New York Mets 2017 Season Thread

['7']

Great job by deGrom. One of the few true winners on this team. I'm about ready to shut him down though. Let's just save the bullets. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 hours ago, '7' said:

Great job by deGrom. One of the few true winners on this team. I'm about ready to shut him down though. Let's just save the bullets. 

I'm not a huge fan of shutting guys down just for the sake of doing so.  As long as deGrom isn't fatigued or isn't in discomfort, I say just let him finish out the season...he's actually going to pitch 200+ innings, which is fvcking miracle in these parts.

He's obviously had a good (though inconsistent) year overall, but when you compare his 2015 to his 2017 season, he's definitely not as good as he was.  He's K'd more guys in 2017, but he was considerably more dominant otherwise.  Still wonder if Sandy dares to sign him to any kind of long-term deal that eats up his remaining arb years (something in the 5-6 year range...he has three arb years left).  If the Mets are a lost cause the next couple of seasons and deGrom is still pitching well and staying healthy, it would be a very movable contract.  And suddenly you're not worried about having to ever having to sign Harvey to big money...or Wheeler, for that matter.  Outside of deGrom and possibly Syndergaard, there's really no big deals on the horizon for Met homegrowns...if the Mets are considering a semi-pricey long-term deal for deGrom, they don't really have a valid excuse not to do it.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 hours ago, '7' said:

Reyes would no doubt go play somewhere simply because he can play multiple positions and run. He wouldn't start on any club worth a damn but if you need him to play for 2-3 weeks while somebody recovers on the DL it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I just don't want him here. We totally need to bury the Reyes/Wright past already. 

I've said this for years, but yeah, the Wright/Reyes Unclutch Loser Era needs to end.  Those guys had their shot, and even when they were putting up nice numbers, they never got it done when you really needed them to.  That's only gotten worse as they've aged, and Reyes has a way of negatively affecting every team he's been on...some losers just have a way of contaminating everything they touch.  Just get him the fvck out of here already.  I don't give a sh!t how much he's fattening up in meaningless games...though the Mets probably do.  If they actually don't bring him back, I might start to believe that Sandy isn't as worthless as I think he is. 

------------------------------------

How often is it that guys come FROM the PCL and see their power numbers increase?  Dominic Smith would be on pace for 30+ HR over a full season at this rate...sure, this could be a total fluke, but overall, both he and Rosario have held their own...neither is being embarrassed, and in Smith's case, he battled through a tough start and didn't let it weigh him down...he's quietly having an awesome September (.315/.383/.630 slash, 1.013 OPS, 4 HR and 14 RBI in 15 GP).  It's a small sample, but still fun to see a kid have a run like that.

Starting to think that Cabrera's option may get picked up...it's not a thrilling prospect, but he's cheap ($8.5 million option for 2018), and I don't trust Sandy to go out and find a solid bargain replacement (that's likely the route he would take and he's whiffed on a lot of those kinds of signings) that will do a better job.  Like Reyes, Cabrera is fattening up a bit in garbage time, and you gotta wonder how much of a liability he'll be in the field for a team that desperately needs to address its defense...but I can't see Sandy waving good bye to both Reyes AND Cabrera (Cecchini just hasn't shown enough), so if I have to choose one or the other, I go with Cabrera.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

I honestly think Dom's power numbers improving is more proof the MLB ball is juiced lol...in any case, it is encouraging though.  Whatever people may think of Bruce, Grandy, Duda and Walker that's a lot of power walking out the door and the Mets are going to need to replace some of it at least. Especially since Conforto's now a question mark for the beginning of next season too.  It'd be nice if Dom was at least a league average (20+) power source at 1B, in addition to all the other attributes he's supposed to have (good hitter/fielder).

re: deGrom he's stated 200 IP is a goal of his.  He's at 195.1 so he should go over it in his next start.  He's only scheduled for two more starts (both at home) anyway, so might as well ride it out.  Maybe you only pitch him five innings in each start, a soft ramp down.

Edited September 17, 2017 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Speaking of Doofus...curious to see what kind of offers he gets as a free agent.  The guy predictably did next to nothing with the Rays (other than club some homers, which he can do on when he gets on one of those occasional tears...a healthy Duda can hit 30 HR in any given season by accident)...and with dingers on the rise, Duda's lone positive (along with being able to draw some walks) isn't such a big deal.  We know how clumsy he can be in the field, and we know he fares against good pitching and in big spots (he doesn't). 

