NJDevs4978 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Come on sammy, how many different meanings can 'Canada Sucks' really have; I'm not going to go back and look for that thread, but as best I remember it, people wanted to know WHY he was saying it, not what it meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Come on sammy, how many different meanings can 'Canada Sucks' really have; I'm not going to go back and look for that thread, but as best I remember it, people wanted to know WHY he was saying it, not what it meant. I did say you guys didn't know what HE MEANT by it. Someone can say "Canada Sucks because it's too cold there", or something like that. My point was that it didn't HAVE to be political, and that none of you KNEW for sure that it was until you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 (edited) Lemme try a seperate hypothetical that we can all understand: the Devils win a game 6-5. Burns bellyaches in the postgame about how the team needs to play more defense. Everyone knows the meaning of the words; what he's saying, but some people might ask WHY he's saying those words after a win. There is a difference between knowing the meaning of something and wanting to know why someone says it, that's my point. People might ask why Don would say 'Ni----- sucks' (using his hypothetical) because they want to know what would compel him to think like that, not because they don't know what he means. Edited December 2, 2003 by Hasan4978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Lemme try a seperate hypothetical that we can all understand: the Devils win a game 6-5. Burns bellyaches in the postgame about how the team needs to play more defense. Everyone knows what Burns is saying (what he means), but some might want to know WHY he's saying it after a win. There is a difference between knowing the meaning of something and wanting to know why someone says it, that's my point. I understood what you were saying. The thing is that you were assuming his "Canada Sucks" avatar had political connotations. Now you guys were right, but it was still an assumption was it not? There is no way you could have known for SURE what he meant by "Canada Sucks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 People might ask why Don would say 'Ni----- sucks' (using his hypothetical) because they want to know what would compel him to think like that, not because they don't know what he means. OK, you edited. See, to what Don said, there is no alternate meaning. There CAN be an alternate meaning to "Canada Sucks" though. That's why I feel there is a difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Oh, come on Sammy. If you read on a bulliten board somewhere that said "USA SUCKS!", there is a chance that you would think they were talking about the geographical location of your country? I'm pretty sure 99% of the populace would assume that it was derogatory comment towards the American people, not the land mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Devs Fan Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 (edited) I understood what you were saying. The thing is that you were assuming his "Canada Sucks" avatar had political connotations. Now you guys were right, but it was still an assumption was it not? There is no way you could have known for SURE what he meant by "Canada Sucks". Sorry. In a thread somewhere else he said why its his avatar. And it wasn't because of the weather being cold. That's why I said something. I went to college in Canada. People treated me well. You can think what you want but if you are going to offend people who respected me then I'll stand behind them unless they give me reason not to. Edited December 2, 2003 by SC Devs Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Oh, come on Sammy. If you read on a bulliten board somewhere that said "USA SUCKS!", there is a chance that you would think they were talking about the geographical location of your country? I'm pretty sure 99% of the populace would assume that it was derogatory comment towards the American people, not the land mass. I only used weather as an example. I could have used society which would mean the people. Again I ask, what is WRONG in not liking a country or its people? Not everyone is going to like every country and its people. If someone says "USA SUCKS", let them. Those people are set in their ways, and there's nothing I can do to change their minds. I know I love my country, but I don't expect everyone to feel the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeps Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 It's lumping a country of 30 million plus people into one category. I don't get why anyone on a hockey messageboard would say "Canada sucks." What is it, 65% of NHL players from Canada? Canada's pretty sweet and no they aren't jealous, the UN consistently rates Canada as having the highest standard of living in the world and there are millions of reasons why. If you want to say Canada sucks, stop watching hockey. Sorry. It's like the guys who said "Nothing worse than Canadians" at a Devils game last year. A Devils fan saying it almost made me puke! And he was wearing a Stevens jersey! I asked him where Stevens was from and he said, "Yeah, but NHL players are different." It's like the people that are racist but are OK with black people playing on their college team as long as they're good. I call it hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 trauma. I say gizmo sucks... you name it he sucks it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 1. It's lumping a country of 30 million plus people into one category.2. I don't get why anyone on a hockey messageboard would say "Canada sucks." What is it, 65% of NHL players from Canada? 3. Canada's pretty sweet and no they aren't jealous, the UN consistently rates Canada as having the highest standard of living in the world and there are millions of reasons why. 4. If you want to say Canada sucks, stop watching hockey. Sorry. 1. What category is that? If someone doesn't like the country, they don't like it. BFD. 2. Maybe they like European players? What does that have to do with liking or not liking Canada? 3. You're right, it is. However, that is just an opinion. 