie game).

I don't know the internal structure of how the Devils manage their ticket records, I would think someone like ticketmaster does all the legwork behind the scenes and the Dev's just contract them. But I work with DB's all day and if it's organized as I imagine it is, it wouldn't be difficult from the server side of things to take care of this. It's unlikely that the Stub ticket number contains all the info you listed, it's probably just a number unique to all tickets. Another DB table of games then has a list of acceptable ticket numbers, there is prob another table of users (think STH's) where ticket numbers are assigned etc.. When they scan your ticket they are doing a look up between the game and the ticket number to see if it's valid. From a technical standpoint it should be pretty easy to handle:

-tell everyone to either mail their stubs in, or bring them to the box office

-once they are received then check to see if they are valid from fridays game

-if they are, check to see if they are in a new list, (those that have gotten make up game tix)

-if no, send them a ticket for a make up game and add to the list

-if yes, refuse

The overhead that comes in with this is that you have to have a staff filter through a bunch of stubs so it's a little more expensive but imo it's also the right way to do it, given that's what they set out to do. The Devils just took the easier / cheaper way out.

Edited January 14, 2010 by squishyx

[ThreeCups]

I don't know the internal structure of how the Devils manage their ticket records, I would think someone like ticketmaster does all the legwork behind the scenes and the Dev's just contract them. But I work with DB's all day and if it's organized as I imagine it is, it wouldn't be difficult from the server side of things to take care of this. It's unlikely that the Stub ticket number contains all the info you listed, it's probably just a number unique to all tickets. Another DB table of games then has a list of acceptable ticket numbers, there is prob another table of users (think STH's) where ticket numbers are assigned etc.. When they scan your ticket they are doing a look up between the game and the ticket number to see if it's valid. From a technical standpoint it should be pretty easy to handle:

-tell everyone to either mail their stubs in, or bring them to the box office

-once they are received then check to see if they are valid from fridays game

-if they are, check to see if they are in a new list, (those that have gotten make up game tix)

-if no, send them a ticket for a make up game and add to the list

-if yes, refuse

The overhead that comes in with this is that you have to have a staff filter through a bunch of stubs so it's a little more expensive but imo it's also the right way to do it, given that's what they set out to do. The Devils just took the easier / cheaper way out.

Winner. Thank you. Exactly what I have been saying. It is possible, but they took the easier and cheaper way out. Nail on the head, sir.

[njskaguy33]

I don't know the internal structure of how the Devils manage their ticket records, I would think someone like ticketmaster does all the legwork behind the scenes and the Dev's just contract them. But I work with DB's all day and if it's organized as I imagine it is, it wouldn't be difficult from the server side of things to take care of this. It's unlikely that the Stub ticket number contains all the info you listed, it's probably just a number unique to all tickets. Another DB table of games then has a list of acceptable ticket numbers, there is prob another table of users (think STH's) where ticket numbers are assigned etc.. When they scan your ticket they are doing a look up between the game and the ticket number to see if it's valid. From a technical standpoint it should be pretty easy to handle:

-tell everyone to either mail their stubs in, or bring them to the box office

-once they are received then check to see if they are valid from fridays game

-if they are, check to see if they are in a new list, (those that have gotten make up game tix)

-if no, send them a ticket for a make up game and add to the list

-if yes, refuse

The overhead that comes in with this is that you have to have a staff filter through a bunch of stubs so it's a little more expensive but imo it's also the right way to do it, given that's what they set out to do. The Devils just took the easier / cheaper way out.

Fair points, squish. Just throwing some food for thought out there on what's been a highly entertaining thread up until this point. Just to clarify, I work on the UI side of the system, not on the DB, which is why I thought I would loop you in on the discussion...I trust your thoughts on DB design much more than mine! While I agree that the method the Devils employed is indeed easier and cheaper, it's effective for the most amount of people in their "target of interest", which is people with plans and STH's. The Devils are a big business and in a big business you need to make life easiest for your highest paying customer. I feel for those left out of the loop, but that's the reality of business.

In the end, though, it's looking like almost everybody is getting taken care of one way or another, so the end result seems to be fine. Sure the Devs could have been more inclusive but I think they did the best they could with the extraordinary situation at hand. And I totally agree that leaving fans in attendance "in the dark" during the blackout is a much bigger issue than the free game distribution. When people watching at home know more about the situation than the people in attendance, there is a big problem there.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Bulletproof

[DaneykoIsGod]

Just throwing this out there ... We all know this was unusual for hockey, so why not take a page from a sport that deals with similar situations? This is the Yankees' rain policy:

RAINOUT/RESCHEDULE POLICY

RAIN CHECK POLICY (DOES NOT APPLY TO TICKETS PURCHASED VIA STUBHUB):

This Ticket is not subject to any refund and shall bear no cash value. In the event a legal game as defined by Major League Baseball (i.e., 4 1/2 innings if the Club is ahead and 5 full innings if the Club is behind or the Game is tied) is not played due to weather, an act of God or any other reason, this Ticket will constitute a rain check that can either be: (i) used for admission to the rescheduled game, if any, subject to certain double header limitations (see below); or (ii) exchanged for a same priced ticket to any regular season home game of the Club within 12 months of the originally scheduled Game, subject to availability.