I'm thinking he gets a deal similar to this season, tops...one year and $7.5 million or so.  I just can't see anyone committing to him for more than a year...I think he's going to be one of those guys who bounces around a lot from here on out...a guy who a team acquires to get by with when its first baseman goes down with an injury...or as a stopgap when some team has a big first base prospect who needs another year of seasoning before he's ready. 

Thank God the Mets never signed him to a long-term deal...easy to forget that such a thing was in the works:

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/100253/lucas-duda-mets-shelve-long-term-contract-talks

He would've crashed and burned hard with the Yankees...imagine how it would've gone for him if he was hitting .186 with 48 K in 43 GP there. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Starting to wonder if the Mets hate Harvey so much that they WANT to see him keep getting shelled.  The guy shouldn't throw another pitch in the majors this year.  

[NJDevs4978]

At best they should try Harvey in the pen the last two weeks, otherwise I can't make an argument to even tender him this offseason.

['7']

I think they will tender him in the hope that he can get stronger in the offseason and regain the velocity, but I wonder if this is just a way for them to see if he can figure things out and think his way through games rather than just dominate with his best stuff as he used to. So far he can't. And yes perhaps they also see this as a much needed serving of humble pie as well.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

46 minutes ago, '7' said:

I think they will tender him in the hope that he can get stronger in the offseason and regain the velocity, but I wonder if this is just a way for them to see if he can figure things out and think his way through games rather than just dominate with his best stuff as he used to. So far he can't. And yes perhaps they also see this as a much needed serving of humble pie as well.

It's funny, I do think to certain extent, this is a little payback for Harvey's diva crap.  And he really is a tough guy to embrace...even yesterday with his quotes, he just came off as so unlikable...basically sounded like "Well, you meanies are just going to keep picking on me anyway, so just keep doing that."  deGrom could teach him plenty about what it's like to have REAL balls.  Harvey has to be one of the phoniest Alpha Males in MLB.   

[NJDevs4978]

Apparently Rosario has gastroenteritis lol...the hits just keep on coming.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 11:42 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Duda sucks...the guy couldn't have been less clutch here, and he'd disappear for weeks at a time with the bat...outside of some random HR barrages here and there, a lot of times he was pretty worthless.  Also was a butcher in the field...a maddening player who was never as good as some of his offensive numbers or sabermetrics suggested...good riddance.  Also had to be moved to make room for Smith.  As a flawed major leaguer who's a FA-to-be, I wasn't expecting that much back for Duda...on that deal, I think Sandy made out OK.

As for the Reed deal...man, very disappointing, seems like it was all about blah quantity over actual quality, but let's face it, Passive Uncreative has been disappointing a LOT since he's been the Met GM.  I'm so tired of him getting a pass because the Mets got to a World Series that he seems to think was all because of him.  We've been through it, and yes, Sandy's made some good moves (and has been incredibly lucky that guys raised their value at the right time, and that some potentially disastrous moves that he considered making, like bringing in Carlos Gomez, fell through), but I'd say overall, he simply hasn't done a terribly good job.  We'll miss Reed...I understand that Sandy had to try to get something for him (though he did a lousy job of it), and I know that he wasn't as good as he was last season (when he was absurdly good), but Ramos is no Reed.  Ramos is a BB-machine...unfortunately he is going to do a lot of tight-rope walking and he is going to be a tough watch.  Reed had a 1.014 WHIP as a Met...Ramos will be around 1.30.  Not really as great of a pickup as people are making it out to be.   

The Mets really need someone with a much different vision and way of doing things now.  Sandy doesn't have the brains, energy nor the passion to see this thing through, and him sticking around will mean same ol-same ol:  the Village Idiot and Dan Worthless get to stay, positions that need improvement not being improved (hey, let's give d'Oh-No yet another fvcking year to underperform), obvious weaknesses being ignored...I know it won't happen, but Sandy needs to be kicked the fvck out of here. 

