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#101 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:42 PM

C'mon Tri, you're making it sound like if only Lou had had your good sense, he would've told Marty to take a hike after the guy was a part of a Cup finalist.     


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#102 Triumph

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:48 PM

C'mon Tri, you're making it sound like if only Lou had had your good sense, he would've told Marty to take a hike after the guy was a part of a Cup finalist.     

 

A 1 year deal at most was what was called for.  But instead we got 2 years.  And who knows, maybe 3 years or 4 years, depending on how desperate Brodeur is.  The contract was an absolutely horrific value.


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#103 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:56 PM

A 1 year deal at most was what was called for.  But instead we got 2 years.  And who knows, maybe 3 years or 4 years, depending on how desperate Brodeur is.  The contract was an absolutely horrific value.

 

Are you ignoring what's been posted previously?  The lockout (unfortunately) factored into the second year.  As well as other teams offering the same. 

 

Not saying that the contract represented a great value (from a pure performance standpoint, it clearly didn't), but again, do you think Lou is telling Marty "Go get your second year somewhere else, thanks for everything but we don't need you anymore"?  When a guy has done as much for your franchise as Marty has, for as long as he has, you're not just coldly showing him the door that way. 

 

But as I and others have said, no more lifetime achievement, thank you deals.  It has to end sometime. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#104 Triumph

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:13 PM

Yes, because there are no legacy contracts in sports.  Give him one year with a handshake agreement that he gets a second year if the lockout wipes out the entire season.  If not, tough break.


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#105 Lateralous

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:00 PM

As someone who hoped that Brodeur would retire right after the 2012 finals and hated the 2 year deal for Brodeur, I'm not sure Lou had much of a choice there.  Brodeur basically strong armed him into a 2 year deal by grabbing an agent and soliciting offers from other clubs when he knew there was no way JVB was letting the 2 most recognizable faces of the franchise walk out the door in the same summer.  It's one of those moves that goes beyond the obvious best choice on paper.  That's why I find this past season and all of Brodeur's crying about playing time especially distasteful, he was the one who pushed for that 2nd year. There's absolutely no way the club was pushing for that 2nd year and MB41 would have been free to go wherever he wanted when Lou traded for a better goalie last summer.          


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#106 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:01 AM

Yes, because there are no legacy contracts in sports.  Give him one year with a handshake agreement that he gets a second year if the lockout wipes out the entire season.  If not, tough break.

 

C'mon, you've been watching sports long enough (I think it was 1996 when you decided to see what this sports thing is all about) to know that contracts that basically amount to "legacy" deals (Mickey Mantle getting $100K per year at the end of his career is a prime example, though there have been many others), that aren't going to necessarily be great pure value contracts, or present some risk, do get handed out.  The reasons why these deals are offered vary from case to case, but it usually comes down to as a reward for service, for loyalty, for having contributed to championships, or simply because there's no suitable replacement.  And right or wrong, pure PR plays into these things...there would have been a major outcry from many Devils fans if Marty had just been allowed to walk, along with Parise, after the team had just reached the SCF.  Even NOW, inexplicably, there's still Devils fans who hate the idea of Marty ever wearing another jersey, even though it's pretty obvious that now he TRULY doesn't have much left, and those fans would rather see him stay here next season, no matter how detrimental that would be, to avoid the possibility of him playing for another team (at this point, I don't care if he goes...I saw his best, and lately, his worst.  I've posted about letting faded stars Messier their way into sticking around much longer than they should, and if Marty's back, than neither Lou nor Marty are sympathetic figures anymore).  Like I've said, with EVERYTHING that was going on in 2012, I can understand why Lou did what he did.  In 2014, the only thing I can understand and get on board with is Marty leaving, regardless of the final destination.   

 

If Marty's 2011 and 2012 seasons had been similar to 2013 and 2014, I doubt he gets the lifetime achievement contract.  But there was just enough good play in 2011 and 2012 (and Marty's best play of those two years came in 2012 in the latter games) that both Lou AND Marty (and apparently some other teams) thought there was something left.  And yeah, Lou was probably feeling nostalgic and euphoric at the time. 

 

You can argue that Marty wasn't exactly a saint here...like Lateralous posted, after simply negotiating most of his contracts with Lou one-on-one, Marty suddenly changed tactics and decided to hardball a bit more, in an offseason where he knew Lou was going to be busy and hamstrung by VBK's financial issues.  Though Lou was clearly willing to go the "legacy deal" route (I think mostly because he thought Marty still had something left and could still turn in decent seasons), Marty clearly seemed to have an idea as to what the legacy deal should be.  Some might call that good business on Marty's part, especially getting the second year, lockout or no lockout...but yeah, there's a bit of a "strong-arm" feel to his tactics there.  A one-year, $5-$6 million deal would've been better off for everyone in the long run, but it didn't go that way. 