So, if the Devils had applied that to Lightgate, we'd be left with a situation where you could use your ticket as a rain check for a ticket of equal or lesser value to a game within one year, right (I think this is pretty much what you were hoping for, right ThreeCups?)? Does anyone know how rainouts affect baseball STH?

I mean, technically, the Devils didn't have to do Jack Squat since the tickets purchased for this game could have been used to watch a full three periods of hockey. The aforementioned baseball rain policy is for situations where the game is a wash and either rescheduled entirely or outright cancelled, and neither was the case here. That they're doing anything at all for anyone is kind of remarkable, given the Devils' track record in fan relations.

Edited January 14, 2010 by DaneykoIsGod

[Vic Rattlehead18]

And I totally agree that leaving fans in attendance "in the dark" during the blackout is a much bigger issue than the free game distribution. When people watching at home know more about the situation than the people in attendance, there is a big problem there.

I don't think this is true. What fans at home knew over fans at the arena is exactly the same. Fans at the arena SAW that the lights were out. Fans on tv saw and were told that the lights were out. They didn't give us anymore information at home than would have been beneficial to the fans at the game. Saying "we're trying to get the lights back on for you" is an obvious statement and really redundant. Was there actually a fan at the arena who thought they weren't trying to get the lights back on or something? I don't understand what people wanted to hear while waiting for the situation to be fixed. The only argument I can understand is for the screen to show the MSG feed. But like I said in a previous post, it might not be set up that way.

[ThreeCups]

Just throwing this out there ... We all know this was unusual for hockey, so why not take a page from a sport that deals with similar situations? This is the Yankees' rain policy:

So, if the Devils had applied that to Lightgate, we'd be left with a situation where you could use your ticket as a rain check for a ticket of equal or lesser value to a game within one year, right (I think this is pretty much what you were hoping for, right ThreeCups?)? Does anyone know how rainouts affect baseball STH?

YES. I did not even want it to be as broad as that policy, just give me a ticket to ANY game in the future.

[njskaguy33]

I don't think this is true. What fans at home knew over fans at the arena is exactly the same. Fans at the arena SAW that the lights were out. Fans on tv saw and were told that the lights were out. They didn't give us anymore information at home than would have been beneficial to the fans at the game. Saying "we're trying to get the lights back on for you" is an obvious statement and really redundant. Was there actually a fan at the arena who thought they weren't trying to get the lights back on or something? I don't understand what people wanted to hear while waiting for the situation to be fixed. The only argument I can understand is for the screen to show the MSG feed. But like I said in a previous post, it might not be set up that way.

I was actually alluding to the idea of putting the MSG feed on the scoreboard so people had something to look at and get information, even if there was no information to give. Steve and Dano kept saying, "We don't know when the lights are coming back on, we have no new information, etc, etc", but even that's better than leaving an arena with 10,000 people with absolutely no clue as to what ws going on.

All that being said, I really can't kill the Devils for the way they handled it...it's much easier to handle a situation a week later like we are than it is in the moment. However, I do hope they learn from this odd situation and do a little more to keep the people in attendance informed. As for the tickets, DiG is right, this is much better customer service than what the Devs have been known to do in the past. Baby steps, people, baby steps!

[David Puddy]

I wasn't at the game, but a few announcements would've helped placate people I think. It's like when you walk into a busy bar... you feel much better if the bartender acknowledges you're there and he'll get to you rather than purposely trying not to make eye contact.

[DaneykoIsGod]

I wasn't at the game, but a few announcements would've helped placate people I think. It's like when you walk into a busy bar... you feel much better if the bartender acknowledges you're there and he'll get to you rather than purposely trying not to make eye contact.

I wasn't there either, and based on the accounts of those who were, yeah, it seems like the Devils did nothing to keep those in attendance in the loop. And that sucks. But really, I doubt many there really knew any less about what was going on than the people at home.

If you were there, raise your hand if you weren't getting second-hand updates somehow. (Examples: calling/texting someone who was watching on TV; overhearing conversations from people who were calling/texting someone who was watching on TV; badgering Cangialosi during commercial breaks for updates; etc.)

[thelastonealive]

If you were there, raise your hand if you weren't getting second-hand updates somehow. (Examples: calling/texting someone who was watching on TV; overhearing conversations from people who were calling/texting someone who was watching on TV; badgering Cangialosi during commercial breaks for updates; etc.)

If I'm playing devil's (or Devils) advocate here, that's my argument. I was there, and between phone calls back and forth and reading TG's blog on my phone, we were able to stay pretty well updated as to what was going on (no more or less than those watching on TV, anyway).

That said, a bit of "official" communication, even if it's just a "we're sorry for the delay, still working on the problem" type thing, is always welcomed. But in a world as connected as we are now, I don't think it was as absolutely necessary as it would have been 10 or 20 years ago.