New York Mets 2017 Season Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

10 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Baseball is a distant third on my list behind hockey and football, but it was the first sport I got into as a kid. Played until I was 14 years old, and raised by an avid baseball fan (it's my mom's favorite sport by far). It's an acquired taste. A lot of kids just aren't into it like we were growing up, but there are a lot of up and coming young stars, as the All-Star game and HR derby illustrated, that may be able to get the up and coming generation more into the sport. I think baseball, like hockey, is best enjoyed in person by the casual fan or the person who may not be into it watching on TV. A day at the 'ol ballpark is still one of my favorite sports experiences.

There's definitely aspects of the game that have changed for the worst...and to extent, I blame the growth of too-smart-for-the-room sabermetricians.  I'm not dead-set against sabermetrics and I sometimes use them to point out how a player might be due for possible positive (or negative) regression, but there's certain ideas that they stand by that I just don't agree with...one of which is that strikeouts aren't so bad...I disagree entirely; for one, though it's great if you have a deGrom-type dialed in and dealing any given day, it's not great if guys are just K'ing left and right in so many games...it's gotten silly.  Too many ABs now seem to be about HRs or Ks...Sandy Alderson seems to love this kind of hitter, and it's made the Mets a very tough team to watch at times...sure, it's great when they're bullying up on a crappy fifth starter and hitting 5+ HRs, but quite often they're coming up with 6 hits or so, hitting a meaningless solo shot, striking out a ton, and not playing much situational baseball.  What's ironic is that the Mets' home park (even with the fences moved in) doesn't even play that well as a "jack it out" kind of stadium...Sandy should be trying to find gap hitters and contact hitters and solid OB% guys who can actually play some fvcking DEFENSE as well...the team is poorly constructed both for CitiField AND for its pitching staff...and even worse, there's been times where the Mets have tried to make hitters who aren't known for being OB% guys exactly that...often with mixed to poor results.  I'd much rather see a "small-ball with a little power" kind of team than the all-or-nothing bully offense the Mets have had for years now (REALLY hoping Rosario and Smith bring about change in that department). 

Got a little off track, but a lot of nuances have been lost in recent years.  Baseball's not as deep of a game as it once was, and I miss the depth.   

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

15 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I have no answers.  Until I was about 11, baseball was easily my favorite sport and that's when the Yankees were absolutely horrible (I remember being excited for Brien Taylor being the savior of the team).  From about age 12 to 25 the Yankees and Devils were pretty much neck and neck, but right around the time the Yankees moved into the new stadium I really stopped caring to the point that I only passively watched the World Series in 2009 and would go seasons with maybe watching 5 total innings on TV.  While the Yankees are more fun to watch now, it's still Devils and Dolphins for me by a long shot. 

What makes kids choose to watch one thing over another is a bit of a mystery sometimes.

Evan and Joe have touched on this in recent broadcasts...baseball has become a very low-event game, especially with all of the strikeouts.  More contact = more plays in the field = more events.  And they are right about something else...there is a LOT of sloppy defense and general lack of fundamentals throughout MLB.  That's been an issue with the Mets for years now (including the 2015 and 2016 teams that made the postseason), but they're not the only guilty party on that front.  The event that every other aspect of baseball seems to take a distant backseat to is the home run...and that needs to change. 

[MadDog2020]

There's definitely aspects of the game that have changed for the worst...and to extent, I blame the growth of too-smart-for-the-room sabermetricians.  I'm not dead-set against sabermetrics and I sometimes use them to point out how a player might be due for possible positive (or negative) regression, but there's certain ideas that they stand by that I just don't agree with...one of which is that strikeouts aren't so bad...I disagree entirely; for one, though it's great if you have a deGrom-type dialed in and dealing any given day, it's not great if guys are just K'ing left and right in so many games...it's gotten silly.  Too many ABs now seem to be about HRs or Ks...Sandy Alderson seems to love this kind of hitter, and it's made the Mets a very tough team to watch at times...sure, it's great when they're bullying up on a crappy fifth starter and hitting 5+ HRs, but quite often they're coming up with 6 hits or so, hitting a meaningless solo shot, striking out a ton, and not playing much situational baseball.  What's ironic is that the Mets' home park (even with the fences moved in) doesn't even play that well as a "jack it out" kind of stadium...Sandy should be trying to find gap hitters and contact hitters and solid OB% guys who can actually play some fvcking DEFENSE as well...the team is poorly constructed both for CitiField AND for its pitching staff...and even worse, there's been times where the Mets have tried to make hitters who aren't known for being OB% guys exactly that...often with mixed to poor results.  I'd much rather see a "small-ball with a little power" kind of team than the all-or-nothing bully offense the Mets have had for years now (REALLY hoping Rosario and Smith bring about change in that department). 
Got a little off track, but a lot of nuances have been lost in recent years.  Baseball's not as deep of a game as it once was, and I miss the depth.   

