NJDevs4978 Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 I've just about seen enough of Thole I feel bad for Bay. Don't know what happened to his ability to hit a baseball. Seems like a nice guy, works hard. But he's pretty much turned into Francoeur at his worst. I understand Citi has hurt him some...but it's not all the work of Citi Field. Even Francoeur could get a HR occasionally (and the scary part is he's actually doing well in KC this year). If something's off with Bay's swing you'd think someone - whether it's Bay or two different hitting coaches - could have made that adjustment by now. And you'd also think mental issues wouldn't be a problem considering Bay played in Boston and had to replace Manny, unless it's just mental issues with the park but this has gone on too long to attribute it to just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njskaguy33 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Combine the fact Reyes is great for position and generally has played good defense, and you can see why hes so beloved. And if you don't value positional differences, then, well, I can't say much to you other than you should really change your thinking. Sorry for the late quote as I've catching up on the thread, but I was wondering if you could explain positional differences when it comes to offense. Just genuinely curious why where a guy plays defense would matter offensively. Again, not being sarcastic, just genuinely curious as I'm about as casual of a baseball fan as it gets. I just realized they got rid of Saves for relievers and now call them Holds...that's how out of touch I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Dose Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 What nmig is talking about is that different defensive positions come with different offensive expectations. For example, if a guy is really good at hitting but crummy with a mitt on his hand, then he must play first base (which I can say is not always easy in its own right) or DH in the AL. All poor defensive players end up at these positions, thus they must be great hitters to rise above their competition. CF, 2B, C and especially SS are positions where good defense is crucial. Since fewer players can play these spots, there are fewer good hitters. So Reyes' offense coming from a player that plays SS, and plays it pretty darn well, is higher value than identical offense coming from a LF or 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) I really don't know whats up with Bay. The walks and strikeouts are about what you expect, but the power just hasn't been there.... at all. I know hes getting older and his best years are behind him in all likelihood, but jeez, I didn't expect such a major drop-off in power. The power drop-off is George Foster-esque, but even worse. I still think there is something left though. Its just hard for me to believe he went from a perennial 30+ HR/year hitter to a guy lucky to hit 10. NJDevs - Francoeur got off to his typical hot start but has since cooled down. Hes OPS'ing .729 in May with a .303 OBP. The real Frenchy is beginning to show up. Edited May 22, 2011 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) Sorry for the late quote as I've catching up on the thread, but I was wondering if you could explain positional differences when it comes to offense. Just genuinely curious why where a guy plays defense would matter offensively. Again, not being sarcastic, just genuinely curious as I'm about as casual of a baseball fan as it gets. I just realized they got rid of Saves for relievers and now call them Holds...that's how out of touch I am The concept is easy enough to understand. Different positions on the field require different skills to play, and some are inherently more difficult than others. Catcher is harder to play than left field, and shortstop is harder to play than first base. We can easily accept an argument for accepting less production out of certain positions as an acknowledgment that the pool of players who can adequately play said position is small. Not convinced? Observe pitchers batting in the National League and see if they’re held to the same standard as the position players. Heres a perfect article that covers it: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/misc/war/positional-adjustment/ It also goes into how much positions should be adjusted and why, etc. Edited May 22, 2011 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I really don't know whats up with Bay. The walks and strikeouts are about what you expect, but the power just hasn't been there.... at all. I know hes getting older and his best years are behind him in all likelihood, but jeez, I didn't expect such a major drop-off in power. The power drop-off is George Foster-esque, but even worse. I still think there is something left though. Its just hard for me to believe he went from a perennial 30+ HR/year hitter to a guy lucky to hit 10. NJDevs - Francoeur got off to his typical hot start but has since cooled down. Hes OPS'ing .729 in May with a .303 OBP. The real Frenchy is beginning to show up. It gets even worse since May 5 (15 GP): 12-for-56, .214 BA, .286 OB%, 0 HRs, 3 RBI, 4 BB, 13 K Every year Frenchy has allegedly learned something that will make him a better player, and every year by mid-May Frenchy goes back to being same ol' Frenchy. As for Bay...wow. The Met curse claims another player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) god dammit terry fvcking collins Sure you can start the inning with Pelfrey, but Beato should've been ready in the pen as soon as Pelfrey collapsed. He collapsed right away with a single through the wickets. But Collins kept him in to face Dickerson (walk) kept him in to drill cervelli trying to BUNT, kept him in to serve a meatball to jeter. Collins lost this game by not being prepared. also hope the mets take a good look at what a clutch base hit with bases loaded looks like Edited May 22, 2011 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Nice going Terry...not much point in having a bullpen that's pitching well if you're not going to go to them until AFTER the damage has been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) collins stupidity cost us this game. how the hell are you not prepared with somebody throwing behind pelfrey to start the inning. We all know Pelfrey has mental issues and could lose it at a moments notice. As soon as that ball goes through Mike's legs to start the inning you yank him. He was still thinking about it pitching to dickerson. Edited May 22, 2011 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 And of course Alex Rodriguez with the game winning cheap dribbler. Would be nice to get 1 fvcking break every once in a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Oh well...it's coming apart now. At least they didn't get swept. Maybe they would've lost this one anyway, but Collins didn't really put his team in a position to win with the way he handled Pelfrey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 You really couldn't let Beato pitch to Gardner? Yankees have more hits in this inning alone with the bases loaded than the Mets have with the bases loaded all season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 At least I picked the right game to go to Couldn't have expected more than one with the state of our offense but geez they had a chance to really up the Yankee