NOW Arafat is dead

[undaimee]

I think poor Undaimee just flew into a hornets nest.

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sharon's the real road blocking person

the palestinian PM was tryin to have talks with him earlier this yr, but Mr. Sharon just wouldnt listen.

stupid fat man...

[undaimee]

Arafat killed Israeli men women and children. For every Israeli killed in the last 3 months, about 40 Palestinians have died in retaliatory attacks.

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Israel is a democracy, the Arabs can't stand that.

It's simple, 'Palestine' stops with the homicide bombings, and Israel would not retaliate.

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retards...retards...retards...

why isnt there democracy in mid eastern arab countries? I lived in kuwait for 6 yrs, and as long as the king is a peoples king, and listens to the people, people are cool with it. arabs accept their monarchy gov't and think that theres no need for change if there are no problems with this current gov't.

Palestine dosnt really have a gov't...how can u say palestinians hate democracy? They elect Prime Ministers retard, even though they might not be so popular. Overall, they just preer a strong central leader forever, rather than a new leader every two years. this dosnt mean they hate democracy.

dont claim that things are facts if u dont know they are

[Jimmy Leeds]

Yassir Arafat was one of my heros

some of you dont know what hes been through....

He will rest in peace

one more thing: FREE PALESTINE

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Bin Laden another "hero" of yours?

I hope Arafart rots in peace. Terrorist murderer.

[undaimee]

Bin Laden another "hero" of yours?

I hope Arafart rots in peace.  Terrorist murderer.

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no, Bin aint my hero, and dont u dare compare the two

ARAFAT DONATED BLOOD FOR 9-11 VICTIMS!!

y dont u look at what israel has done, why r u only looking at what palestine has done?

Jews were under islamic rule TWICE in history, and both of those times, Muslims had given them ALL rights.

Look at Israel now...forcing those poor arabs to live in one place, the muslims NEVER did that in history to the jews. The israelis were the ones who started the conflict by forcing the palestinians to move into the gaza strip. THEY WERE ESCORTED OUT OF THEIR HOMES after WWII, even though palestine had welcomed the jews during WWII. Thats not how one shuld thank them...palestinians got pissed, the conflict began.

BELIEVE ME, NEVER EVER COMPARE AAFAT AND OBL.

sharon is the one who dosnt deserve to live

LONG LIVE PLO

[NJDevs4978]

Why do we even bother pinning something about no political sigs allowed if nobody's going to read it?

[Jimmy Leeds]

Oh boy.

[undaimee]

ur speechless, arnt u?

[Jimmy Leeds]

"He looks like Mr. Roper with an Italian restraunt table cloth on his head." Dennis Miller

[undaimee]

"He looks like Mr. Roper with an Italian restraunt table cloth on his head." Dennis Miller

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okay, that is definitly the most retarted thing i have ever heard...

whats next? "I know you are, but what am I"

[Sarge18]

Bin Laden another "hero" of yours?

I hope Arafart rots in peace.

[squishyx]

undaimee, a person who lead a movement to murder innocent people is a hero of yours? you have bad taste. its sickining really but whatever, everyone is entitled to there opinion.

and the ratio is NOT 40 to 1. from the estimates i heard its about 4 to 1. still a staggering ratio. the difference? Isreal targets terrorists, and Palestinians target innocent civillians. go ahead and try to justify that.

[bruins4777]

I'm just cycling through these pages, looks like i missed a lot in a day. meh I got some good sleep. Anyways, i'll get to madd dog later.

this is up to page 4.

People listen to this unadaimee person. Although i don't quite look at araft as a hero, i don't know this issue as well as some, but from what i've heard i support the palestinians from all the oppressoin they recieve. I admit they are both acting irrationally, but you have to stop looking at one side.

I tried to get that through with the one post about always looking at both sides before making a judgement, but i guess no one listens cause i'm tend to be left leaning...o well I do look at both sides and to me it just tends to be the side that is covered up is the one that is more oppressed and is the one that should supported more. Just personal experience. Something i've found after reading "a people's history of the U.S." i'm sure jimmy will condem it as a bible to hate america if he's heard of it. However it is quite the contrary, too bad some people like jimmy can't realize why some people complain about what is happening in the U.S. if its from the left.

Edited November 12, 2004 by bruins4777

[bruins4777]

undaimee, a person who lead a movement to murder innocent people is a hero of yours? you have bad taste. its sickining really but whatever, everyone is entitled to there opinion.

and the ratio is NOT 40 to 1. from the estimates i heard its about 4 to 1. still a staggering ratio. the difference? Isreal targets terrorists, and Palestinians target innocent civillians. go ahead and try to justify that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was that arafat's true goal? If you REALLY think that it shows how truly one sided you are. There is a reason its called the Palestinian LIBERATION organization.