I agree on the sabremetrics stuff, the game has gotten too specialized it seems. The other thing that hasn't helped is replay. Manfred talks about wanting to speed up the game, and yet every replay review (not unlike the NFL) takes three days. They need to fine-tune the replay system.


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[Daniel]

The other thing about baseball is that there aren't really any marketable megastars anymore.  When I was a kid, even the types in school that didn't follow sports that much knew players like Gooden, Strawberry, Mattingly, Canseco, Ricky Henderson, Clemens and Nolan Ryan.  And when I got older, everyone in the country knew who McGwire, Bonds, Arod, Jeter and Sosa were.  (Had he not flamed out, Nomar, would have been on that list too). 

The two best position players in the game today are Trout and Harper, neither of whom are really household names like any of the players I mentioned previously were.  Best pitcher is Kershaw, who isn't even close in name recognition as Gooden, Clemens or Nolan Ryan, and probably even Greg Maddux, who was as close as it gets to a quiet superstar. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

39 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I agree on the sabremetrics stuff, the game has gotten too specialized it seems. The other thing that hasn't helped is replay. Manfred talks about wanting to speed up the game, and yet every replay review (not unlike the NFL) takes three days. They need to fine-tune the replay system.

The game has gotten a bit too specialized, and too many "by-the-book" managers out there who can barely think for themselves, especially with pitching changes...for some reason (probably because it's a round number), so many managers think 100 pitches = starter must soon be taken out of the game...as if 100 pitches across the board are all created equal.  What's funny is the "by-the-book" guys will so rarely think outside the damned box...say your set-up man comes in for the 8th and gets the side out in less than 10 pitches.  Why do you HAVE to go right to your closer there, every time?  Why is it some unwritten law that your set-up man (or men, for that matter...picture the scenario I just brought up, but it's the 7th-inning guy who gets through his inning without issue) must only pitch one inning? 

And there's just SO many pitching changes now...and with a manager like TC (who's never been good at managing a staff), he'll have guys warming up seemingly for the sake of warming up. 

I'm not saying there's ever going to be an exact science for this stuff, but it would be nice if the "by-the-book" mentality just went away...though I guess for dopes like TC, you almost defer to it because you barely know any better.

Agree on replays, too many checks take way longer than they need to.  And you get your share of "what the hell, why not?" challenges that everyone knows aren't going to be overturned...but the umps still have to through the charade of checking to be sure, so there's more time wasted.  And then there's the constant stepping in/stepping out in the batter's box.  Wright used to adjust his gloves after every single pitch, whether he swung or not...that crap really gets annoying after awhile.

25 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The other thing about baseball is that there aren't really any marketable megastars anymore.  When I was a kid, even the types in school that didn't follow sports that much knew players like Gooden, Strawberry, Mattingly, Canseco, Ricky Henderson, Clemens and Nolan Ryan.  And when I got older, everyone in the country knew who McGwire, Bonds, Arod, Jeter and Sosa were.  (Had he not flamed out, Nomar, would have been on that list too). 

The two best position players in the game today are Trout and Harper, neither of whom are really household names like any of the players I mentioned previously were.  Best pitcher is Kershaw, who isn't even close in name recognition as Gooden, Clemens or Nolan Ryan, and probably even Greg Maddux, who was as close as it gets to a quiet superstar. 