So far Ramos is doing about what I expected him to do...walking too many guys and in general not being consistent (though he's only blown one save so far as a Met), as guys with iffy control tend to be.  11 BB in 17.1 IP...and now all of a sudden, he's giving up a lot of hits.  He's been good in converting save opportunities in spite of himself since becoming a closer, but this is not a guy who inspires confidence...and he's not getting any younger (just turned 31 today). 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Montero's last four starts, including today:

19 IP, 23 H, 13 ER, 14 BB, 16 K, 1.95 WHIP

Pretty negates the tease stretch that he had before, as far as I'm concerned.  He just makes it IMPOSSIBLE for fans to start to warm up to him.  I know it's important to have some depth in your farm (especially if you're the Mets), but eventually, you just have to cut the damned cord when a guy can't ever seem to do enough with the opportunities he's been given.  Montero has had 183.2 IP at the major league level to show something, and it's just not happening with enough consistency...the guy is a baserunner factory (1.69 career WHIP).  This latest crap stretch is exactly the kind we've seen too many times in his brief career, and the guy will be 27 years old in less than a month.  Time to move on. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

More and more, it looks like TC is going to retire after this season (good) and Passive Uncreative will be the GM next season (not good).

The fact that he's talking about tendering Harvey tells me all I need to know about this offseason, and the immediate future of this team.  Sandy could actually act like there's the slightest level of accountability within this franchise and just tell Harvey to fvck off, better luck somewhere else, but nope, of course even after one and a half seasons of damned near nothing (and not showing the slightest signs that it will get better), Harvey gets another chance. 

If Harvey was two or three years younger, I might understand it...but he will be entering his age 29 season next year.  Sure, there's a slight chance that Harvey could improve...but there's a better chance that he's one of those guys who simply didn't have the physical ability to keep performing at the highest level, and doesn't have the scrappiness or intelligence to learn how to win with lesser stuff. 

For a GM who doesn't have much in the way of real aggression, next year is going to be all about "IF" scenarios, because it's just easier to do less and hope that it all doesn't go to sh!t again.  Always the path of least resistance (and lowest cost) with Sandy and the Mets.  God-fvcking-dammit. 

 

 

[NJDevs4978]

The irony is non-tendering Harvey would actually save them $6 million or whatever they could use to either get a real starting pitcher that isn't damaged goods who's a year from leaving regardless, or a real bullpen pitcher that isn't A.J.Ramos   

I don't really get what the point is of giving him a third year to bounce back other than the sunk cost fear, that since they didn't trade him for a king's ransom when they could have, they don't want him to walk before he's absolutely going to.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

25 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

The irony is non-tendering Harvey would actually save them $6 million or whatever they could use to either get a real starting pitcher that isn't damaged goods who's a year from leaving regardless, or a real bullpen pitcher that isn't A.J.Ramos   

I don't really get what the point is of giving him a third year to bounce back other than the sunk cost fear, that since they didn't trade him for a king's ransom when they could have, they don't want him to walk before he's absolutely going to.

This is what I don't like Has...it's like they're keeping him out of some fear that he might magically turn back into the Harvey of 2015...completely the wrong reason to do that.  If Passive is worried that he might endure some criticism (he has to know that he's already getting his fair share anyway, so what's the difference?), in this case, I think most fans would understand Harvey not being tendered:

1) He's completely stunk up the joint in 2016 and 2017, and seems like a guy whose body simply can't handle what it takes to pitch effectively long-term in the majors.

2) He's a diva and a serious PITA (though in his defense, it's not like the Mets inspire any confidence when it comes to how they handle their players).  You can even argue his presence around the Mets has become a bit toxic.  Even when he was pitching well, he often acted like an entitled d*ckhead.

3) He's a free agent to be...even if he did enjoy something of a bounceback year (which I define to be a decent year at best at this point), does anyone really think that Harvey will be a Met beyond 2018?  The Mets would be crazy to commit to him long term, especially since you'd feel a lot more comfortable giving bigger money to deGrom and Syndergaard (though it's still early to make the argument for those two as well). 

Passive has a real chance to start to change the dynamic of this team a bit, simply by non-tendering a guy who's always been a bit of a bitchy malcontent and who doesn't look like he'll ever be what he was...at the very least, you can send the message (FINALLY) that if you're not performing, you don't get to fvcking hang around here forever no matter what.  That's been the biggest problem since Sandy's been here, and it's time for that to change. 