He wants to free the palestinians and give them a free state, its not that they hate "democracy" as jimmy so naively says. They are mad at the isralies for unfair treatment and want their own FAIR state. What kind of state is 2 areas with one inbetween that you have to fear your life everytime u step foot in there? Although the palestinians are not acting rationally at times, they are far from the only ones comitting killings. 4 to 1 or 40 to 1 is still unfair treatment regardless.

Do you think isreal realy "targets" terrorists. Sure they go after them, but how do thsoe FEW terrorists represent all the palestinians and arafat? They simply represent the terrorists. And how did these terrorists become terrorists? Simple anger from being oppressed and seeing their own people locked up and given no freedom or quarter that is why these terrorists seem rampant. If Isreal really started to TRY and work with the PLO again as they did before, when it seemed they would achieve peace, things would be better now. Unfortunantley these two sides arent working together and it doesn't help that the most power ful nations in the world aren't supporting them and treating every one of their people as terrorists.

[Sarge18]

Bruins last time both sides worked together for peace, the isrealis were willing to give 97% of the land that Arafat wanted. Arafat then instead of taking that as a starting point, attempted to get even more from them. These negotiations have certainly been one sided in regards as to who is being asked to make the sacrifices and try to work to make peace, and that is the the fundamental problem. There has been very little compromise from both sides, but especially from the PLO.

[bruins4777]

Madd dog, my bad. I've only seen ur posts on terrorism and gun rights and such. I forget what you actually said, i think it was something in one of my marxism topics? I forget what you said but i remeber it being fairly right.

Anyways i guess by the typical definition of independent you are. I guess it just i feel an independent doesn't take a stand on the issue. So i guess you ARE an independent. I wasn't trying to dispute you have lefty views, i was just wondering what you were left on since i never saw them. Anyways, my definition on indepdent in politics is a person who doesn't take a stand on any issues, who realizes both sides are wrong and for some reason or another, lack of caring, hates both, or whatever doesn't take a side on an issue. I've talked to people like this who when speaking with them simply go "both suck", but despite saying that they know both sides very well. Its just a personal definition, but ok i'll believe your independent.

[Jimmy Leeds]

Bruins last time both sides worked together for peace, the isrealis were willing to give 97% of the land that Arafat wanted.  Arafat then instead of taking that as a starting point, attempted to get even more from them.  These negotiations have certainly been one sided in regards as to who is being asked to make the sacrifices and try to work to make peace, and that is the the fundamental problem.  There has been very little compromise from both sides, but especially from the PLO.

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To Clinton's credit he worked hard on this.

Hopefully their new "leader" won't be a murderer like Arafart and GW can help broker something. Sharon is a hard liner, he's gotta give to receive too.

[bruins4777]

Bruins last time both sides worked together for peace, the isrealis were willing to give 97% of the land that Arafat wanted.  Arafat then instead of taking that as a starting point, attempted to get even more from them.  These negotiations have certainly been one sided in regards as to who is being asked to make the sacrifices and try to work to make peace, and that is the the fundamental problem.  There has been very little compromise from both sides, but especially from the PLO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well lets think, can you REALLY blame the PLO when their people are being oppressed, given no freedom, being separated from their families by an enourmous strip of land, being called terrorists at every turn by westerners, and such?

I realize the PLO has faults, despite saying i side with them i'm not "full" on PLO's side, i realize they need to wake up, but we have to reconize that the reason these people are so angry are not only the U.S's actions, but other countries actions and the gesutres and stances of the isralies.

Also if i'm not mistaken wasn't it Sharon who came in around the time of the peace talks and decided to COMPLETELY shut out arafat? Wasn't it sharon who decided to move the border back by forcing more troops to go and pressure the gazza strip and west bank? Wasn't it sharon who constantly has tried to drive back and out the Palestinians?

[bruins4777]

undaimee, a person who lead a movement to murder innocent people is a hero of yours? you have bad taste. its sickining really but whatever, everyone is entitled to there opinion.

and the ratio is NOT 40 to 1. from the estimates i heard its about 4 to 1. still a staggering ratio. the difference? Isreal targets terrorists, and Palestinians target innocent civillians. go ahead and try to justify that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just something i thought off, the murdering of innocent people. Everytime there's a war an innocent person dies. So you could say every president ever who's been in a war has led a "movement" to murder innocent people.

Innocent people dying is a GIVEN in war, there is no avoiding that and no denying that.

[Sarge18]

Im not going to debate that Sharon will fall into the extreme side of the Israeli's. But as i said earlier, both sides in the past have had moderates try to have people come together in peace. Yet they are continually drowned out by the voices of the extemeists on boths sides, not just the Israelis.