 

We can debate what Lou should or shouldn't have done, but the good news is that this business should really be 100% over now (God I hope so...the idea of Marty still being here next season is truly terrifying).  Hopefully Marty either calls it quits or is wearing another team's jersey.  If he somehow manages to win 10-15 more games with someone else, so be it...the first 688 came here.  We'll get to celebrate him in other, more rewarding ways (jersey retirement, etc) that won't involve him being a shell of himself on the ice.    


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 13 May 2014 - 07:05 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#107 Triumph

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:20 AM

C'mon, you've been watching sports long enough (I think it was 1996 when you decided to see what this sports thing is all about) to know that contracts that basically amount to "legacy" deals (Mickey Mantle getting $100K per year at the end of his career is a prime example, though there have been many others), that aren't going to necessarily be great pure value contracts, or present some risk, do get handed out.  The reasons why these deals are offered vary from case to case, but it usually comes down to as a reward for service, for loyalty, for having contributed to championships, or simply because there's no suitable replacement.  And right or wrong, pure PR plays into these things...there would have been a major outcry from many Devils fans if Marty had just been allowed to walk, along with Parise, after the team had just reached the SCF.  Even NOW, inexplicably, there's still Devils fans who hate the idea of Marty ever wearing another jersey, even though it's pretty obvious that now he TRULY doesn't have much left, and those fans would rather see him stay here next season, no matter how detrimental that would be, to avoid the possibility of him playing for another team (at this point, I don't care if he goes...I saw his best, and lately, his worst.  I've posted about letting faded stars Messier their way into sticking around much longer than they should, and if Marty's back, than neither Lou nor Marty are sympathetic figures anymore).  Like I've said, with EVERYTHING that was going on in 2012, I can understand why Lou did what he did.  In 2014, the only thing I can understand and get on board with is Marty leaving, regardless of the final destination.   

 

If Marty's 2011 and 2012 seasons had been similar to 2013 and 2014, I doubt he gets the lifetime achievement contract.  But there was just enough good play in 2011 and 2012 (and Marty's best play of those two years came in 2012 in the latter games) that both Lou AND Marty (and apparently some other teams) thought there was something left.  And yeah, Lou was probably feeling nostalgic and euphoric at the time. 

 

You can argue that Marty wasn't exactly a saint here...like Lateralous posted, after simply negotiating most of his contracts with Lou one-on-one, Marty suddenly changed tactics and decided to hardball a bit more, in an offseason where he knew Lou was going to be busy and hamstrung by VBK's financial issues.  Though Lou was clearly willing to go the "legacy deal" route (I think mostly because he thought Marty still had something left and could still turn in decent seasons), Marty clearly seemed to have an idea as to what the legacy deal should be.  Some might call that good business on Marty's part, especially getting the second year, lockout or no lockout...but yeah, there's a bit of a "strong-arm" feel to his tactics there.  A one-year, $5-$6 million deal would've been better off for everyone in the long run, but it didn't go that way. 

 

We can debate what Lou should or shouldn't have done, but the good news is that this business should really be 100% over now (God I hope so...the idea of Marty still being here next season is truly terrifying).  Hopefully Marty either calls it quits or is wearing another team's jersey.  If he somehow manages to win 10-15 more games with someone else, so be it...the first 688 came here.  We'll get to celebrate him in other, more rewarding ways (jersey retirement, etc) that won't involve him being a shell of himself on the ice.    

 

Don't condescend to me, I know plenty of sports history and have been a sports fan for longer than 1996.  I've corrected you on this point several times but you persist.

 

I am aware of why legacy contracts are handed out.  They are absolutely murderous when given to quarterbacks or goalies, because you simply cannot get by with a bad one of these.  Plenty of championships have been won with average quarterbacks and average goalies, but it takes a team that is high quality in other areas (and in the case of both usually involves that player playing at a higher level than he had in his career to date, e.g. Cam Ward).  Very few championships, if any at all, have been won by bad quarterbacks or bad goalies, because these things just sink a team.  And so the Devils have been sunk the last two years because they didn't learn - even when they added another goalie, they didn't learn.  And again I'm not sure if they will learn because if they get Schneider's name on a long-term contract who cares if Brodeur comes back and starts 25 games?

