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Sworn Defenders announce a minor trade...  sending D Erik Brannstrom and their 2021 20th  to Miles Wood Fightclub for D Josh Manson and their 2021 18th.

 

 

On 9/2/2019 at 9:43 PM, aylbert said:

Trades
Trades will no longer be pushed through at the commissioners discretion immediately.    I will allow the full day to allow any and all grievances and to afford ample time to discuss with the parties to ensure that trades are well intended.   As previously stated, this league has been running since 2002, and as such, some GMs are emotionally invested and do not want to see players simply given away.  At the same time, we will not be implementing any sort of trade value chart that dictates the terms of trades or forcing the use of the trade block, etc.

I want things to be as transparent as possible with decisive decisions made with an even and fair hand.     I would recommend putting feelers out if you are looking to trade away top talent or younger keepers with a lot of promise.    Part of the issue we ran into last year was communication, as GMs thinking they could easily offer more if they only knew the player was on the block.       Let other GMs know, and it’s very possible you might get a better return.    

Reminder:  In interest of transparency, new for this year, trades will no longer be "approved" by the commissioner - only "vetoed".
This will allow for the trade to be scrutinized by all GMs and provide a reasonable amount of time to raise objections (1 day)..   

This will prevent trades from being pushed through immediately upon 'approval' of the commissioner only later to have it reversed.

 

Edited by aylbert
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Keepers have been finalized. They break down as follows to start the season: C :  12 G : 9 D : 7 RW : 6 C / LW : 3 LW : 3 LW/RW : 2  

Happy draft day!

redruM does net need a burner acct but if he did, it would b undetectable 😉

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Sworn Defenders announce a minor trade...  sending D Erik Brannstrom and their 2021 20th  to Miles Wood Fightclub for D Josh Manson and their 2021 18th.
 
Reminder:  In interest of transparency, new for this year, trades will no longer be "approved" by the commissioner - only "vetoed".
This will allow for the trade to be scrutinized by all GMs and provide a reasonable amount of time to raise objections (1 day)..   

This will prevent trades from being pushed through immediately upon 'approval' of the commissioner only later to have it reversed.


 
Confirmed!

Btw is there a limit to how many years you can keep a keeper or is it endless?
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Just now, NQDevil said:

Confirmed!

Btw is there a limit to how many years you can keep a keeper or is it endless?

No need to confirm now that we are in-season...   but I always like recapping here for discussion sake, etc.

Your 3 UFA keepers are yours until you choose to release them.
Your 1 RFA keeper has the 100 game cut off...  after they pass 100 games played they are no longer able to be kept as an RFA keeper (but free to transition to a UFA keeper)

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No need to confirm now that we are in-season...   but I always like recapping here for discussion sake, etc.

Your 3 UFA keepers are yours until you choose to release them.
Your 1 RFA keeper has the 100 game cut off...  after they pass 100 games played they are no longer able to be kept as an RFA keeper (but free to transition to a UFA keeper)
Ah great, cheers! High hopes for Svechnikov then.
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4 minutes ago, redruM said:

Trades b4 the 1st game? Holy crap!

No different than a draft pick swap.   

I honestly didnt intend to draft Brannstrom; he was left over on my rookie list and I timed out in the draft looking for a decent veteran.  In a redo, I would have just drafted Nolan Patrick.    
However, I did see there was interest in the draft board in him, so I dropped somebody else to grab Patrick... with hopes of recouping some value from Brannstrom --- in this case, upgrading my 20th to an 18th.  Small incremental value.

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1 hour ago, redruM said:

Waiting a week for the season to start us killing me!!

Agreed...  having the draft a week earlier rather than the night or two before is taxing...  I check my roster each day like something happened.  lol

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14 hours ago, aylbert said:

Devilsfan118 (Zajacing off) too!

Oh I'll think of something, but I'm going to need to formally apply for an extension for a few days :lol: 

Tryin to be all cute and sh!t and come up with a name associated with my keepers

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Sworn Defenders have a blockbuster to announce as they send D Cale Makar and their 2020 5th rounder to One More Tank for D Brent Burns and a 2020 17th rounder.

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So just to follow up on my comment in Yahoo last night - if I'm in the minority I'll accept it and move on, but that return for the best defenseman in the league (7th overall pick) seems light based on transactions in previous seasons.

