Triumph Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) The importance of a good 4th line isn't big if you have 3 very good lines, but I don't see the Devils having that. There re a ton of question marks. How many goals do you think a Madden - Zubrus - Clarkson line puts up? I really haven't seen anything from Elias and Rolston together to think they would put up anything big. What can we expect from Jamie next year? enough. it's a decent third line - madden's a bit of a weak spot, but other than that, things are fine. we can expect jamie langenbrunner's numbers to go down, but besides that, not an enormous drop. it's a solid 1st line. And a few of those lines served a purpose. They would hit anything in site or they were good for energy. This 4th line is the most useless group of leftovers you could have. And I agree the 4th line probably equally sucked in 2008, but that was part of the problem. it really wasn't. a 4th line does not really make the fortunes of a team. you can look around the league. and please don't tell me maltby and draper are good because they are not, not anymore. and you can always just sit your fourth line and not play them if they aren't any good, like sutter did earlier this year. Edited March 25, 2009 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneykoIsGod Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 They're both gone. Top priorities this offseason should be inking Zajac and Oduya. Then we need to find a 6th defenseman (Havelid is UFA and Greene is RFA), sign a backup goalie (Weekes is UFA) and replace Holik and Shanny. Rupp is UFA too, so we might need to throw a couple $100k his way as well. Throw in the uncertainty as to whether or not the cap will go down in a year, and you have a Gio- and Maddog-less Devils in '09-10. I'd like to see Bergfors get a real shot next season. Halischuk too, but maybe splitting time with someone like Pelley in case he isn't ready. From what little I've seen, Bergfors reminds me of Gionta a bit and I doubt Halischuk or Pelley would have trouble being at least as effective as Madden's been this season, locker room intangibles aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) enough. it's a decent third line - madden's a bit of a weak spot, but other than that, things are fine. we can expect jamie langenbrunner's numbers to go down, but besides that, not an enormous drop. it's a solid 1st line.it really wasn't. a 4th line does not really make the fortunes of a team. you can look around the league. and please don't tell me maltby and draper are good because they are not, not anymore. and you can always just sit your fourth line and not play them if they aren't any good, like sutter did earlier this year. I don't think Draper and Maltby are good at all. And I agree the the 4th line isn't that important if you have 3 solid lines. I look at Philly and I see an ugly 4th line but it serves a purpose. The other 3 lines are pretty damn scary. It's when your second and 3rd lines aren't that great where it all becomes a problem. And that is the real problem. The third line isn't that decent when you look at other teams with forward depth around the league. I haven't seen much from Rolston at all this year to show me that your second line would be good either. Elias and Rolston just don't look that great together. As for finding a 6th defenseman mentioned in the post before me...do we all agree that Corrente will be that guy? Edited March 25, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Pride 26 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) I have been working on this for a while now. Gio's gone guys, there's just no money. Take a look. Player Cap hit Elias 6 Brodeur 5.2 Rolston 5 Martin 3.8 Zubrus 3.4 Parise 3.125 White 3 Salvador 2.9 Langenbrunner 2.8 Pandolfo 2.5 Clarkson 0.837 Mottau 0.762 Bergfors 0.818 Halischuk 0.75 Corrente .821 Eckford .984 Zajac 3 Oduya 3.5 Holik 1.75 Rupp 0.6 Madden 2.5 Total (before) $41.92M AFTER $55.14M Elias Zubrus Bergfors Parise Zajac Langs Rolston Madden Halischuk Clarkson Holik Rupp Pandolfo Martin Oduya Salvador White Corrente/Eckford Mottau Brodeur .500k backup Edited March 25, 2009 by Devils Pride 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) I don't think Draper and Maltby are good at all. And I agree the the 4th line isn't that important if you have 3 solid lines. I look at Philly and I see an ugly 4th line but it serves a purpose. The other 3 lines are pretty damn scary. It's when your second and 3rd lines aren't that great where it all becomes a problem. And that is the real problem. The third line isn't that decent when you look at other teams with forward depth around the league. I haven't seen much from Rolston at all this year to show me that your second line would be good either. Elias and Rolston just don't look that great together.As for finding a 6th defenseman mentioned in the post before me...do we all agree that Corrente will be that guy? those teams aren't going to be able to keep their teams together either. that's the delusion - you're comparing other teams now to how new jersey will look in a year, but there's not really a playoff team in the east that is going to get stronger this off-season unless they get guys to sign huge discount deals. philadelphia is the team most fvcked, they're already over the cap for next year and they haven't signed anyone. so sure they are scary, but next year they're missing either gagne, hartnell, or lupul, along with knuble for sure, and possibly more, so what's their outlook? Edited March 25, 2009 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Pride 26 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 That's assuming that we, for some godforsaken reason, re-sign Bobby Holik, and we re-sign MadDog at 2.5/year, and we don't move Pandolfo.. all of which I believe *will* happen. We need at least one of Holik and Madden so at most we are saving 2.5m. 2-3 years from now we are better off without a Gionta contract anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prucenterrules Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I want Gio back but for way less money. Madden needs to start playing like the Madden we all know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkoreankid23 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I would really love to see Gio stay. Especially since I bought his jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) those teams aren't going to be able to keep their teams together either. that's the delusion - you're comparing other teams now to how new jersey will look in a year, but there's not really a playoff team in the east that is going to get stronger this off-season unless they get guys to sign huge discount deals. philadelphia is the team most fvcked, they're already over the cap for next year and they haven't signed anyone. so sure they are scary, but next year they're missing either gagne, hartnell, or lupul, along with knuble for sure, and possibly more, so what's their outlook? I did forget that the Flyers were in some cap trouble, but I don't think it has to be the end of the world for that team. They fvcked up by giving Briere an awful contract when they really didn't need to. Maybe they didn't realize how good the players they drafted were going to be. What they do have is Richards and Carter locked up at a great price. They have Claude Giroux who is going to be a star in this league for under a million for two years. They will eventually have Van Riemsdyk to add to their forward crops. They have a couple of other younger plays to add as well. I don't think it will be that bad for them. I just don't like the look of the Devils team next year. I don't know what you expect of Rolston. You have been a defender of Zubrus since day one. Maybe some young guys step in and do some damage, but I am very skeptical. Edited March 25, 2009 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I did forget that the Flyers were in some cap trouble, but I don't think it has to be the end of the world for that team. They fvcked by giving Briere an awful contract when they really didn't need to. Maybe they didn't realize how good the players they drafted were going to be. What they do have is Richards and Carter locked up at a great price. They have Claude Giroux who is going to be a star in this league for under a million for two years.They will eventually have Van Riemsdyk to add to their blue line. They have a couple of other younger plays to add as well. I don't think it will be that bad for them. I just don't like the look of the Devils team next year. I don't know what you expect of Rolston. You have been a defender of Zubrus since day one. Maybe some young guys step in and do some damage, but I am very skeptical. I know you're responding to Tri here, but I thought I'd chime in. Maybe I'm wrong to do this, but I'm giving Rolston a pass on this season. I think the high ankle sprain just screwed things up for him. Maybe he can get it going down the stretch, and hopefully into the playoffs. I can understand why fans are down on him, but for some reason I have this feeling in my gut that he has something left and is going to contribute. Tri loves Zubrus (or at least comes off like he does). I think he overstates how good he is at times (I can't get on board with the "poor man's Jagr" analogy), but only slightly. I think other fans have made him out to be much worse overall than he's been, but the 4-goal Tampa effort is making this year look a little better cosmetically than it's been in reality. I know what Tri's saying about Zubrus taking over games, though in limited quantity. I saw him dominate Tampa last season (a 2-1 Devils OT win)...that's why he can be frustrating at times...you just wish he'd do it more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I did forget that the Flyers were in some cap trouble, but I don't think it has to be the end of the world for that team. They fvcked up by giving Briere an awful contract when they really didn't need to. Maybe they didn't realize how good the players they drafted were going to be. What they do have is Richards and Carter locked up at a great price. They have Claude Giroux who is going to be a star in this league for under a million for two years. and what about nicklas bergfors? bergfors is 9 months older and is also having an excellent season in the ahl. i understand that giroux is quite a player, but bergfors is no slouch. he figures to be a decent point per half game player next season if he gets the right ice time. They will eventually have Van Riemsdyk to add to their blue line. They have a couple of other younger plays to add as well. I don't think it will be that bad for them. van riemsdyk is also a forward. philadelphia does have a solid group of young players going forward - there's no doubt about that - but they've got a lot of rotten contracts on that team that will seize it up both next year and the year after. I just don't like the look of the Devils team next year. I don't know what you expect of Rolston. You have been a defender of Zubrus since day one. Maybe some young guys step in and do some damage, but I am very skeptical. i expect rolston to hit something like 25-25-50. i expect him to average around 3 shots per game, so that's right around his career shooting percentage to hit 25 goals. zubrus is zubrus - a 2nd/3rd line center who has his ups and downs but is a solid contributor. if the devils let go of oduya and don't pick up a replacement, they can afford a center. next season will be interesting - you will just not see a lot of long-term deals on playoff teams, they can't afford to give them out. philadelphia is full - they already owe 43 million to 11 players in 2010-11. in short, no, the devils probably won't be as good next season. that's how it happens in the cap era unless you are detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 He's 21 and offensively head and shoulders above everyone else on the AHL team right now and putting up a point every ~.8 games. No rookie is ever a sure thing but I don't know why people, not you in the prior post, still talk about Bergfors as a bust when he's having a really good season. It's still a bit too early to talk of him as a bust. Generally, Swedish (and other European) players take a year or two more than Canadian/American players until they're ready to play in the NHL. I think Bergfors went over too early, he'd been better off honing his skills in the SHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 and what about nicklas bergfors? bergfors is 9 months older and is also having an excellent season in the ahl. i understand that giroux is quite a player, but bergfors is no slouch. he figures to be a decent point per half game player next season if he gets the right ice