His numbers are scary-hideous BTW, from the start of 2016:  34 starts (basically a season's worth), 177.1 IP, 210 H, 112 ER, 26 HR, 67 BB, 138 K, 1.56 WHIP 5.68 ERA, 73 ERA+ (100 is average).  And the numbers are getting WORSE.

He really should be in the minors, but unfortunately those seasons have all ended.  I do think the fact that he keeps getting trotted out there has something to do with prior transgressions...I think even though the Mets are going to tender him (out of misguided fear), I don't think they like him much at all.  I think if this was someone else, they'd shut him down. 

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Devils Pride 26]

Any objections if they named Wright manager? 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, Devils Pride 26 said:

Any objections if they named Wright manager? 

No experience...I think just like a young prospect, assuming Wright is even interested in such a thing (he still wants to play), you let him work his way up through the system, and even have him on the coaching staff for a couple of years.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

d'Arnaud now suddenly showing signs of a pulse in pure garbage time as well:  5 HR and 13 RBI, 14-for-37 in his last 11 GP.  Probably has Sandy all excited, but we know what the drill will be next season:  Travis will be hitting somewhere around .200 in mid-May and will then wind up on the DL (assuming he even stays healthy for that long).  And will still be a lousy defensive catcher to boot.

Syndergaard to start tonight...however many Mets fans are in attendance should boo the sh!t out of him.  With the crap he pulled in refusing the take the MRI, he deserves it.  And that was awesome the way Sandy just completely chose not to even try to take control of the situation...why is this complacent overrated smug zilch getting to stick around? 

 

[NJDevs4978]

I wouldn't even go that far, but I loathe that Thor's coming back at less than 100% JUST to get in an inning.  I get the whole 'mental block' of coming back to pitch at the ML level but come on, he's already had to start and stop his rehab.  They're still coddling him.  Like you said it's organizational. Sandy/Jeff should tell Thor to go scratch, we're shutting you down the way they did Harvey during his TJS year but they refuse to do so.

re: Travis, in an odd way maybe they've stumbled onto some form of accountability without trying, given Plawecki hitting as well as he has, maybe that's the spur that got up Travis's ass and made him hit again.  The funny thing is Travis's BA and OBP is just as awful as it was last year, it's only his power that's thankfully returned.

Edited September 23, 2017 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Have to say I love what I see out of Aoki, not a young player but he has a lot of spring in his step. Toolsy. Great in the outfield. Scrappy pain in the butt at the plate. I wouldn't mind him here next year as a 5th outfielder. He's always hit at this level and he's always been able to get on base. Does not strike out much.

['7']

And just as I was about to say Harvey doesn't look like crap, Lind takes him deep over the wall in left for another juiced ball joke HR

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 8:35 PM, '7' said:

And just as I was about to say Harvey doesn't look like crap, Lind takes him deep over the wall in left for another juiced ball joke HR

fvck Harvey. 

deGrom does the unthinkable...actually goes over 200 IP.  He did run a little hot and cold, but there's three outings that really blew up his ERA (on 5/31, 6/6, and 9/5...a combined 21 ER in 11.2 IP)...take those three games out, and his ERA for the season is 2.75.  Look, of course all of the games count, but he wasn't a guy who was consistently giving up 3-4 ER (as an ERA of 3.53 might lead one to believe)...he allowed 2 ER or less in 18 out of 31 starts (Mets went 13-5 in those games).  One of those seasons that depending on how one chooses to look at it, he was probably a little better than his numbers show (and of course, it's not like the Mets' putrid D ever helped him out much).

['7']

13 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

fvck Harvey. 

deGrom does the unthinkable...actually goes over 200 IP.  He did run a little hot and cold, but there's three outings that really blew up his ERA (on 5/31, 6/6, and 9/5...a combined 21 ER in 11.2 IP)...take those three games out, and his ERA for the season is 2.75.  Look, of course all of the games count, but he wasn't a guy who was consistently giving up 3-4 ER (as an ERA of 3.53 might lead one to believe)...he allowed 2 ER or less in 18 out of 31 starts (Mets went 13-5 in those games).  One of those seasons that depending on how one chooses to look at it, he was probably a little better than his numbers show (and of course, it's not like the Mets' putrid D ever helped him out much).