Those guys also had a certain larger-than-life mystique because unless you were in their markets (or unless your team actually played against in their league), you didn't see them that much, and when you did, it was often though occasional heroic highlights showing their best moments...that's part of what made the All-Star game so much more special back in the day.  Everyone is so much more accessible now...you can see today's stars so much more often now, and you can also witness a lot more failure. 

With pitchers, too many of them get hurt or aren't consistent long enough...with hitters, you no longer have those "so tough to strike out" guys...there used to be some awesome hitters that would strike out once every 9 or 10 bats (some even better than that)...now you've got guys who average better than a strikeout per game...even the Mike Trouts and Bryce Harpers strike out a ton now...there's just no seemingly "invulnerable" guys, the way there once was...everyone can be struck out, almost too easily.  Where's the Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, Don Mattingly-types?  Guys who just knew how to consistently making fvcking CONTACT? 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Daniel]

5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

 

With pitchers, too many of them get hurt or aren't consistent long enough...with hitters, you no longer have those "so tough to strike out" guys...there used to be some awesome hitters that would strike out once every 9 or 10 bats (some even better than that)...now you've got guys who average better than a strikeout per game...even the Mike Trouts and Bryce Harpers strike out a ton now...there's just no seemingly "invulnerable" guys, the way there once was...everyone can be struck out, almost too easily.  Where's the Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, Don Mattingly-types?  Guys who just knew how to consistently making fvcking CONTACT? 

Now Tony Gwynn, that was a player I loved to watch hit.  He could drive a pitcher nuts fouling off pitch after pitch he didn't like, then plunk a single wherever he wanted or rip a double to the gap if he had the opportunity. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Now Tony Gwynn, that was a player I loved to watch hit.  He could drive a pitcher nuts fouling off pitch after pitch he didn't like, then plunk a single wherever he wanted or rip a double to the gap if he had the opportunity. 

The closest thing you have to him now (in some ways) is Daniel Murphy.  Only 138 K in his last 370 regular season GP (since the start of the 2015 season)...just one K per 11.13 PA over that time.  That's practically unheard of these days.   

['7']

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Bad news:

http://nypost.com/2017/08/03/mets-appear-committed-to-sandy-alderson-for-the-long-haul/

 

I hate to sound ageist...but how can you commit to any 70 year old for the long haul in any line of work?

I like how the article states he shows no signs of declining energy? Really? Not to everybody who follows the team on a daily basis. Sandy is perhaps the most lethargic GM in the business. He totally misreads the teams situations constantly and is not up with the current game of baseball and how winning teams are assembled today.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

16 minutes ago, '7' said:

I hate to sound ageist...but how can you commit to any 70 year old for the long haul in any line of work?

I like how the article states he shows no signs of declining energy? Really? Not to everybody who follows the team on a daily basis. Sandy is perhaps the most lethargic GM in the business. He totally misreads the teams situations constantly and is not up with the current game of baseball and how winning teams are assembled today.

I don't think he's the most energetic or "all in" guy either, but for me, what it comes down to is his philosophy.  With him, it's HR power first, second, and third...everything else is a distant fourth.  If he sticks, I think we get more of the same.  Another year of d'Oh-No behind the plate.  Rosario and Smith will be the big "acquisitions" in Sandy's eyes.  Reyes and/or Cabrera will be back as  utility infielders, with Gavin Cecchini possibly getting an opportunity to win the second base job.  Cespedes in LF (when healthy), Conforto in CF.  Maybe Bruce comes back (I think he would actually like that), but if he doesn't, Sandy will sign some version of Chris Young/John Mayberry Jr./Alejandro de Aza "bargain" to play RF, who will promptly so as little as we'd expect him to...because Sandy's bargain signings have been very hit-or-miss (more miss, really).  If Bruce stays, it's probably another victory-lap kind of offseason for Sandy, with a lot of needs not being addressed.

If he stays on as GM, it will be an unimaginative, disastrous, deflating kind of offseason.  There will be quotes about how better moves just weren't out there to be made.  He's gotta go.  He's not taking this any farther. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

lol that's about 98% accurate except for Checchini, I don't see him ever being counted on for anything. If anything they'd just play Flores at 2B or 3B with Cabrera getting the other spot.