 

A one year $6M contract for a guy who just put up a .907 in two years?  That's horrendous.  There's an old adage that still has some truth - if you listen to the fans when making your decisions, you will soon be sitting with them.  How'd the Yankees do when Mantle was getting his legacy contracts?  It's up to management to be smart about things, especially if they're looking to win.


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#108 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:38 AM

Don't condescend to me, I know plenty of sports history and have been a sports fan for longer than 1996.  I've corrected you on this point several times but you persist.

 

I am aware of why legacy contracts are handed out.  They are absolutely murderous when given to quarterbacks or goalies, because you simply cannot get by with a bad one of these.  Plenty of championships have been won with average quarterbacks and average goalies, but it takes a team that is high quality in other areas (and in the case of both usually involves that player playing at a higher level than he had in his career to date, e.g. Cam Ward).  Very few championships, if any at all, have been won by bad quarterbacks or bad goalies, because these things just sink a team.  And so the Devils have been sunk the last two years because they didn't learn - even when they added another goalie, they didn't learn.  And again I'm not sure if they will learn because if they get Schneider's name on a long-term contract who cares if Brodeur comes back and starts 25 games?

 

A one year $6M contract for a guy who just put up a .907 in two years?  That's horrendous.  There's an old adage that still has some truth - if you listen to the fans when making your decisions, you will soon be sitting with them.  How'd the Yankees do when Mantle was getting his legacy contracts?  It's up to management to be smart about things, especially if they're looking to win.

 

 

You're thinking of someone else, re:  1996 and whenever it was you started watching sports.  I only remember bringing this up with you once, when you appeared to contradict yourself (which other people noticed at the time), when you had previously said you didn't really start watching the Devils until '96, but then later said you watched them during the Cup run. 

 

Again, I'm not saying a $5-$6 million, one-year deal would've been anything close to a good value, but (hopefully) we would've had to deal with only one bad year instead of two.  That alone would've have made it worth it, in that Marty would've gotten a nice "thank you" payday in a shortened season, and the Devils could've moved on with a clear conscience, and even a lot of fans would have understood the Devils not bringing him back.  And if Lou would've still dealt for Cory, then he would've been the unquestioned #1, end of story.    


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 13 May 2014 - 09:39 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#109 Triumph

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:56 AM

You're thinking of someone else, re:  1996 and whenever it was you started watching sports.  I only remember bringing this up with you once, when you appeared to contradict yourself (which other people noticed at the time), when you had previously said you didn't really start watching the Devils until '96, but then later said you watched them during the Cup run.

 

No, I'm not.  I am thinking of you.  Because you are mistaken on this point (that I claimed I didn't start watching the Devils until '96 - I never said this, because it is not true), and I won't continue the discussion further if you persist in being wrong.  In fairness, I did not correct you several times, but I corrected you once, which should be enough for someone with a long memory.

 

 

Again, I'm not saying a $5-$6 million, one-year deal would've been anything close to a good value, but (hopefully) we would've had to deal with only one bad year instead of two.  That alone would've have made it worth it, in that Marty would've gotten a nice "thank you" payday in a shortened season, and the Devils could've moved on with a clear conscience, and even a lot of fans would have understood the Devils not bringing him back.  And if Lou would've still dealt for Cory, then he would've been the unquestioned #1, end of story.  

 

I don't think Lou saw that Brodeur is finished.  I still don't think he sees it.  So I don't think he would've moved on without Brodeur that year.


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#110 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:11 AM

No, I'm not.  I am thinking of you.  Because you are mistaken on this point (that I claimed I didn't start watching the Devils until '96 - I never said this, because it is not true), and I won't continue the discussion further if you persist in being wrong.  In fairness, I did not correct you several times, but I corrected you once, which should be enough for someone with a long memory.

 

 

I don't think Lou saw that Brodeur is finished.  I still don't think he sees it.  So I don't think he would've moved on without Brodeur that year.

 

Guess everyone else who remembered you saying the same thing at that time, guess they were all wrong too then.  So for the record, when did you start watching Devils hockey?  This way we can all be sure not to mess this up again.