It also seems to me that most outside observers havent spent the time to at least get a basic understanding of the whole conflict. Most people focus on the recent. While im no expert on the matter i feel that ive had some decent exposure to some of the earlier roots of this matter. And the events that took place then, the violence against the Jews, and many of the causes of this hatred stemmed from the attacks of the Muslims of the area. THey arent exactly the innocents many sympathsizers many try to make them be.

[Sarge18]

Just something i thought off, the murdering of innocent people. Everytime there's a war an innocent person dies. So you could say every president ever who's been in a war has led a "movement" to murder innocent people.

Innocent people dying is a GIVEN in war, there is no avoiding that and no denying that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a huge difference between innocents dying as a matter of collateral damage in attacks against tactical targets (ie a munitions factory or an urban command post) then the deliberate attacking of civilians( ie busses or movie theaters or cafes). While i agree that in war innocent people will unfortunately die, the premeditated attacking of civilians is totally different. It is an attack on the spirit of the people, and history has shown us that such a tactic is a failure. The blitz of london in WW2 is a great example of how it effects the people of a nation.

[Jimmy Leeds]

Well lets think, can you REALLY blame the PLO when their people are being oppressed, given no freedom, being separated from their families by an enourmous strip of land, being called terrorists at every turn by westerners, and such?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enormous?

Middle East Map

Edited November 12, 2004 by Jimmy Leeds

[Swede]

I had forgotten how pro-israel the USA is. Some of you guys don't seem to se the complexity of the Israel-Palstine issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be fair, Swede, I could say that Europe is extremely pro-PALESTINIAN. To be honest, they DO seem to be, and there seems to also be more anti-Semitism in Europe than in the States. As for what I think, I'm frankly fed up with both sides at this point - Israeli AND Palestinian!

(I guess i'd have more sympathy for the Pals if they denounced terrorism and stopped engaging in child abuse.. you know, teaching their kids that BLOWING THEMSELVES up is all they should strive to be and conveying this message through music videos or TV ads! Plus they seem to not want Israel to have any claim to the Temple Mount, which is why that whole peace deal fell through with Arafat in the first place back in 2000 from what I read... he said ONLY Palestinians should have the temple and Israel won't buy that idea).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. Europe seems more pro palestinian... but I don't think (at leastI hope not) it is because of antisemitism.

To me neither side is doing anything to improve the situation and since the israelis have taken the US retoric (terrorists and that they are against freedom) it has gotten even worse.

I hope that when a new palestine leader emerges there can be more discussions between the two sides. Lets face it, the endless suicide bombings and tretaliations will not make the other side give over.

[TK]

So you could say every president ever who's been in a war has led a "movement" to murder innocent people.

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Where do you come up with this stuff?

[Derek21]

I listened to some of the chaos this morning on Imus .

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.ad...110044809990035

Arafat Buried in West Bank Amid Chaotic Scene

Tens of Thousands Mob His Casket; Leaders Honor Palestinian Icon at Funeral in Egypt

By MOHAMMED DARAGHMEH, AP

RAMALLAH, West Bank (Nov. 12) -- Yasser Arafat was laid to rest in a marble-and-stone grave Friday after his flag-draped coffin was borne through a sea of emotional Palestinians who swarmed the helicopter that brought him from a state funeral in Egypt.

Police fired wildly into the air to keep back the surging crowd at the West Bank compound known as the Muqata, where Arafat spent his last years as a virtual prisoner.

After Arafat's body was lowered into the ground, Muslim clerics read Koranic verses and the late leader's bodyguards wept and embraced each other.

Frantic mourners surged toward the tomb, trampling the olive tree saplings that were planted around the grave according to Islamic tradition. One policeman knelt on the marble and kissed the tombstone.

Earlier, officials tried for 25 minutes to open the helicopter door to remove the coffin onto a jeep that had plowed through the crowd to clear a path.

As the coffin was carried toward the gravesite, police jumped on top of it, waved their arms and flashed the victory sign. People chanted, ''With our blood and our soul we will redeem you Yasser Arafat!''

Stretchers carried away two people who were trampled in the melee.

Mahmoud Abbas, the new head of the PLO, and Omar Suleiman, Egypt's director of intelligence, tried to emerge from the helicopter but were kept back by the huge, chaotic crowd.

''President Arafat would have wanted it this way, with exhilaration, feelings of loyalty, pain, sadness and love all at once,'' Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi told The Associated Press. ''The people reclaimed him. They wanted to say goodbye without distance.''

Under the crush of screaming mourners, plans were hastily scrapped for a stately ceremony with Palestinian officials filing past his coffin.