4. That's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 trauma.I say gizmo sucks... you name it he sucks it. That's one way to put it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeps Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Anybody who likes hockey should respect Canada enough not to make sweeping generalization statements like Canada sucks... I don't think that's ridiculous. Given that the NHL would not exist without Canada and that the sport of hockey would not be nearly what it is today without Canada. So someone says "Canada sucks" and you yell at the people that are upset but if someone says "If you want to say Canada sucks, stop watching hockey" you call it ridiculous? Whatever. I guess we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Anybody who likes hockey should respect Canada enough not to make sweeping generalization statements like Canada sucks... I don't think that's ridiculous. Given that the NHL would not exist without Canada and that the sport of hockey would not be nearly what it is today without Canada.So someone says "Canada sucks" and you yell at the people that are upset but if someone says "If you want to say Canada sucks, stop watching hockey" you call it ridiculous? Whatever. I guess we disagree. So say some dude grows up in Russia, but doesn't like Canada, should he stop liking/watching hockey? C'mon. NHL not exist? Hockey not what it is? So you're saying without Canada, no one else would have figured out how to use sticks to move around a small disk on ice, and then organize it into a league? What I thought was ridiculous was you saying that people should stop watching hockey simply because Canada produces the majority of hockey players. Just for the record, I personally have nothing against Canada, and don't agree with the views of Gizmo. However, isn't he allowed to have his opinion and state it? If you guys had said NOTHING about his avatar, we wouldn't be discussing this right now. It's just an avatar, and you guys may even get admin to make him take it down, but what will that do? Nothing, since it won't change his stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeps Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I agree with what you say but disagree due to my pro-Canada bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 (edited) I agree with what you say but disagree due to my pro-Canada bias. Hehe, ok I think... EDIT: Edited December 2, 2003 by sammyk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeps Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I agree with what you say but disagree due to my pro-Canada bias. Hehe, ok I think... EDIT: Meh, well, I just know where I'm biased... I could formulate an argument but a lot of it would be stretches... I know what you are saying about Russia, which is why Canada hates Russia so much!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I agree with what you say but disagree due to my pro-Canada bias. Hehe, ok I think... EDIT: Meh, well, I just know where I'm biased... I could formulate an argument but a lot of it would be stretches... I know what you are saying about Russia, which is why Canada hates Russia so much!!! Heh see, Canada hates Russia! There might be some dude out there with a "Russia Sucks" avatar. Anyhow, see how you are pro-Canada and waving their flag? All the other poster is doing is waving the anti-Canada flag. Why should it be an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 See? This is what confuses me. Why is it a pre-judgement of someone based on their nationality any better than a pre-judgement of someone based on the colour of their skin? By Sammy's logic, not everyone is going to like every race of people on the planet and so be it. They should be allowed to voice their opinion wherever they want, including public hockey forums. BTW - I don't hate Russia/Russians. Where did that come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastdevfan Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Blech....the avatar still bother me. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nieuwy25 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I rarely venture in here, but I would like to add my two cents to this one. First of all, I love Canada and hope to be able to visit it before long. I've yet to meet a Canadian I didn't like. B) I didn't care for the avatar myself. However, gizmo's avatar didn't say "Canadians suck", it said "Canada sucks". So don.whiting's analogy to "N****** suck" doesn't quite hold. If someone says "Nigeria sucks" it certainly wouldn't have the same connotation as saying "N****** suck". I don't care for some of Canada's political leanings, and from what I see from Canadian channels on Center Ice, their media is veri anti-American. That in no way reflects on my feelings for Canada as a whole, or on her people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Niewy: The point I made earlier was that stating that "<insert country here> sucks!" rarely refers to the geography or climate, but rather to the socio-democratic make-up of the country. As proven by Gizmo's "explaination". If someone said "USA SUCKS!", I'm pretty sure you would assume it was a condemnation of the PEOPLE, not the CLIMATE. And therefore the analogy stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nieuwy25 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 But that's just it - I *don't* think when someone says "England sucks" or Nigeria or Australia, or whatever, that they're automatically talking about the people. It *could very well* be the climate, the culture, poverty, overcrowding, transportation problems, food . . . anything. At this current time, yes - when someone says "USA sucks" I would assume it has to do with the war and our political/military stance. We aren't very popular right now. And though I don't like to hear that, and I think they're very, very wrong, I can accept that. Unfortunately, gizmo did make it clear later that he blames Canadians in general for their government's stance on the war, and I think he's very wrong about that. But I agree with sammyk that the avatar itself wasn't NECESSARILY a political statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastdevfan Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 BTW, where has Gizmo gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 It seems he removed his avatar. Was that forced or voluntary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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