[NJDevs4978]

This was so fitting. Wasn't going to stay for the whole game, just wanted to see Jake and a couple of AB's from Rosario and get the promo. But man this game was so symbolic of the 2017 Mets, lifeless and dissapointing.

['7']

And after such an encouraging start on Saturday, the Mets promptly went to sleep once again. 3rd time through the order and Lugo got massacred. Justin Turner somehow continues to be Murphy-west. Already preparing for Duda to become the Willie McCovey of Tropicana Field

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Another fine outing for Steve Matz...thank God for Dan Worthless.

Speaking of Worthless...in his awesome, just over 300 IP MLB career, he walked nearly 200 hitters.  Just the kind of guy you want teaching and working with young arms.  Get this fvcking pile of nothing out of here already.  No Sandy, he's not part of the solution because you're too indifferent and lazy to find someone better.

One other thing Sandy:  since the start of 2015, Jose Reyes has a .256 BA, .306 OB%, .699 OPS, and an OPS+ of 84 (100 is average).  Oh yeah, he sucks in the field as well.  The guy can't be a Met next season, under any circumstances.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

I didn't realize Warthen HAD a Major League career   Somehow had a 3.11 ERA in 167.2 IP despite the control problems in his rookie season but washed out after that.

Ironically they do have at least one pitching coach in the system who had a nice major league career (Viola), but can't really say he's distinguished himself in Vegas.  Even in a hitter-friendly environment Vegas has been dead last in team ERA the last two seasons fwiw.  If nothing else maybe Viola'd keep the pitchers healthier at least since he was a workhorse in his career - had at least 230+ IP every year from 1984-92.

Edited August 7, 2017 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 5:03 PM, NJDevs4978 said:

lol that's about 98% accurate except for Checchini, I don't see him ever being counted on for anything. If anything they'd just play Flores at 2B or 3B with Cabrera getting the other spot.

Keep in mind that Cecchini was a 12th-overall pick in the 2012 draft...that means he's going to get multiple looks around here for a while...he'll probably get as many opportunities to make the second base job his as d'Oh-No has (to be the catcher of the present and future).  That's just how this franchise rolls...Sandy's ego will likely force Cecchini down our collective throats for a while.  I think Flores is kind of done here, for some reason...most of his offensive numbers have improved every year, but he doesn't really have a position where you feel good about sticking him.  What's sad is that out of Flores, Reyes, and Cabrera, two out of the three should absolutely NOT be on this team in 2018...to go a bit further, Reyes and Cabrera are the one that shouldn't be back.  Both are former SSs who can no longer handle that position everyday, and the Mets are trying to make fetch happen (what else is new?) by now having them play different positions.  Neither player has a bat so terrific that they deserve to butcher it up in the field.  At least with Flores, you get SOME offense there...his OB% is lacking, but at least he's showing signs of being a guy who might be a solid bat...a guy who actually can hit for a decent average.  And he's not an aging vet in decline; at this point, I'd just give Flores the everyday third baseman's job for the rest of this season...Cabrera should not be the future there, no way.

9 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I didn't realize Warthen HAD a Major League career   Somehow had a 3.11 ERA in 167.2 IP despite the control problems in his rookie season but washed out after that.

Ironically they do have at least one pitching coach in the system who had a nice major league career (Viola), but can't really say he's distinguished himself in Vegas.  Even in a hitter-friendly environment Vegas has been dead last in team ERA the last two seasons fwiw.  If nothing else maybe Viola'd keep the pitchers healthier at least since he was a workhorse in his career - had at least 230+ IP every year from 1984-92.

And to be fair, it's not like every great coach was necessarily a great player...some who couldn't necessarily do it CAN teach it...I'm just tired of Worthless seeming not only to have any answers, but of Met arms constantly getting injured under his watch...and for me, deGrom suddenly going on a run after talking to Smoltz was the last straw...look, obviously much of the ability to perform is God-given, but I've seen some pitching coaches through the years that managed to consistently get more out of what they had to work with than other PCs.  I don't see that with Worthless at all...actually, more the opposite.  I don't see a guy who's "part of the solution", that's for damned sure. 

