NJDevs4978 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 7, judging by the Jet board I read I have to say Manta's right, almost NObody wants this damn stadium, first of all there's the tailgating thing as mentioned, plus the traffic issues and the PSL's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I don't know, it just seems like this whole thing is a big non issue. Once it gets built people will start warming up to it. The fan that only goes to 1-2 games a year and watches the rest on TV is not really going to care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Exactly... so why bother??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Exactly... so why bother??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> exactly, people should just stop obstructing this thing getting built. it's not going to effect your day to day lives, plus it'll bring more money into NYC. Cablevision is out to protect there rear end only and not do anything good on behalf of NYC. Going against Johnson and Johnson, the government, and the NFL, I don't think they'll win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 The Stadium is NOT going to bring any money to NYC. In fact most study's confirm the opposite that the city will lose money in building the stadium even in the short run. The stadium is a waste of time and tax payers money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I don't know, it just seems like this whole thing is a big non issue. Once it gets built people will start warming up to it. The fan that only goes to 1-2 games a year and watches the rest on TV is not really going to care <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, they'll care. They will care when they are sitting in traffic 10 Sundays a year. They will care when their kids are in an overcrowded classroom because of funding issues. They will care when they get mugged outside their building because there are not enough cops. They will care when they call the fire department and they have to come from across town because the firehouse up the street was closed. They will care when a water main break floods their street because the city could not afford to replace the 100 year old pipe. They will care when they see their tax bill and the increase they get because of this stadium. The Jets should build it in Queens where it will cost a hell of a lot less. The only thing a stadium in Manhattan has that one in Queens doesn't is a higher price tag. It is an obscene waste of taxpayer money in a city that has its own financial crush. If the Jets were doing it all themselves I would not care, but to shift city funds from services that help people to a palace for the rich is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langs15 Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 LETS GO JESTS!!!! AND THE HOME OF THE..................JETS! Bring on the new stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 There are not enough cops and firefighters because they can't recruit any, doesn't matter how much money they pump into advertising and improving benefits, if people don't want to sign up, they won't sign up. It's like the military. even if this stadium doesn't get built, taxes won't be raised to improve schools or infrastructure, people will be against raising taxes even for something worthy. At least the stadium will create thousands of new jobs, improve business around it, and host enough events in the first 3-4 years to pay for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 No offense 7, but fail to see any logic in your statement. The stadium will not create thousands of jobs, they will produce a few hundred low paying part time jobs. If you improve the area as you suggest you are only canabalizing on other area's of the city, not bringing in new income. The city will not benefit from the stadium at all, especially since there is no demand for Stadium events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj96 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If you look at the surrounding area, it's a hole. There's half-empty, ex-sweatshops and empty lots. The minute the stadium goes in, property values grow. New businesses and developers move in and create a new economic landscape with new buildings and renovations of the old. If you say that the new stadium won't bring in new funds, you need to look at the big picture. The stadium itself won't generate the massive income, the surrounding area will through taxes. The city doesn't necessarily NEED it, but it's definitely beneficial to the growth of the city as a whole. Like I said before, you can take that 600 million and pay for services and schools for a few years... OR you can take that money and create something that will continue to generate revenue for years to come. -Dan (ps - And I do find it a little scary that I'm agreeing with 7 on this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 (edited) The city's share will be over $1B when all is said and done, probably much much higher than that. You can build lots of schools, fix lots of pot holes and old water mains, etc etc etc for $1B. I also doubt you will see this uoshoot of development in that area especially for a Stadium that would be used 10 times a year. If anything it would just shift things around pulling things from another part of the city and have minimal benefits. Get over the fact that you are a Jets fan and look at it from the perspective of the city. It's a bad deal. Edited March 17, 2005 by PeteyNice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Yeah, education is a very, very stupid investment. I have a hard time believing that New York couldn't hire more police if they wanted to. When I was taking my sign-language courses there was one fellow in the courses with me that wanted to be in the police force. He said that he wanted to get on with the RCMP but it was almost impossible. For example, Ottawa lose and gain 100 policemen a year through attrition/hiring. But they recieve 1,000 applications. So this fellow was taking the sign language courses so that he could get a leg up on the competition. The more languages you know.... I can't imagine the Canadian police have that much more salary/benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj96 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 So Giants stadium only has events 16 times a year? You figure how many concerts Giants Stadium gets and add 1/2 to it (Winter events). Plus, if any band had a choice of playing the Meadowlands or NYC, what do you think they would choose? There's so much potential to a stadium in the city. Take a walk around the area and see what's there now, generating basically no revenue. It's a rail-yard, the Javits, a few parking lots and some pretty empty buildings. There's really not much else for a few blocks. -Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 How many bands that could fill a football stadium tour in the winter? Almost none. Any concert it steals from MSG does not count since it is just shifting