I mean, for comparisons sake - I doubt hyped but unproven rookie + 5th would cut it for any of the players selected before Burns and for many after in the first or even second round.

Now, all that said - if this is how we want to set the market, it is what it is. But no one better offer me a rookie + 5th round pick for Kucherov, I'll tell you that lol

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1 hour ago, Devilsfan118 said:

So just to follow up on my comment in Yahoo last night - if I'm in the minority I'll accept it and move on, but that return for the best defenseman in the league (7th overall pick) seems light based on transactions in previous seasons.

I mean, for comparisons sake - I doubt hyped but unproven rookie + 5th would cut it for any of the players selected before Burns and for many after in the first or even second round.

Now, all that said - if this is how we want to set the market, it is what it is. But no one better offer me a rookie + 5th round pick for Kucherov, I'll tell you that lol

The counter to this is that you aren't out there saying your selling off your team already because you missed the draft.    I would agree nobody looking to compete for a championship this season is dealing off their 1st round selection for next year.  He put a notice out there for the league to see, so it was known he was looking for picks and talent to carry over to 2020.    As there is a plan, I don't view this as a careless dumping of talent as there is an exchange of talent that both sides value.    

You can't compare last season apples to apples, as we now have an RFA keeper which adds an additional keeper for potentially high impact rookies.
Makar is projected to put up 40-50 points this season as a rookie D; and then who knows what he does.    Yes, that's all hype without a track record.   
My 5th rounder has more of that proven track record.   This year was William Karlsson and Matt Dumba.   Other players include TJ Oshie, Nicklas Backstrom and Drew Doughty etc.   

I would not trade Makar for anyone but in a package for an absolute stud, early in the 2019-20 season, as I can control Makar for 2 years without touching my top 3 keepers (Draisaitl, Eichel, Aho)...  and then I could trade Makar off as a keeper to somebody else if he progresses as expected in 2021-22.   I would not trade Makar near the deadline this year for Burns.... let alone throw in a 5th on top of it.   

I would only do this trade in October and for first round level talent.       You also are aware how hard I tried to get Kucherov :)

There are still hours for anybody to voice objections.

 

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I feel the same way. Honestly I don’t think it’s a problem of value, if this was a deal later in the season where he already knows his team can’t compete then I’m fine with it, my problem is that there was a trade for his best player before the season started for an unknown commodity (Makar not the pick) and something that won’t help this season. I dont see the fair value in that for 2019-2020.


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7 minutes ago, krunko7 said:

I feel the same way. Honestly I don’t think it’s a problem of value, if this was a deal later in the season where he already knows his team can’t compete then I’m fine with it, my problem is that there was a trade for his best player before the season started for an unknown commodity (Makar not the pick) and something that won’t help this season. I dont see the fair value in that for 2019-2020.

For the 2019-20 season, it is absolutely not a fair trade and this would be vetoed.  You simply can't trade Makar for Burns.

Last season, at Thanksgiving, I threw in the towel and traded Alexander Ovechkin, Jonathan Toews and my 2019 1st round pick (Tyler Seguin) for Jack Eichel.
I'm not sure if we need an official "allowed to cut bait" on the season deadline for long-standing GMs...  LOTCB has been in this league for 15 years; so it is fully expected that he plans on seeing it through and not just recklessly trading his roster.
 

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So a couple bullet point thoughts:

- I agree the value is there if this trade takes place at the deadline, or even in December or January.  A half or quarter of a season of Burns for a proven rookie commodity like Makar makes this more agreeable.  But a FULL season of a top tier player for a completely unproven prospect and negligible pick (that won't get you a keeper eligible player) just doesn't seem quite there as far as value is concerned.  Makar certainly has the hype but, again, he's proven nothing and could end up not being worth the rookie keeper slot.

- In a more general sense.. not telling anyone how to play the game, but if you're looking to sell off a top tier guy it'd be in your best interest to let the entire league know explicitly.  Had a message like "Burns is available, send me a message" been posted I think the bidding war for his services would've vastly exceeded the current return.  I mean I can tell you right now that there are probably at least two teams that would've offered something worth arguably more than that.  

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5 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

So a couple bullet point thoughts:

- I agree the value is there if this trade takes place at the deadline, or even in December or January.  A half or quarter of a season of Burns for a proven rookie commodity like Makar makes this more agreeable.  But a FULL season of a top tier player for a completely unproven prospect and negligible pick (that won't get you a keeper eligible player) just doesn't seem quite there as far as value is concerned.  Makar certainly has the hype but, again, he's proven nothing and could end up not being worth the rookie keeper slot.