This year was a great deGrom season for me. He did all he could propping up this pathetic corpse and deserves to be commended for it. I think his numbers need to be adjusted anyway in respect to the ridiculous juiced balls.

I really like what I've seen out of Nimmo. Granted I have been wavering on this team...just hard to keep up when they're so bad, but whenever I watch Nimmo he seems to do something good. Bit of power, gives you a good AB. Good fielder. Still doesn't strike me as a full time starter but he is absolutely a major leaguer. It would help if he learned to play some infield positions over the summer. The guy has a real good feel and understanding of the strike. He's going to get on base at a pretty good clip the rest of his career.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 hours ago, '7' said:

This year was a great deGrom season for me. He did all he could propping up this pathetic corpse and deserves to be commended for it. I think his numbers need to be adjusted anyway in respect to the ridiculous juiced balls.

I really like what I've seen out of Nimmo. Granted I have been wavering on this team...just hard to keep up when they're so bad, but whenever I watch Nimmo he seems to do something good. Bit of power, gives you a good AB. Good fielder. Still doesn't strike me as a full time starter but he is absolutely a major leaguer. It would help if he learned to play some infield positions over the summer. The guy has a real good feel and understanding of the strike. He's going to get on base at a pretty good clip the rest of his career.

deGrom was definitely a rare bright spot in a very dark season.  What's interesting is how much his home and road numbers evened out:  3.34 ERA at home, 3.70 ERA on the road.  There were guys who pitched plenty well with dingers being hit out all over the place, so I won't adjust deGrom's numbers...but as we know, he's a real competitor and a guy who will ALWAYS give you whatever he's got.  And can find ways to get it done more often than not.  I don't have anything bad to say about him, really.

Yeah I haven't been watching much lately either (I see losers like Reyes and d'Arnaud fattening up in these meaningless games and I find it more irritating than anything else...because as soon as there's actual pressure you just KNOW those guys will go right back to be infuriatingly unclutch and lousy). 

Nimmo is intriguing...for one, he has a chance to get a lot of playing time in 2018...who knows WHO is going to be in the Met outfield next season?  I think 2017 Cespedes is what we get from now on from him...he was smart in that he was on his best behavior until he signed his big deal, and now he's going to be a big fat cat diva who will have his good moments and stretches, play about 100 games, be lackadaisical and not be much of a hustler, and not try to play though any pain.  Not the idea guy to hook your train to, but we're stuck with him.  Lagares will get every chance to play everyday (especially now that his bigger money is kicking in), but he can't hit enough and never will.  Who knows what Conforto's future is?

I agree, Nimmo is probably best suited to be a 4th outfielder-type who gets 300 ABs or so and can fill in for 2-3 weeks if someone gets hurt, but here I think he'll be asked to do much more than that, especially in 2018.  Yeah, I like that he can get on base and could be a nice sparkplug guy, but he's been striking out a LOT lately...16 straight games with at least one K, and 23 Ks overall in those 16 games...that has me a little concerned, because I don't think Nimmo was supposed to be a high-K guy...makes me wonder if the league is starting to catch onto him a bit.  Would also like to see some a lot less whiffing around here, for once. 

Dom Smith is really in a bad slump right now:  3-for-his-last-29 with 14 K in his last 9 GP.  Not that it means much either way, but I'd like to see him pull out of it before the season ends...kind of sucks going out on such a bad note, especially since he's had some nice bursts since coming up.   

['7']

It is being reported that Collins is out once this season concludes. Mets will not pick up his option. Supposedly they may allow him to save face by saying he is retiring.
 

Among the candidates to replace him. Robin Ventura, Bob Geren, Alex Cora, Kevin Long, Chips Hale.

So absolutely nobody worth a damn. Alex Cora was always looked at as a good future manager but he's never managed a game in his life and I don't want another learner on the job. No Willie Randolph repeats please.

I guess from that list I'd pick Geren. But it's a very underwhelming shortlist. I would love to see them show some interest in Ron Gardenhire.

http://nypost.com/2017/09/26/odds-are-high-mets-next-terry-collins-will-be-a-familiar-face/

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by '7'