Players do seem to like Viola, from what I've heard...if you want to go back to Viola's history as a player, it's kind of funny, because he was a bit of a headcase/PITA (I remember the Twins getting frustrated with him through his first five seasons in the majors, though he always made his starts and gave his team innings)...and with the Mets, I remember in his second full season there, he just kind of quit, especially as the team fell apart...you could really see it...he put up a 4.90 ERA in his final 22 starts with the Mets (he went 6-12, team went 8-14).  He obviously had a long and solid career, but there was always a bit of an underachieving, "should have been better" vibe with him.  I'd be curious to see how he'd fare as a MLB pitching coach...I'll say this much:  the guy was as durable as they come...over a ten-year stretch (1983-92), he averaged about 245 IP per season, and I don't think he EVER missed a start in that timeframe...maybe he can come here and teach durability, heh heh.   

---------------------

Rosario struggling a bit at the plate (10 Ks through 6 GP)...can't say I'm that surprised, but that's the way he's going to learn...he's not going to improve much by beating up on AAAA chum in the PCL.  Just hope the Mets stick with him (as long as it doesn't get SO ugly that he needs to sit) and give him a legit shot. 

Dom Smith 2-for-21 with 9 K (4 BB) in his last 6 GP...get the feeling he's restless.   

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Starting to get the feeling that the Mets could re-sign Jay Bruce pretty cheaply if they really wanted to this offseason.  As in only for 2-3 years, at not insane dollars (say for $13-15 million per season), or even on a one-year "show me" contract...based on the below, I don't see much of a market for him.   

Though he's having a solid year this season (better than we all were expecting), it's not hard to see why teams don't seem to be all that interested:

2014-15 combined:  .222/.288/.406 slash, .695 OPS, 90 OPS+, 294 K in 294 GP.  There's no nice way to put it...Bruce was a pretty bad hitter for those two seasons.

2016 as a Met:  .219/.294/.391 slash, .685 OPS, 83 OPS+, 43 K in 50 GP.  Very similar to above.

So basically, you have some recent rotten samples, including one that came after he was supposed to be a deadline deal bolster-the-lineup-type acquisition...I think a team might eventually say "What the hell?" and try to snag him (especially if an OF gets hurt), but I get the impression that no one is going to give up ANYTHING of any real significance for him...not even a decent prospect (unless the Mets were willing to pay almost ALL of his remaining money, and even then they're likely not getting something worthwhile back). 

I'd actually be very nervous if the Mets brought him back for more than next season...I think the 2014-15 version of Bruce could absolutely come back over a full season...he's obviously slowed up a bit lately, but he still might finish the season with a career high OPS (currently .852, which would be a career-high if it stands)...can we really ask him to do that again?  I could probably live with a decent-priced Bruce if I knew for sure that he could approach his 2010-13 numbers (.262/.337/.489, .826 OPS, 121 OPS+...basically what he's doing in 2017), but I just don't feel confident that that will happen.  So I'm thinking one year + an option with a buyout as an initial offer...if the Mets had to go 2 years + an option/buyout, well, I can't say I wouldn't be pretty concerned, but I'm not sure who else the Mets could get, and at least they could move on relatively quickly.  I really think this might be enough to keep him here. 

And on the soon-to-be-contact-albatross note:  Juan "I sneezed and went on the DL" Lagares has $6.5 million coming to him next season, and $9 million in 2019.  Get the feeling Sandy might try to get a once-solid BP arm on a bad contract coming off a poor year or two (or a series of injuries), in exchange for getting Lagares off the books. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