 

I can't disagree that Lou might've re-signed Marty after 2013...I can hope that off a one-year deal where Marty clearly played pretty badly, that Lou would've simply made the Schneider deal, made another deal for a backup (or gone with Kinkaid), and we all could've moved on, even if it might have felt a little abrupt (and I would definitely take abrupt over too long, which is how last year felt with Marty, especially once the quotes starting spilling out).  But would've it have surprised me if Lou had signed Marty up for another one-year deal before the 2013-14 season?  I can't rightly say that it would've. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#111 Triumph

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:36 AM

Guess everyone else who remembered you saying the same thing at that time, guess they were all wrong too then.  So for the record, when did you start watching Devils hockey?  This way we can all be sure not to mess this up again.

 

They were all wrong, but the other people who were wrong are also stupid - you're not.  I explained it in that thread.  I started watching the Devils regularly in 1995.  That was the year they won the Stanley Cup.  My family did not get Sports Channel until that year.  What I said was I did not start following the NHL until 1996 (which is probably not even really accurate, but I was certainly not anywhere close to a knowledgeable fan in 1995).

 

 

I can't disagree that Lou might've re-signed Marty after 2013...I can hope that off a one-year deal where Marty clearly played pretty badly, that Lou would've simply made the Schneider deal, made another deal for a backup (or gone with Kinkaid), and we all could've moved on, even if it might have felt a little abrupt (and I would definitely take abrupt over too long, which is how last year felt with Marty, especially once the quotes starting spilling out).  But would've it have surprised me if Lou had signed Marty up for another one-year deal before the 2013-14 season?  I can't rightly say that it would've.

 

Brodeur has so few places he might want to play, it just doesn't seem like he'll ever find a home that isn't here.


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#112 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:44 AM

They were all wrong, but the other people who were wrong are also stupid - you're not.  I explained it in that thread.  I started watching the Devils regularly in 1995.  That was the year they won the Stanley Cup.  My family did not get Sports Channel until that year.  What I said was I did not start following the NHL until 1996 (which is probably not even really accurate, but I was certainly not anywhere close to a knowledgeable fan in 1995).

 

 

Brodeur has so few places he might want to play, it just doesn't seem like he'll ever find a home that isn't here.

 

I'm really going to be surprised if he finds a job before the season starts (I continue to hope that another season with the Devils is not an option for him).  That's not to say it's 100% that he CAN'T find a job somewhere during the season if someone (or multiple someones for one team) gets hurt, etc.  I just hope he retires and stays retired.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#113 Daniel

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:49 AM

 

I don't think Lou saw that Brodeur is finished.  I still don't think he sees it.  So I don't think he would've moved on without Brodeur that year.

 

Lou does not make the Schneider deal if he didn't think Brodeur was finished, or something close to that.  And even if he didn't then, he probably got a real education at the trade deadline.  While you keep saying that Lou just didn't want to trade him, the more logical explanation is that interest dried up to the point that the return would be completely insignificant, and it would just embarrass Marty. 

 

The goalies that did get traded all went to teams that weren't of a Garth Snow level of incompentence.  In other words, they probably looked almost entirely at the numbers and salary.  They realized, or more likely knew all along, that they could acquire cheaper, younger and better goalies for fourth or fifth round picks. 

 

I'll take this all back if Lou gives Marty a new deal, even at the league minimum.  The caveat is that the calculus might change if Schneider has indicated that he will not sign an extension.  At that point, he might just say why the hell not, with the worst case scenario being a top three pick next year. 


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#114 Triumph

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:03 PM

Lou does not make the Schneider deal if he didn't think Brodeur was finished, or something close to that.  And even if he didn't then, he probably got a real education at the trade deadline.  While you keep saying that Lou just didn't want to trade him, the more logical explanation is that interest dried up to the point that the return would be completely insignificant, and it would just embarrass Marty. 

 

The goalies that did get traded all went to teams that weren't of a Garth Snow level of incompentence.  In other words, they probably looked almost entirely at the numbers and salary.  They realized, or more likely knew all along, that they could acquire cheaper, younger and better goalies for fourth or fifth round picks. 

 

I'll take this all back if Lou gives Marty a new deal, even at the league minimum.  The caveat is that the calculus might change if Schneider has indicated that he will not sign an extension.  At that point, he might just say why the hell not, with the worst case scenario being a top three pick next year. 

 

There's a difference between thinking that Brodeur might retire and that Brodeur might no longer be a starting caliber goalie.  I think fear of A was Lou's fear, and that is why he made the trade - for the long term.  Furthermore, Brodeur had missed time due to injury in the last 3 years and 4 of the last 5, so there was no guarantee that he could make it through a season, and I consider it a minor miracle that he didn't suffer any injuries last year.  I think in Lou's mind, Brodeur is still a capable starting goalie and that he'd love to have him as a backup next year, if possible.