angst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Pride 26 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 What a depressing game to go to, as a Met fan, when you see them strand runners like that, you know its just a matter of time until they blow it. I personally did not like Pelfrey at all today, he was in trouble all day -- hard hit balls all over the place. After getting through the sixth inning I was hoping they would take him out with a pretty good result. How is no one up in the bullpen to start the seventh?! The thing that was most frustrating was that it was the bottom of the order after going through the heart in the sixth. They couldn't get a timely hit to save their lives either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Pelfrey stinks on the road and against lefties. Its nothing new, and its probably never going to change. Hes not an abomination to have in the rotation by any means, and theres something to be said for durability to give you ~200 innings, but they really should have sold high in the offseason. Edited May 23, 2011 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Sure you can start the inning with Pelfrey, but Beato should've been ready in the pen as soon as Pelfrey collapsed. He collapsed right away with a single through the wickets. But Collins kept him in to face Dickerson (walk) kept him in to drill cervelli trying to BUNT, kept him in to serve a meatball to jeter. The odd thing was Collins was getting impatient with Dickey Friday to the nth degree and had Beato warming in the fifth inning of a 1-1 game when they got two runners on with a lousy infield hit and an error. If he was that much on red alert with Pelfrey (who he should be worried about after a couple of baserunners) maybe the inning doesn't blow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 At least I picked the right game to go to Couldn't have expected more than one with the state of our offense but geez they had a chance to really up the Yankee angst. The frustrating thing was that the Mets had two-run leads in both Game 2 and Game 3...not that that fact should've locked those games up for the Mets, but still makes those losses a little more bitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Pelfrey stinks on the road and against lefties. Its nothing new, and its probably never going to change. Hes not an abomination to have in the rotation by any means, and theres something to be said for durability to give you ~200 innings, but they really should have sold high in the offseason. Been through this before...easy to say that now, that the Mets should have traded him, but it's like I said, the Mets needed someone to start ballgames. Pelfrey is what he is: a decent #4 or #5, maybe a #3 in a good year, and unfortunately for him he's being asked to be more than that. You saw what the Mets had to work with going into the season (basically a lot of "ifs")...they really couldn't afford to trade Pelfrey away, and based off the year he had last season, I could understand why they were hoping for the best, hoping he might be able to turn in a similar campaign to last year. And even if they DID trade Pelf, would the return have been anything that great? Other GMs are likely aware of Pelfrey's road and lefty woes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) You might want to check out the Joe Saunders trade between the DBacks and Angels last year. Of course Pelf was/is counted on as a key cog of the rotation. Okay. They could have dealt him for some decent prospects (or more if they got lucky like the Angels did) and used his ~S4M salary to sign someone who is just as useful, like Jeff Francis (who signed for $2M). Also, its a rebuilding season; if worse came to worst, you could just slot in a AAA-type 5th starter and it wouldn't be the end of the world. And no, I'm not just saying this now because Pelfrey has struggled. I really never realized his home/road and lefty/righty splits until late spring-ish*. If I noticed that in the winter I would have absolutely advocated dealing him when he put up career numbers. * - just for proof, here is the article I wrote about it on Amazin' Avenue - http://www.amazinavenue.com/2011/3/22/2066740/what-is-mike-pelfrey - dated March 22nd. Edited May 23, 2011 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Okay, forget Pelfrey and everything now..... Did anyone see these quotes from Fred Wilpon?! ¶ On Jose Reyes, the often-injured shortstop with an expiring contract: “He thinks he’s going to get Carl Crawford money. He’s had everything wrong with him. He won’t get it.”¶ On David Wright, the centerpiece third baseman: “A really good kid. A very good player. Not a superstar.” ¶ On Carlos Beltran, who starred for Houston in the 2004 playoffs before signing a seven-year, $119 million deal with the Mets: We had some dummy in New York, Wilpon says, referring to himself, “who paid him based on that one series. He’s 65 to 70 percent of what he was.” A rally expires, during which Wilpon refers to his team with an expletive and, again, with the word lousy. He says the team is “snakebitten” and essentially agrees when Toobin suggests the Mets could be cursed. “He gave sort of a half laugh,” Toobin writes, “and said, ‘You mean’ — and then pantomimed a checked swing of the bat.” http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/30/110530fa_fact_toobin Insane. I normally stick up for ownership but that's just... inexcusable. Wow. Thank God its the beginning of the end for this a$$hole. Edited May 23, 2011 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Dose Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Okay, forget Pelfrey and everything now..... Did anyone see these quotes from Fred Wilpon?! If you don't have something nice to say. . . Yeah, he'd be better off just keeping quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Its amazing. Is he right about Wright? Sure. I'm a Wright apologist but I will even admit hes no longer a superstar by any means. However, its still incredibly stupid and unprofessional to come out and say it. And there is no excuse for those other quotes, which are only about 1000x more asinine. What a jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 lol at least George had some method to his madness, this is just mad I mean it's not like he's terribly off on Wright, he's probably wrong that Reyes won't get crazy money but the quotes on Beltran are just stupid. It's not like he's been a total washout like Bay, or even Pedro who was more or less useless his last two and a half years here when we could have used him to get over the top. And to say any of it at all publicly when those players are still under contract to you is just WFAN-caller like goofiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Even if there's a degree of truth in what Wilpon says, he can't say it...especially when most of your fanbase thinks you're a clown already and have no business owning the team. Sorry Fred, but you don't come off as the second coming of George Steinbrenner...you come off as a bumbling amateur yet AGAIN. Look in the mirror Freddy...you and your son are what curse the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) I hope the Mets are taking notes with the way the Cubs and Yankees are able to get hits wih runners in scoring position and bases loaded. Hope the Wilpon comments didn't rip the heart out of this team Edited May 25, 2011 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.