On 8/7/2017 at 7:59 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Keep in mind that Cecchini was a 12th-overall pick in the 2012 draft...that means he's going to get multiple looks around here for a while...he'll probably get as many opportunities to make the second base job his as d'Oh-No has (to be the catcher of the present and future).  That's just how this franchise rolls...Sandy's ego will likely force Cecchini down our collective throats for a while.  I think Flores is kind of done here, for some reason...most of his offensive numbers have improved every year, but he doesn't really have a position where you feel good about sticking him.  What's sad is that out of Flores, Reyes, and Cabrera, two out of the three should absolutely NOT be on this team in 2018...to go a bit further, Reyes and Cabrera are the one that shouldn't be back.  Both are former SSs who can no longer handle that position everyday, and the Mets are trying to make fetch happen (what else is new?) by now having them play different positions.  Neither player has a bat so terrific that they deserve to butcher it up in the field.  At least with Flores, you get SOME offense there...his OB% is lacking, but at least he's showing signs of being a guy who might be a solid bat...a guy who actually can hit for a decent average.  And he's not an aging vet in decline; at this point, I'd just give Flores the everyday third baseman's job for the rest of this season...Cabrera should not be the future there, no way.

And to be fair, it's not like every great coach was necessarily a great player...some who couldn't necessarily do it CAN teach it...I'm just tired of Worthless seeming not only to have any answers, but of Met arms constantly getting injured under his watch...and for me, deGrom suddenly going on a run after talking to Smoltz was the last straw...look, obviously much of the ability to perform is God-given, but I've seen some pitching coaches through the years that managed to consistently get more out of what they had to work with than other PCs.  I don't see that with Worthless at all...actually, more the opposite.  I don't see a guy who's "part of the solution", that's for damned sure. 

Players do seem to like Viola, from what I've heard...if you want to go back to Viola's history as a player, it's kind of funny, because he was a bit of a headcase/PITA (I remember the Twins getting frustrated with him through his first five seasons in the majors, though he always made his starts and gave his team innings)...and with the Mets, I remember in his second full season there, he just kind of quit, especially as the team fell apart...you could really see it...he put up a 4.90 ERA in his final 22 starts with the Mets (he went 6-12, team went 8-14).  He obviously had a long and solid career, but there was always a bit of an underachieving, "should have been better" vibe with him.  I'd be curious to see how he'd fare as a MLB pitching coach...I'll say this much:  the guy was as durable as they come...over a ten-year stretch (1983-92), he averaged about 245 IP per season, and I don't think he EVER missed a start in that timeframe...maybe he can come here and teach durability, heh heh.   

---------------------

Rosario struggling a bit at the plate (10 Ks through 6 GP)...can't say I'm that surprised, but that's the way he's going to learn...he's not going to improve much by beating up on AAAA chum in the PCL.  Just hope the Mets stick with him (as long as it doesn't get SO ugly that he needs to sit) and give him a legit shot. 

Dom Smith 2-for-21 with 9 K (4 BB) in his last 6 GP...get the feeling he's restless.   

I looked back at that 2012 MLB draft. Addison Russell went right before Cecchini. Curious if the Mets were praying Russell would fall to them and just missed out. After Cecchini it was nothing special until you got down to 18/19 which was Seager/Wacha...and then a bunch of nothing after that. Not the strongest first round. 

I have no clue what the Mets are doing with Dom or why he's not here yet. I bet he's got the baseball version of senioritis. He knows he's going to the big club and he knows it's any day now so his focus could be somewhere else.

It's both the big injuries and the little one's with Warthen. All of a sudden we had a blister issue this year where we never have before. Warthen is part of the problem though along with the entire training staff. With Warthen it's arms, but their approach in general with the constant pulls, quads, hammies...and these aren't 1-2 days and back in the lineup type things. It just seems like the Mets have bought into some sort of hardcore training program that results in guys being wound too tight. It's not for baseball. If they don't do a full purge of Ray Ramirez and the rest of these dummy trainers over the winter then I'm going to be enraged...because it's going to continue next year too. Cespedes will come up lame somewhere, 6-8 weeks and then lingering issues, a few guys will collapse after sprinting to first grabbing their hamstrings, Lagares will hurt something diving for a fly ball (hey remember him!?)

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by '7'

['7']

6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Starting to get the feeling that the Mets could re-sign Jay Bruce pretty cheaply if they really wanted to this offseason.  As in only for 2-3 years, at not insane dollars (say for $13-15 million per season), or even on a one-year "show me" contract...based on the below, I don't see much of a market for him.   