things around. Just because there is nothing there now is not reason enough to spend $1B just to fill it. The city would be better spending far less and develop the waterfront into a real park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj96 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 It wouldn't be taking much business from the garden, and even if it was, it's going to be 4 times as big, so that's a lot more $$ per year anyway. I don't get the idea that just because the stadium would get the business instead of another venue that that would spell doom for the city. It's going to be the biggest venue in the city, that means more revenue and more going to the city. The other venues will be fine. There's enough business to go around and the event will dictate where they go. You asked that just because it's empty now, does that justify sinking in a ton of money just to fill it. YES! It's some of the most prime real estate in the world and putting in a constant money maker would just make sense. If you look at commercial rentals, the areas around the Javits right now are around $15/sqft.. Go 3 block East and the rents triple. If you add a community center, it will raise rents in the area and that does mean more money for the city. Not to mention the new jobs in the area for the community. Putting the money into schools and services is fine, but the money will run out (quicker than you think). It's not an investment; the stadium is. -Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm still not getting this whole "education is not an investment - but a stadium is". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizDevil30 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 This thread brings back memories of the Newark Arena arguments. Where's Stubbs when you need him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj96 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Education is an expense, not an investment. An investment brings money back. -Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOTCB Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I don't know, it just seems like this whole thing is a big non issue. Once it gets built people will start warming up to it. The fan that only goes to 1-2 games a year and watches the rest on TV is not really going to care <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aren't most Jets fans season ticket holders though? Id bet 60 percent or so go to all the games...I could be dead wrong, i do not have their figures... And as for tailgating, yes EVERYONE does not tailgate, but thinking that tailgating isn't becoming more of a factor in today's NFL is like saying gambling had nothing to do with the NFL's economic boom. But again why would that matter anyway, who really cares what the fans want in this kind of situation, it does not matter one way or the other when it comes to building the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm still not getting this whole "education is not an investment - but a stadium is". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because eductaion doesn't help the billionaires, Don. Improving the quality of education is the finest investment any place can make. This guy just doesn't get it. He is a Jets fan that is allowing his love for his team the cloud his thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 This thread brings back memories of the Newark Arena arguments. Where's Stubbs when you need him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are a few important differences. First and foremost is the total cost of $1B is considerably more than $200M. Also, the money for a West Side Stadium would be taken from other city departments like police, education, housing, etc. while the money for the Newark arena came from a fund that had to be used for economic development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 (edited) What Cablevision is doing is playing on the old heartstrings, suppose this stadium is not being built, would that 600 mil be allocated to the police and schools? no! They say this money COULD go here, or could go there, but it never seems to end up there. So why is taxpayer money going to be used to build this stadium, because there's a bigger, stronger movement to build this thing. Really taxpayers don't want to be bothered with schools or stadiums, and Cablevision doesn't give a damn either. what they're doing is pointing out our own faults in prioritizing things, the person who takes the economic squeeze (cablevision) is always going to come out in favor of the little guy. It's not a choice between the stadium and schools/nypd, it's a choice between the stadium and nothing, and right now the stadium has too much backing to stop it. Edited March 17, 2005 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Aren't most Jets fans season ticket holders though? Id bet 60 percent or so go to all the games...I could be dead wrong, i do not have their figures...And as for tailgating, yes EVERYONE does not tailgate, but thinking that tailgating isn't becoming more of a factor in today's NFL is like saying gambling had nothing to do with the NFL's economic boom. But again why would that matter anyway, who really cares what the fans want in this kind of situation, it does not matter one way or the other when it comes to building the stadium. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let's ask Ira from Staten Island what he thinks. (Actually I could since he lives one village over). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyNice Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 What Cablevision is doing is playing on the old heartstrings, suppose this stadium is not being built, would that 600 mil be allocated to the police and schools? no! They say this money COULD go here, or could go there, but it never seems to end up there. So why is taxpayer money going to be used to build this stadium, because there's a bigger, stronger movement to build this thing. Really taxpayers don't want to be bothered with schools or stadiums, and Cablevision doesn't give a damn either. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why not? Do you have any idea what the city would be doing with it? No! If I had kids, I would be VERY concerned with schools. In fact they would be among the top things I concern myself with. Paying billionaires a billion dollars to take over some of the most desireable real estate left in Manhattan is simply irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 It won't happen regardless. Suppose Bloomberg says he's going to raise taxes for XYZ, nobody would believe him, nobody would support it, nobody trusts that money will be spent properly. And they have there own financial worries. People don't like there taxes going up even for worthwhile ventures. but your heart is in the right place, education does come before sports, but to the politicians, revenue trumps everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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