Rock Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Nov. 3, 2004. 01:00 AM Players' venom aimed directly at Bettman `There's a madman leading the owners' Union stands strong at Toronto meeting http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...l=1044442957278 KEN CAMPBELL SPORTS REPORTER Seventy players, Pierre Dagenais included, emerged from yesterday's NHL Players' Association meeting walking figuratively in lockstep and, instead of sniping at one another, turned their venom directly at Gary Bettman. Nothing of substance was discussed in terms of a new or different proposal from the players aimed at ending the lockout that will reach its 50th day tomorrow, but the players left the 4 1/2-hour meeting claiming they are more unified than ever and view the true enemy as the NHL commissioner. "I think there's a lot of great owners out there," Flyers goalie Robert Esche said, "but there's a madman leading them down the wrong path and unfortunately we have no control over what is going on right now." Leafs winger Darcy Tucker, who is working out with the men's hockey team at U of T, also took aim at Bettman. And he had harsh words for the owners Bettman represents. "Until (Bettman) wants to negotiate in good faith with the players, nothing is going to happen, there's going to be no season and it will be because of him," said Tucker, who was standing in for Leafs player representative Bryan McCabe. "We don't have a negotiating partner who wants to talk to us. The last proposal was made by us and we're not going to stick our necks out any more until the league makes a decision on what they want to do. Gary has to make a decision now." With the prospect of the NHL being the first major professional league to ever cancel an entire season, Tucker said the players are willing to endure that. "We've all played the game, but the people on the other side of the table, not too many of them have played the game, so they don't know what that feels like," Tucker said. "They're businessmen and they're trying to stick it to the people who play this game. What we go through, as players, fighting for them on a daily basis, I don't think they can grasp it." And help is on the way for players feeling the financial pinch of the lockout. Trevor Linden, president of the players' executive committee, confirmed yesterday that the union will dish out cheques in the near future. "The executive committee is looking at that now," the Canucks centre said. "We've got a plan for that and it's going to be unveiled in the next few weeks." One of the main themes of the players' message was the frustration they say they feel over the league's unwillingness to negotiate. The NHL has insisted it is ready to negotiate any time, but has no interest in talking if the NHLPA doesn't come up with a stronger proposal. The union, meanwhile, argues that its proposal of more than a year ago gave the owners $200 million (U.S.) in concessions, including a 5 per cent pay cut across the board, a luxury tax and limits on rookie salaries. "What they're talking about, there's no such thing as negotiations," said association vice-president Bill Guerin. "Salary caps are not negotiated. They are obtained by breaking unions and they pound it into you. If they want to negotiate, we'll sit down and negotiate. "There's no sign of negotiation because Gary doesn't want to sit down and talk about a fair deal. He wants to pound a salary cap down our throats and that's not going to happen." Association executive director Bob Goodenow was far more conciliatory than most of the players, but he did say that there will definitely not be another proposal forthcoming from the players. "Let me be clear on that. We've made proposals and we've said to the league, `We're willing to negotiate on any and all of these issues,'" Goodenow said. "We're very much interested in trying to have a negotiation and having something that will work for both sides." Goodenow also took umbrage with the notion, fuelled largely be recent comments by a small number of members, that the association looks out only for its high-end earners. He reiterated Chris Pronger's comments from Monday suggesting the association is so strongly opposed to a salary cap because that kind of system discriminates against the non-star players. "There has been a lot of suggestion by people in the media, erroneous I might say, that the association only cares about the top guys," Goodenow said. "That is so far off the mark, it's ridiculous. "In any system, the top players always do very, very well. For the past 14 years, this association has been focused on the rank-and-file, the third-line and the fourth-line guys. "The top guys, you don't have to worry about them, they're always going to be in a position where they do very well. Everyone in the meeting understands how caps work and the victims in cap systems are those very players who get squeezed out." After being invited by Vincent Damphousse, Dagenais attended the meeting and gained a healthy amount of respect from the other players. The Canadiens forward was recently critical of the association, saying that players such as himself would probably accept a cap and that the association is run by players who can afford to miss pay cheques. All was well following the meeting, however, with the players presenting a cohesive front. "I would say this association is even more unified now than we were before," Pronger said. 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Ice Man Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Good for them. Stand their ground. Owners will break. Bettman will be gone. The NHL will never regain it's fan base. NHL hockey was dying and and this action will cut another wound into the NHL. Bettman is out of control. Owners brought this on by themselves. Canada should break away from NHL and create their own league let the USA owners bleed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzer Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 What we go through, as players, fighting for them on a daily basis, I don't think they can grasp it. And what the players don't seem to grasp is what it's like for a fan to have to pay $250 to take his family to a game. If Darcy Tucker wants to keep making the money he thinks he deserves and wants the league to remain in existence, maybe he should start thinking about who's buying the tickets. The demand just isn't there. Wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 why is life so filled with smoke and mirrors? well I guess because life is too easy. NHL isn't a big deal in the scheme of things. It's a shame the people who have been put out of work and the small businesses that will fold -- but the hockey market is a tenuous one anyhow -- business flop every day - such is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 these players have no IDEA what they're in for. They just don't get it. Billionares can outlast you. They will NEVER under any circumstances see the salaries they have now (with their proposals or the owners). At this point, they should be looking to find out how they can keep as much of their money as possible. Do they realize that if they lose a season, that a year of their contracts are GONE with no pay. Even with a deal, you're not getting that money back. It's not like the pay for '04-'05 just gets pushed to '05-'06. THAT MONEY IS GONE. In the end, Goodenow will be axed because there's gonna be a cap and the players will have forfeited much more money than they had to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Ice Man, why would the players do that? The problem is the players are treating this like this is a conventional strike where what is being provided is something necessary. But this is just entertainment. The money owners lose by this lockout, the players will lose. The salaries can go down if the owners are committed to it. The one process that stops that is salary arbitration. And sundstrom, I think players like Kolnik, Dagenais, Ference, and Commodore realize that this was their one shot at the big-time, but that because of Guerin and Linden and Goodenow's utter contempt for ownership and unwillingness to be seen as weak (even though a player seems to come out every day to say something to the media), they refuse to offer a new proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Good for them. Stand their ground. Owners will break. Bettman will be gone.The NHL will never regain it's fan base. NHL hockey was dying and and this action will cut another wound into the NHL. Bettman is out of control. Owners brought this on by themselves. Canada should break away from NHL and create their own league let the USA owners bleed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The players will do as they're told, punks will get back in line. The owners made a lil of the mess, but Gary will fix it. THe union will break. More players will speak out shortly, again. We wont have hockey this year, but the new "league (incl new CBA) will bring em back. And BTW Mr. Pronger will play for 5 mil lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hattrick Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Nov. 3, 2004. 01:00 AM Players' venom aimed directly at Bettman `There's a madman leading the owners' There's a madman leading the players and a madman leading the owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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