 

Did the Devils have a third goalie they could just plug in behind Brodeur?  No, so why would they trade him?  It never made sense - it was only all the saber rattling from Brodeur talking about all the great places he could play and he wanted to start more and so on and so forth.


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#115 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:31 PM

Triumph and CR76 fighting is like mommy and daddy fighting. I dunno why but I desperately wish both of them were right. :P
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#116 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:49 PM

Triumph and CR76 fighting is like mommy and daddy fighting. I dunno why but I desperately wish both of them were right. :P

 

That's a good one, lol.  Me and Tri locking horns is inevitable at least 2-3 times a year.   

 

Tri's kind of a pure science-and-numbers guy who thinks decisions should be made strictly from that viewpoint, while I'm more somewhere in the middle (or more someone who understands why difficult decisions aren't always made on pure numbers alone...human emotions will factor in, especially when it's a guy who's meant as much to the Devils as Marty has).  Though the 2011 and 2012 samples were inconsistent overall, Tri is right in that to expect Marty to somehow top the .907 overall he put up (both regular season and playoffs) would've been bad business, and given Marty's age and mileage, it probably wasn't right to expect him to even match .907.  Ironically, I understand where Tri is coming from, even though my posts might seem to suggest otherwise.  I just don't think it's a realistic tact that a guy in Lou's position could've taken at the time.  Just like a lot of things came together that helped cause Parise to bolt, a lot of things came together that led to Marty getting two years out of the Devils.   


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#117 Daniel

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 01:52 PM

There's a difference between thinking that Brodeur might retire and that Brodeur might no longer be a starting caliber goalie.  I think fear of A was Lou's fear, and that is why he made the trade - for the long term.  Furthermore, Brodeur had missed time due to injury in the last 3 years and 4 of the last 5, so there was no guarantee that he could make it through a season, and I consider it a minor miracle that he didn't suffer any injuries last year.  I think in Lou's mind, Brodeur is still a capable starting goalie and that he'd love to have him as a backup next year, if possible.

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is pretty far fetched.  Hedberg was under contract, and Lou always stated that he believed Hedberg to be a legitimate NHL goalie.  If you want to take Lou at his word on Marty, it's only fair that you do so for Hedberg.  If it was just the fear of retirement, Lou could have called up his buddy Lombardi and given up less for Bernier, or slew of younger goalies, that switch teams all the time.  He could have also given Marty another extension on July 1 that there was a handshake deal on ahead of time to nip any retirement threat in the bud. 


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How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#118 Triumph

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 02:11 PM

I'm sorry, but this is pretty far fetched.  Hedberg was under contract, and Lou always stated that he believed Hedberg to be a legitimate NHL goalie.  If you want to take Lou at his word on Marty, it's only fair that you do so for Hedberg.  If it was just the fear of retirement, Lou could have called up his buddy Lombardi and given up less for Bernier, or slew of younger goalies, that switch teams all the time.  He could have also given Marty another extension on July 1 that there was a handshake deal on ahead of time to nip any retirement threat in the bud. 

 

How is it far fetched?  Brodeur played 38 games this year.  Hedberg was much worse than Brodeur and he was the same age, not hard to throw him overboard.  One of those things has to be an untruth, otherwise Hedberg and Brodeur would still be here.

 

Just because there were other goalies available doesn't mean that Lou wanted one of those.


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#119 Daniel

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 02:26 PM

How is it far fetched?  Brodeur played 38 games this year.  Hedberg was much worse than Brodeur and he was the same age, not hard to throw him overboard.  One of those things has to be an untruth, otherwise Hedberg and Brodeur would still be here.

 

Just because there were other goalies available doesn't mean that Lou wanted one of those.

 

I'm saying that Lou was saying the diplomatic things as he always does, especially when it comes to all matters Marty. 

 

If he really thought that Marty had more years left in him, much less that he was still a legitimate NHL starter, he would not have traded the number 9 pick for someone that he would have to expect to pay at least $6 million per year to play 40 games for the next two or three years. 

 

The 38 games this season?  It was pretty puzzling in that we really don't know for sure who's call that was, whether it was PDB, Lou or a combination of the two.  But otherwise, it was a fairly straightforward "hot hand" strategy, starting on the assumption that going into the season, Marty was still a legitimate starter, which was common wisdom outside of the analytics community.  It's hard to say whether Lou actually believed it, but Marty had enough prestige that even someone like Lou would be willing to suspend disbelief. 


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How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?




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