Though he's having a solid year this season (better than we all were expecting), it's not hard to see why teams don't seem to be all that interested:

2014-15 combined:  .222/.288/.406 slash, .695 OPS, 90 OPS+, 294 K in 294 GP.  There's no nice way to put it...Bruce was a pretty bad hitter for those two seasons.

2016 as a Met:  .219/.294/.391 slash, .685 OPS, 83 OPS+, 43 K in 50 GP.  Very similar to above.

So basically, you have some recent rotten samples, including one that came after he was supposed to be a deadline deal bolster-the-lineup-type acquisition...I think a team might eventually say "What the hell?" and try to snag him (especially if an OF gets hurt), but I get the impression that no one is going to give up ANYTHING of any real significance for him...not even a decent prospect (unless the Mets were willing to pay almost ALL of his remaining money, and even then they're likely not getting something worthwhile back). 

I'd actually be very nervous if the Mets brought him back for more than next season...I think the 2014-15 version of Bruce could absolutely come back over a full season...he's obviously slowed up a bit lately, but he still might finish the season with a career high OPS (currently .852, which would be a career-high if it stands)...can we really ask him to do that again?  I could probably live with a decent-priced Bruce if I knew for sure that he could approach his 2010-13 numbers (.262/.337/.489, .826 OPS, 121 OPS+...basically what he's doing in 2017), but I just don't feel confident that that will happen.  So I'm thinking one year + an option with a buyout as an initial offer...if the Mets had to go 2 years + an option/buyout, well, I can't say I wouldn't be pretty concerned, but I'm not sure who else the Mets could get, and at least they could move on relatively quickly.  I really think this might be enough to keep him here. 

And on the soon-to-be-contact-albatross note:  Juan "I sneezed and went on the DL" Lagares has $6.5 million coming to him next season, and $9 million in 2019.  Get the feeling Sandy might try to get a once-solid BP arm on a bad contract coming off a poor year or two (or a series of injuries), in exchange for getting Lagares off the books. 

I'm approaching the Bruce situation very carefully. He's 30 so still in his prime but also right about the time things are starting to turn, he's slow and generally a butcher in the field. 1b will be clogged up with Dom on the way. We'd have nowhere else to put him.

However maybe Bruce was fixed much like Murphy was fixed and this is now here to last? I could go either way with him really.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 hours ago, '7' said:

I'm approaching the Bruce situation very carefully. He's 30 so still in his prime but also right about the time things are starting to turn, he's slow and generally a butcher in the field. 1b will be clogged up with Dom on the way. We'd have nowhere else to put him.

However maybe Bruce was fixed much like Murphy was fixed and this is now here to last? I could go either way with him really.

Pretty much where I am...I have a feeling he's almost going to fall into the Mets' lap, much like Cespedes did in the 2015 offseason...part of the reason being that he's not much of a fielder, and GMs are probably scared to pay him too much based on his 2014-15 numbers.  I think the most he'll get on the open market is 2 years/$28 million or so.  Then Sandy will have to decide if that's too rich for his blood.  I'd really like Sandy to start making defense more of a priority (for once), so suffice it to say that I'd be a bit lukewarm on Bruce even if he signs a very reasonable deal...when it comes right down to it, Bruce doesn't really do a whole lot other than hit HRs (and not miss too many games)...doesn't really get many hits, doesn't really get on base that much, not a good fielder...I've had my fill of HR/high-K guys who don't bring much else to the table.  

Though I don't think it will happen, if anyone goes beyond that, the only "above and beyond" offer I would make beyond two years is to add an option year w/a buyout.  If someone wants to go three years at $13 to $14 million per for Bruce's age 31 through 33 seasons, I think I'd have to walk away.  Just too much potential for that deal to blow up...especially for a team that will almost happily use a contract like that as an excuse not to do anything else when the time calls for it. 

['7']

Montero is a warm body that pitches, and with how our staff has been decimated this year, it probably means he will wrap up 2017 as a regular starter in our rotation.

But I don't want him anywhere near this team in 2018. He is so embarrassingly wretched. There is no hope. He will never make it as a Met.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, '7' said:

Montero is a warm body that pitches, and with how our staff has been decimated this year, it probably means he will wrap up 2017 as a regular starter in our rotation.