time.van riemsdyk is also a forward. philadelphia does have a solid group of young players going forward - there's no doubt about that - but they've got a lot of rotten contracts on that team that will seize it up both next year and the year after. i expect rolston to hit something like 25-25-50. i expect him to average around 3 shots per game, so that's right around his career shooting percentage to hit 25 goals. zubrus is zubrus - a 2nd/3rd line center who has his ups and downs but is a solid contributor. if the devils let go of oduya and don't pick up a replacement, they can afford a center. next season will be interesting - you will just not see a lot of long-term deals on playoff teams, they can't afford to give them out. philadelphia is full - they already owe 43 million to 11 players in 2010-11. in short, no, the devils probably won't be as good next season. that's how it happens in the cap era unless you are detroit. My bad on vanRiemsdyk. I have no idea why I thought he was a defenseman. That is one scary crop of forwards going forward. And yes the Flyers made some mistakes. They were not ready to rebuild and naturally let some young players grow without throwing around some big contracts. They overpaid Hartnell, Lupul and Briere. Bergfors certainly isn't a slouch, but if he becomes half the player Giroux is...I'll be ecstatic. Giroux was always known to be a ridiculous scorer in his junior career, but the knock might have been his defensive play. From what I have heard and now seen, he has become a really solid two player as a rookie and is already +10 in just 32 games. The kid scored 51 points in 19 playoff games in the 'Q' last year. I still have high hopes on Bergfors, and we need it because we aren't signing a big time free agent. I actually saw signs of a pretty good player in his brief time here. My beef with Zubrus is I want to see him take it hard to the net and use his size everytime he is out there. He is blessed with his size and he rarely uses it. He might have been a better as a Devil than Kozlov, but there are certainly similarities between the two. The dude would rather circle around the net than take it hard. I have been frustrated for two years watching him. As for Rolston, we'll also disagree until I see otherwise or you just never seen him reach that career shooting percentage again. I read the quotes Lou said about him when he signed him. He felt Rolston was a 35-year-old in a 30-year-old body. I certainly don't, and maybe that has to do with the high ankle sprain, but I definitely don't see a PP QB in him either. When you are worried in year 1, of a 4-year contract...that's never good. One thing about his goal count this year..is the amount of garbage goals he has scored. He has really been lucky in that regard. And I just haven't seen anything that makes me go he's got some serious talent or anything like that if it is a goal or move or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) My beef with Zubrus is I want to see him take it hard to the net and use his size everytime he is out there. He is blessed with his size and he rarely uses it. He might have been a better as a Devil than Kozlov, but there are certainly similarities between the two. The dude would rather circle around the net than take it hard. I have been frustrated for two years watching him. everyone says this about every player bigger than 6'3" 220. zubrus has good games and bad. he is not going to make anyone forget about cam neely. if he took it to the net hard and scored a lot he'd be a much more valuable commodity, but it is clear that throughout his career he really hasn't done that. whether his injury history has contributed to that, i don't know. i do think he will do it in the playoffs. As for Rolston, we'll also disagree until I see otherwise or you just never seen him reach that career shooting percentage again. I read the quotes Lou said about him when he signed him. He felt Rolston was a 35-year-old in a 30-year-old body. I certainly don't, and maybe that has to do with the high ankle sprain, but I definitely don't see a PP QB in him either. When you are worried in year 1, of a 4-year contract...that's never good. One thing about his goal count this year..is the amount of garbage goals he has scored. He has really been lucky in that regard. And I just haven't seen anything that makes me go he's got some serious talent or anything like that if it is a goal or move or anything like that. huh? garbage goals count just as much as other goals. are we taking away parise's garbage goals now? if you want to say rolston's been lucky on garbage goals, then you have to admit he's been pretty unlucky on everything else, as his shooting percentage is still down from his post-lockout average. rolston looked terrible for 20 games after he came back from his injury. he is still not going to dominate games - his skill is shooting the puck, and he will do it from all over the offensive zone, that's how he scores his goals. i also fail to see how he's not a PP QB - he's got 8 power play goals. that's 3rd on the devils and no one else is close. to put that in context, only parise had more than that last season. rolston is basically the improvement in the power play from last season. Edited March 25, 2009 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 huh? garbage goals count just as much as other goals. are we taking away parise's garbage goals now? if you want to say rolston's been lucky on garbage goals, then you have to admit he's been pretty unlucky on everything else, as his shooting percentage is still down from his post-lockout average. I meant to say fluky goals, rather than garbage goals. Rolston has gotten most or a good portion of his PP goals on 5 on 3, or 4 on 3. He needs space and lots of it to be effective. But I think we have seen that he isn't close to being a quarterback of the PP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockcreature66630 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 i read somewhere earlier that somebody was giving a pass to rolston. i totally agree. That injury that he had was something seriouse and can remember what crosby looked like at the end of last season. Hopefully he steps up in the playoffs which i think he will and continues to be positive throughout his contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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