''It is not what we expected,'' said Palestinian Cabinet minister Saeb Erekat, who traveled in the Egyptian military helicopter with Arafat's coffin. ''At the same time, we had to do the burial before sunset in Islamic tradition. ... I expected much better, more organized, but things got out of hand, unfortunately.''

The red, white, green and black flag was ripped off the casket as it was carried through the crowd.

The failure of police to control the pandemonium augured poorly for Palestinian hopes to maintain calm and order in the wake of Arafat's death.

Hours earlier, mourners had burst through gates of the Muqata and climbed over the walls of the compound, thwarting attempts by armed police to hold them back. Police scrambled to keep them off the landing pad.

As Arafat's helicopter touched down, the crowd cried out ''Welcome, welcome Abu Ammar!'' using his nom de guerre. ''Welcome, welcome old man!''

Buildings and windshields in the West Bank and Gaza were plastered with Arafat's photo and people waved black and white scarves, the colors of his Fatah movement.

In Gaza City, hundreds gathered on rooftops, streets and apartment balconies in hopes of catching a glimpse of Arafat's helicopter. Barred from attending the burial, tens of thousands of Gaza residents held rallies and symbolic funerals across the strip.

A small group of masked gunmen marched into the Muqata, ignoring calls from official Palestine TV not to carry arms or mask faces, as is common in Palestinian funerals during times of crisis. However, the gunmen calmly submitted to inspection by plainclothes security personnel who ensured there were no bullets in the chambers.

The cooperation between militants and policemen was a likely reflection of Palestinians' desire for consensus in the wake of Arafat's death.

The 75-year-old Arafat, who led the Palestinians for four decades, died Thursday at a Paris hospital from an undisclosed illness that had plunged him into a weeklong coma. He had spent his final three years confined to his headquarters, never leaving out of fear the Israelis wouldn't allow him back in.

On Friday, teenage boys climbed onto the walls of the compound chanting, ''Whoever poisoned Arafat, we will drink his blood.'' Others cried out, ''Allahu akbar,'' Arabic for ''God is great,'' and ''We want to see Abu Ammar.''

Top Arafat aide Tayeb Abdel Rahim emerged from the compound and asked the crowd to stop chanting.

''The whole world is watching us now on television and we have to reflect our real picture,'' he said.

In Jerusalem, hundreds of Palestinian youths scuffled with Israeli police outside the al-Aqsa mosque - the third-holiest site in Islam - after police barred them from prayers amid fear of riots and unrest during Arafat's funeral.

Israeli police, ordered to stay on the sidelines of the burial, were on their highest state of alert and canceled all leaves, worried that the prayers for the last Friday of the holy month of Ramadan, together with mourning for Arafat, would get out of control.

Egypt gave Arafat a state funeral in Cairo, even though he never realized his dream of Palestinian statehood.

The service began amid heavy security with humble prayers at a mosque in a military compound and ended with a procession, his flag-draped wooden casket set on a horse-drawn gun carriage and followed by a crowd of presidents and kings.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah as well as Abbas and Farouk Kaddoumi, the newly chosen leader of the Fatah organization, were among the dignitaries who marched behind the casket on a residential street a short distance toward a military airfield. Doors and shutters of homes along the route were closed, and the street was cut off to the public.

Arafat's veiled widow, Suha, and their rarely seen 9-year-old daughter, Zahwa, wept as the Palestinian and Egyptian national anthems were played by a band before the casket was loaded aboard an Egyptian military plane. The jet flew to el-Arish, in Egypt's northeastern Sinai Peninsula, where the casket was transferred to the helicopter.

Among the dignitaries who attended the Cairo ceremony were Syrian President Bashar Assad, Sultan Hasanal Bolkiah of Brunei, South African President Thabo Mbeki, European Union Foreign Policy chief Javier Solana and Pope Shenouda III, head of Egypt's Coptic Orthodox Church.

The United States, which had labeled Arafat an obstacle to peace, sent Assistant Secretary of State William Burns. Israel sent no delegation.

''Yasser Arafat was more important for Palestinian identity than their flag and their national anthem,'' said Terje Roed-Larsen, U.N. envoy for the Middle East and a key player in the talks that led to the 1993 Oslo peace accord, in an interview with the AP at the funeral service.

He said he hoped the new Palestinian leadership would return to peace negotiations with Israel.

Before the chaotic scenes at the Muqata, workers raked sand to level the ground as they laid gray marble slabs around the base of tomb. The Palestinians consider the gravesite temporary - a place for Arafat's body until they can honor his request to be buried in Jerusalem.

11-12-04 0949 EST

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

[bruins4777]

So you could say every president ever who's been in a war has led a "movement" to murder innocent people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do you come up with this stuff?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cause it makes sense, just think over it and get passed ur biased mindset.