But I don't want him anywhere near this team in 2018. He is so embarrassingly wretched. There is no hope. He will never make it as a Met.

74 pitches through two innings?! 

He might still be with the organization in 2018, but it will be as a depth guy, a Plan F player, for when a lot of guys get hurt...unfortunately, as we've seen, that happens here a lot.  It wouldn't shock me to see him make a batch of starts next year.   

Yeah, the beginnings of earning trust have pretty much been destroyed by his last three starts.  He's allowed 7 HRs overall in his last four starts.  He's still prone to giving up BBs.  And he has a WHIP of 1.81...it's hard to be much worse than that.  I would just like to see this organization just ONCE take a stand and say "Hey, you've been given enough opportunities, but we need to move on now."  That NEVER happens.

And on that note, supposedly the Mets are already sticking with d'Arnaud in 2018...apparently because he's been hitting a little after the ASB (odd in that his OPS was .728 heading into the break, and now currently stands at .726...sorry, not seeing this massive overall improvement)...guess it doesn't matter that d'Arnaud will NEVER hit enough to offset his many behind-the-plate deficiencies, or has yet to show that he can ever stay on the field consistently...how long does he get to live off whatever promise he showed in 2015?  Next year d'Arnaud will enter his age 29 season, which will be his 5th full in the majors (he's never played in more than 108 games in any given season)...exactly how much time does he get to "develop"?  He's not a prospect anymore...I think he is what he is.  And though I think he can be a better hitter than his career numbers suggest, he shouldn't be here after this season.  He's just not good.   

 

[NJDevs4978]

It happens with the Justin Turners of the world, not Montero or TDA lol

22 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I would just like to see this organization just ONCE take a stand and say "Hey, you've been given enough opportunities, but we need to move on now."  That NEVER happens.

And on that note, supposedly the Mets are already sticking with d'Arnaud in 2018...apparently because he's been hitting a little after the ASB (odd in that his OPS was .728 heading into the break, and now currently stands at .726...sorry, not seeing this massive overall improvement)...guess it doesn't matter that d'Arnaud will NEVER hit enough to offset his many behind-the-plate deficiencies, or has yet to show that he can ever stay on the field consistently...how long does he get to live off whatever promise he showed in 2015?  Next year d'Arnaud will enter his age 29 season, which will be his 5th full in the majors (he's never played in more than 108 games in any given season)...exactly how much time does he get to "develop"?  He's not a prospect anymore...I think he is what he is.  And though I think he can be a better hitter than his career numbers suggest, he shouldn't be here after this season.  He's just not good.   

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

It happens with the Justin Turners of the world, not Montero or TDA lol

Fair or unfair, those are black marks on Sandy's resume...this is a GM who's supposed to be able to spot talent, and two of the players he allowed to get away have gone on to be excellent.  He's also supposed to be able to hit on bargain signings, but as we've seen, he's missed on a lot of those too. 

I've never gotten on Sandy for Murph, and in fairness with regards to Turner, Wright put up a .904 OPS prior to Turner leaving...that was Wright's best OPS in five seasons (though he missed a bunch of games).  Turner was also a .696 OPS as a Met, and is now a .887 OPS guy as a Dodger.  But when you're arrogant, condescending, and not very proactive or creative, AND act like you're a maverick who's forever the smartest guy in the room (as Sandy does), you're going to get less of the benefit of the doubt...his body of work here just isn't that impressive. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Oh boy, the Human Flamethrower walks in a run with the bases loaded.  Robles is one loser who absolutely CAN'T be back next season.  I don't give a sh!t how inexpensive he'll be (he's entering his first season of arbitration and can't be getting too much of a raise considering that he spent two months in the minors)...get him the fvck outta here. 

[NJDevs4978]

Well peace out Jay...I like how he came back this year determined to prove he could handle NY and did.  Hopefully he helps the Indians win something.

Of course the Mets wouldn't retain salary so all they get back is some wild A-ball bullpen pitcher who wasn't a top 30 prospect for the Indians, and was a 30th round pick last year.

Edited August 10, 2017 by NJDevs4978