- In a more general sense.. not telling anyone how to play the game, but if you're looking to sell off a top tier guy it'd be in your best interest to let the entire league know explicitly.  Had a message like "Burns is available, send me a message" been posted I think the bidding war for his services would've vastly exceeded the current return.  I mean I can tell you right now that there are probably at least two teams that would've offered something worth arguably more than that.  

He did post in the app that he was selling for next season...  which is what led me to send my offer (and we had a lot of back and fourth counters).
The hype around Makar is a 40/50 point rookie season...  if you believe in his post season last year, and his draft pedigree...  it's not just random "hype".
I also don't view the 5th round as negligible...   I'll gladly add another 5th rounder to my roster....   Nicklas Backstrom (a consistent 70+ scorer) would be a terrific add for my roster. 

Burns is a consistent 60+ since 2014-15...    but that's obviously very valuable as he's a d-man.


If as a league we want to void the trade, that's ok... I just want clear criteria then.  What's the criteria for trading talent for next season then?   That we can apply fairly across the board.

Like I've said, I would not do this trade for 20 games of Burns...  I would only do it early, for 70/80 games.


 

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So a couple bullet point thoughts:
- I agree the value is there if this trade takes place at the deadline, or even in December or January.  A half or quarter of a season of Burns for a proven rookie commodity like Makar makes this more agreeable.  But a FULL season of a top tier player for a completely unproven prospect and negligible pick (that won't get you a keeper eligible player) just doesn't seem quite there as far as value is concerned.  Makar certainly has the hype but, again, he's proven nothing and could end up not being worth the rookie keeper slot.
- In a more general sense.. not telling anyone how to play the game, but if you're looking to sell off a top tier guy it'd be in your best interest to let the entire league know explicitly.  Had a message like "Burns is available, send me a message" been posted I think the bidding war for his services would've vastly exceeded the current return.  I mean I can tell you right now that there are probably at least two teams that would've offered something worth arguably more than that.  

I agree with this 100% if this was January I’d have no problem with this, but 3 of the last 4 years he has over 75 points
He’s the best offensive Dman in the league , was drafted 7th overall & was effectively traded for a 5th pick & a prayer that a prospect becomes a stud
1st round picks have to be worth more than that in the preseason !


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2 hours ago, redruM said:


I agree with this 100% if this was January I’d have no problem with this, but 3 of the last 4 years he has over 75 points
He’s the best offensive Dman in the league , was drafted 7th overall & was effectively traded for a 5th pick & a prayer that a prospect becomes a stud
1st round picks have to be worth more than that in the preseason !


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Yerp I'm with ya.

So, now what?

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On 9/2/2019 at 9:43 PM, aylbert said:

Trades
Trades will no longer be pushed through at the commissioners discretion immediately.    I will allow the full day to allow any and all grievances and to afford ample time to discuss with the parties to ensure that trades are well intended.   As previously stated, this league has been running since 2002, and as such, some GMs are emotionally invested and do not want to see players simply given away.  At the same time, we will not be implementing any sort of trade value chart that dictates the terms of trades or forcing the use of the trade block, etc.

I want things to be as transparent as possible with decisive decisions made with an even and fair hand.     I would recommend putting feelers out if you are looking to trade away top talent or younger keepers with a lot of promise.    Part of the issue we ran into last year was communication, as GMs thinking they could easily offer more if they only knew the player was on the block.       Let other GMs know, and it’s very possible you might get a better return.    

So with the above in mind... I can’t void the trade because it’s a trade you “wouldn’t do”.   There is significant, but uneven, value being sent back to LOTCB...  the difference is the 2020 window.  

This is very similar to the sentiments expressed in the Brad Marchand deal.     In this case LOTCB sent out feelers out there for everyone to see in the app chat...  it was known.   

There is no signs of collusion nor is there an ignorance in value or understanding.   

As I said in the above, we will not be implementing a trade value chart.

With that said: I will void this trade as a one time exception and ask that LOTCB try to compete this season before throwing in the towel.     There will not be an official start date to allow trades looking forward to 2020-21 at the detriment of 2019-20.       However, as it is unusual to throw in the towel at game 1...   it will be left at simply “not now”

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